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Downgrade From DCC to DCC Ready

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  • Member since
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  • 79 posts
Posted by FlyingScotaman on Monday, June 15, 2020 7:24 AM

True, Randy. The problem being if it's say modern GE six axle in UP colours there are plenty of alternatives. If it's a N&W A class you're after it's them or go hungry.

Or I suppose pay 3k for an elusive brass model.

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, June 15, 2020 7:19 AM

 They come from a tinplate/hi-rail background, same as that 'other' company, and have a similar attitude of superiority when it comes to HO scale models as well. Our way is best - so everything comes with sound, a proprietary system which at least is fully DCC compatible , unlike the 'other' guy. But like the 'other' guy, they don;t offer it as a retrofit for those who would want to convert other brands of locos to use their system. They expect you to buy only their locos, just like it was back in the hi-rail days. You either bought Lionel or you bought American Flyer, there really was no middle ground. That attitude didn't last 5 minutes, even in the early days of HO.

                                             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by FlyingScotaman on Monday, June 15, 2020 6:13 AM

SeeYou190

The response caught me off guard. They suggested I do not buy their product at all.

So I didn't.

-Kevin

 

That doesn't surprise me - well it does a bit to be honest - I'm just glad to see that I'm not the only one here who has had a supercilious response from BLI. I thought it was me who was being singled out.

I know nearly all of you fellas will be into DCC with sound but I for one liked it about 10 years ago when they'd offer the models as DCC ready too, that way both markets were catered for and the Luddites like me weren't paying the extra hundo or so for the pleasure of a heavier tender and the peril of an electronics issue that'll strand the locomotive as is the case here.

Another market they are ignoring in this respect - I know the DC guys are getting thin on the ground - are those who will just display the models. They are such high quality they must make up a reasonable proportion of their market and again they have no need for the complexity and price.

If I was going to venture into the DCC world from what I have read I would probably rather just be allowed to chose my own brand and type of decoder in any case. That may be from them or otherwise. 

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Posted by FlyingScotaman on Monday, June 15, 2020 6:08 AM

Ooops - doubled up!

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Posted by FlyingScotaman on Monday, June 15, 2020 6:07 AM
Thanks for all the advice, diagrams and everything else everyone!
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Posted by FlyingScotaman on Monday, June 15, 2020 6:05 AM

rrinker

 Since they nicely didn;t use standard color code on the wires, you'll have to use a meter to figure out which wire on the small board is which. Two will be track pickup, 2 will be the motor, 2 will be the headlight. There may also bee other track pickups if the tender also picks up power.

 The right rail and one motor wire go together, the left rail and the other motor wire go together. Leave off the LEDs. If the loco runs backwards, swap the motor wires. Now at least it runs.

 For the headlight, you will need a resistor. Unless you run the loco like a slot car, 470 ohms is probably good. That connect to one LED wire, and the other side of the resistor goes to one track pickup. The other LED wire goes to the other track wire. If it lights up in reverse instead of forward, swap the LED wires.

 The backup light is going to be gone when you remove the MRC decoder board, so you'll have to unsolder it, or get another LED and figure out how to attach it by the backup light lens in the tender, and use a 470 ohm resistor and wire it up like the headlight. If it lights in forward, swap the LED wires.

                                             --Randy

 

 

Thanks for that excellent explanation, Randy. It's a huge help.

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Posted by UpNorth on Saturday, June 13, 2020 5:37 PM

They were DC with sound that had a DCC Ready capability via an NMRA 8opin medium plug.  The sound portion was DCC all ready, adding a DCC motor decoder was an option.  Only issue was no one was  familliar at working with dual decoders and that caused much frustration.

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Posted by Wolf359 on Saturday, June 13, 2020 3:35 PM

rrinker

 

 The sort of tried, in the worst possible way, with those awful Blueline locos.

 

I don't have any BLI engines right now, so I'm not familiar with the Blueline series. What went wrong with them?

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, June 13, 2020 3:03 PM

Wolf359

 

 
SeeYou190

I was considering purchasing a BLI NORFOLK AND WESTERN class A 2-6-6-4, but it was available DCC only.

I contacted BLI, and asked if there was a service plug in the box, or available for purchase, to unplug the decoder and convert the model to "DCC Ready" operation as you want to do.

The response caught me off guard. They suggested I do not buy their product at all.

So I didn't.

-Kevin

 

 

 

That's weird. You'd think they'd have that option given the fact that not everyone wants DCC, not everyone wants the stock decoder, and decoders like any other electronic device, can and do go bad on occasion. Not to mention the prices that some of their product go for. You'd also think they would want new customers. That's something I like about Bachmann. They make a lot of their products with the option to go either way. I was given a brand new Bachmann GS4 that was DCC for Christmas this past year, and it came with a set of the metal "U" shaped dummy plugs to convert to DCC ready if one chose to do so, so that's what I did.

 

 The sort of tried, in the worst possible way, with those awful Blueline locos. Using dual decoders is just a complete pain. SO based on the lack of success, it appears they've simply decided that means 100% DCC is the way to be, and there they are. Enough people buy them, so they aren;t completely wrong. They've only made one loco that interested me, and it came with an ESU decoder, not their own thing, so I'm happy with it.

                                                       --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    February 2008
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Posted by UpNorth on Saturday, June 13, 2020 2:51 PM

Athearn sells this DC - 21pin mother board you could use (if it fits) in preparation for a 21 pin decoder.  For 21$ it is DCC ready indicating it runs DC.  Could not find any related documents.

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG67140

Marc

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Posted by Wolf359 on Saturday, June 13, 2020 1:12 PM

SeeYou190

I was considering purchasing a BLI NORFOLK AND WESTERN class A 2-6-6-4, but it was available DCC only.

I contacted BLI, and asked if there was a service plug in the box, or available for purchase, to unplug the decoder and convert the model to "DCC Ready" operation as you want to do.

The response caught me off guard. They suggested I do not buy their product at all.

So I didn't.

-Kevin

 

That's weird. You'd think they'd have that option given the fact that not everyone wants DCC, not everyone wants the stock decoder, and decoders like any other electronic device, can and do go bad on occasion. Not to mention the prices that some of their product go for. You'd also think they would want new customers. That's something I like about Bachmann. They make a lot of their products with the option to go either way. I was given a brand new Bachmann GS4 that was DCC for Christmas this past year, and it came with a set of the metal "U" shaped dummy plugs to convert to DCC ready if one chose to do so, so that's what I did.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:35 AM

I was considering purchasing a BLI NORFOLK AND WESTERN class A 2-6-6-4, but it was available DCC only.

I contacted BLI, and asked if there was a service plug in the box, or available for purchase, to unplug the decoder and convert the model to "DCC Ready" operation as you want to do.

The response caught me off guard. They suggested I do not buy their product at all.

So I didn't.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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    November 2013
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Posted by snjroy on Saturday, June 13, 2020 7:48 AM

My vote would be to hardwire a new decoder with sound that will run on DC. You will be able to maintain your lights. I would go for a better brand then MRC given the type of loco. It will also maintain the loco's value, if that matters.

Simon

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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, June 10, 2020 7:42 AM

 Only thing is, 1K is too much for standard DC operation. They won't light up until the loco is moving at a pretty good clip, unless it's got a bad motor that needs more than half throttle to start moving. 

470 ohm will still be below most LED limits at full throttle (12V), which is why I said unless you run trains like slot cars...  That will allow the LED to light up at a lower speed.

                                                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by jjdamnit on Tuesday, June 9, 2020 8:07 PM

Hello all,

Check out this site for LED supplies and information.

From the moreLEDS.com site:

====================================================

LEDs for model railroaders:

*******************************************************************

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, June 9, 2020 9:00 AM

 Since they nicely didn;t use standard color code on the wires, you'll have to use a meter to figure out which wire on the small board is which. Two will be track pickup, 2 will be the motor, 2 will be the headlight. There may also bee other track pickups if the tender also picks up power.

 The right rail and one motor wire go together, the left rail and the other motor wire go together. Leave off the LEDs. If the loco runs backwards, swap the motor wires. Now at least it runs.

 For the headlight, you will need a resistor. Unless you run the loco like a slot car, 470 ohms is probably good. That connect to one LED wire, and the other side of the resistor goes to one track pickup. The other LED wire goes to the other track wire. If it lights up in reverse instead of forward, swap the LED wires.

 The backup light is going to be gone when you remove the MRC decoder board, so you'll have to unsolder it, or get another LED and figure out how to attach it by the backup light lens in the tender, and use a 470 ohm resistor and wire it up like the headlight. If it lights in forward, swap the LED wires.

                                             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    May 2019
  • 79 posts
Posted by FlyingScotaman on Monday, June 8, 2020 1:18 PM

Thanks Wolf I'll give that a try.

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Posted by Wolf359 on Monday, June 8, 2020 1:10 PM

I run DC as well, so I know very little about DCC and probably can't be of much help, but have you tried contacting Athearn about it? Maybe they'll have a suggestion. Here's a link to their contact page: http://www.athearn.com/About/Contact.aspx

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Posted by FlyingScotaman on Monday, June 8, 2020 12:58 PM

No Mel,

No socket unfortunately. I didn't think there was. The red wire was attached to the speakers which were amputated long long ago.

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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, June 8, 2020 12:39 PM

Thanks for the pictures, unfortunately that didn’t help me any at all.  I was thinking along the same lines as Stix but I don’t think there is a socket.

The red wire looks like an antenna, is the decoder an MRC wireless?



Mel



 
My Model Railroad  
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

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Posted by FlyingScotaman on Monday, June 8, 2020 12:13 PM

It's been a looooong time since I loked inside but I'm sure it's hardwired in. Let me post some pics.

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Posted by wjstix on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:57 AM

FlyingScotaman
I'd like to convert it to straight DC but I imagine that the LED lighting isn't going to make that possible (or is it?). I'm thinking that it will need to have the type of board in it that would be classed as DCC ready.

Green "lightboards" were first added to engines to control the lights, allowing the use of LEDs and making the lights change with the engine's direction. Later, DCC decoder receptacles were added to lightboards to make it easier to convert the engine to DCC. If your engine has a lightboard, removing the bad decoder and plugging in the dummy plug that would have originally been there - if you have it - would convert it back to DC.

Stix
  • Member since
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Posted by RR_Mel on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:43 AM

Not having any idea what your locomotive looks like on the decoder wiring, does the MRC plug in, if so what socket does it use?



Mel


 
My Model Railroad  
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 

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Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:38 AM

Have you considered removing the bad decoder and replacing it with a dual mode decoder that will run on either DC or DCC?  That might give you the light control you want without having to do a lot of wiring.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Downgrade From DCC to DCC Ready
Posted by FlyingScotaman on Monday, June 8, 2020 11:29 AM

I know this will seem bizzare to most here but I'm stuck in the DC rut and I'm not likely to change anytime soon.

My question is: I have n Athearn Big Boy first run and the MRC decoder has finaly given up the ghost, so I'd like to convert it to straight DC but I imagine that the LED lighting isn't going to make that possible (or is it?). I'm thinking that it will need to have the type of board in it that would be classed as DCC ready. Are such things available retail or how otherwise might I achive what I'm looking for?

Any advice greatfully recieved.

Just to recap all I want is forward and back with lights.

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