Building my first HO DCC layout. Track laying 90% completed. Turnouts are Peco and Walthers electrofrogs. Testing engines now.
I have a 4-axel switcher that seems to stop running, when it goes over the electrofrog section of many of my turnouts. It just stops. Lights go off, sounds go off. If I press down sligtly on the engine it get power back. when I release this slight pressure, it loses power again. If I slide the engine forward or back to clear the frog, I get power back. It's a new engine running on new track.
What could be causing this engine to lose power in the turnouts?
I have some other issues with some of my 6-axel engines derailing when they go through these frogs. ???
What track code? Ballasted or not? Insulated joiners at the frog end? Points making good contact with the stock rail? Wheels in gauge? The derailing locomotives picking the frog point or climbing out of the gaurd rail or the switch point? Possible reverse curve at the turnout?
Many things can be a contributing factor. Some sluething is needed.
I bet the wheels are getting lifted up off the rail because the plastic between the rails is too high. Take a file or emery board and grind the plastic between the rails down a bit (a little bit at a time). I have had to do this to a few of my Walthers turnouts.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
It is common for RTR turnouts to have a bit of a hump in them from the assembly process. Set one down on a flat surface and take a look. Have the frogs been spiked down? That works for me with ME and Shinohara turnoiuts. Can you run a straightedge across the top of the rail from end to end without there being a hump in the middle?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Clean the contact point where the switch points touch the stock rails. Clean both the points and the outside rail where they touch when the turnout is thrown.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
On my 4-axel switcher it happens on some of the Peco electrofrog (#5 & #6) and Walthers curved #7 turnouts. I do have a multimeter to check continuity and have done so with every wiring and electrofrog testing. My F7 A/B engine will jurk when going though the end of one of the Walthers curved turnouts where the engine lights will go off.
I will check out the link you sent.
I will recheck for flatness in the derailing areas. Most seem to happen then the wheels go over the plastic areas in the electrofrogs. It's like it raised the wheels up and cause them to derail.
Code 83, Peco flex track. Not ballasted yet. Insulated joiners at the frogs, yes. Derailing.. yes they seems to climb out of the guard rail.
Sluething... yes.
Filing down the plastic between the rails.... I will do that.
If it is the one four-axle switcher more than any other locomotive, I would be looking hard at the electrical pick-up system of that locomotive, especially if pushing down on it "fixes" the problem.
As far as the six axle locmotives derailing... I have more trouble with six axle locomotives in turnouts than four axle models. These are much more sensitive to vertical curves in the turnout.
You might have two unrelated problems.
I have reduced my six-axle locomotive fleet to four. One Trainmaster, an SD-7, and a pair of Alco PA-1s.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Mike-
I will check this out. I will try some spike where I think it will help.
Mark R. Clean the contact point where the switch points touch the stock rails. Clean both the points and the outside rail where they touch when the turnout is thrown. Mark.
I will take a closer look at this and do some cleaning, even though these are all brand new turnouts.
SeeYou190 If it is the one four-axle switcher more than any other locomotive, I would be looking hard at the electrical pick-up system of that locomotive, especially if pushing down on it "fixes" the problem. As far as the six axle locmotives derailing... I have more trouble with six axle locomotives in turnouts than four axle models. These are much more sensitive to vertical curves in the turnout. You might have two unrelated problems. I have reduced my six-axle locomotive fleet to four. One Trainmaster, an SD-7, and a pair of Alco PA-1s. -Kevin
That was my thought. This engine acts like it's not getting a good power connection. I will look into this. Though I haven't opened up any of my engines. They are also all brand new.
Thanks ya'll. And I'm not from the South. Well, SoCA. I've got my Saturday work cut out for me.
Do I need anything to check the actual voltage at my track???
kenbenDo I need anything to check the actual voltage at my track???
I run DC, this might not work with DCC.
I use a bunch of 12 volt bulbs with 6" leads that all have alligator clips on them. I attach these all over the place, turn on power, and test everything out. I purchased these at Sky Craft Parts in Orlando, but normal automotive bulbs will work, but draw more current.
I use power-routing through the turnouts, so having a couple dozen inexpensive test lights really speeds everything up for me.
You can use a voltmeter. Harbor Freight sells dirt-cheap models. I use high-end Fluke meters becuase I used them at work, so I have them on hand.
I prefer test lights, you get an instant result that cannot be misinterpretted.
LastspikemikeI've not seen a Peco turnout with this type of defect...
I wouldn't call if a defect, it more a feature than a bug. People often spike a RTR turnout just at the ends, thinking this will avoid creating any issues with the points dragging (or something like that.) In fact, what this opportunity presents is to allow the user to adjust things by spiking things to level, since roadbed often isn't.
kenben,
You can use a regular multimeter to check for the presence of DCC. Turn the meter to measure AC. DCC isn't AC, but the AC setting will pick up various parts of the square waveform. You'll see readings both above and below whatever voltage your command station is set to and these will be changing as you measure. However, this tells you what you usually need to know, Is DCC present?
I agree with Brent on this one.
I solved the same problem by filing down the top of the plastic frogs.
Very careful watching showed the locomotive slightly lifting going over the turnouts. Filing down the plastic allowed the wheels to remain in contact with the track.
York1 John
York1 I agree with Brent on this one. I solved the same problem by filing down the the top of the plastic frogs. Very careful watching showed the locomotive slightly lifting going over the turnouts. Filing down the plastic allowed the wheels to remain in contact with the track.
I solved the same problem by filing down the the top of the plastic frogs.
GREAT POINT! I'll be performing these tasking today. Thanks again.
I should mention that it wasn't the top of the frog, but where the plastic is at the bottom of the rail, where the wheel flange hits the plastic.
One thing that has not been asked is if you are sure this is a stall, simple loss of posts to the engine, or is it a short circuit? When the engine stops, is there still power elsewhere? You can use a meter, a light bulb, an illuminated passenger car or a locomotive with a headlight on in DCC.
Peco turnouts on my layout have very small separation between the frog rails, and engines with wide wheels will bridge the gap and cause a short. That problem is solved with a bit of clear or black nail polish on the frog.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Still having problems with by 6-axel ScaleTrains engines going through turnouts. This EMD SD40T-2 engine (out-of-the-box) running at speed 7 (on my NCE Power Cab) will derail 50% of the time through this Peco #6 turnout. The main line is to the right. The straight track on the left is a very short spur. But the front 3-axel truck will jump over the point rail on the left (in this photo) and end up just beyond the frog in the middle of the trunout and shorting out.
Running at speed 6 or below it dose not derail. This same engin also comes off the rails in one of my Walthers curved turnouts.
I've tried to file down the plastic sections in the frogs. It appears they are low enought to where the wheels do not raise up through the frogs. But derails still happening.
My 4-axel F7 and other 4-axel engines run fine through all the turn outs.
????
Don't know why my photos do not show up. ???
kenbenDon't know why my photos do not show up. ???
Don't know if this will show up, but when I 'inspect element" this is the link for your picture; That is a link to nothing.
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You need to read the sticky and follow the directions. No cheating allowed
How to post photos
Does the point rail touch the stock rail or is there a gap?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddyDoes the point rail touch the stock rail or is there a gap?
Yes it does. I even increased the tention. So it seems it's just rolling over the point rail, though it is pulling to the left a bit before rolling over it. The straightaway and turnout are on a slight downgrade hill, so the train is going "downhill".
Here's that photo.
It appears there may be a slight kink on the diverging side, possibly because the first tie on the track after the turnout interferes witht he tie next to it on the straight side.
Is the turnout level side to side? Being on a grade along the length of the turnout is ok, but tilted to one side or the other is not.
Have you checked the wheel guage on the offending locos?
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerHave you checked the wheel guage on the offending locos?
All wheels are in gage. I'll be checking the level and fixing that kink.
Thanks.
kenbenThis EMD SD40T-2 engine (out-of-the-box) running at speed 7 (on my NCE Power Cab) will derail 50% of the time through this Peco #6 turnout. The main line is to the right. The straight track on the left is a very short spur. But the front 3-axel truck will jump over the point rail on the left (in this photo) and end up just beyond the frog in the middle of the trunout and shorting out.
They way I read this is the problem starts at the points, and the kink, while undesirable, is not the problem, nor is the frog.
In firefox, when I clicked on your picture to enlarge it, nothing happened. I copied the image location http://cdn.iplayerhd.com/data/c/6d5cb54c.jpg and tried to open that in a new tab, still nothing. In chrome it downloaded the picture so I could see the kink that everyone else saw.
edit I did not see it was downloading the picture. I don't know how that happens either.This part is out of focus, and maybe I'm being fooled by the rail joiners, but something doesn't look right where the oncoming track joins the turnout. Especially the right rail, as one looks at the picture.
BigDaddy In firefox, when I clicked on your picture to enlarge it, nothing happened. I copied the image location http://cdn.iplayerhd.com/data/c/6d5cb54c.jpg and tried to open that in a new tab, still nothing. In chrome it downloaded the picture so I could see the kink that everyone else saw. Your photo hosting site is a video hosting site and it should work in firefox. I have no clue what is happening with the photo link.
Your photo hosting site is a video hosting site and it should work in firefox. I have no clue what is happening with the photo link.
Peter you are right, I didn't see that was happening, and have multiple copies of it. I certainly don't wan to download every pic in the forum. Above post edited.
BigDaddy Peter you are right, I didn't see that was happening, and have multiple copies of it. I certainly don't wan to download every pic in the forum. Above post edited.
If you go into your Firefox options, you can change it so that file type opens instead of saves.
Peter