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Toggle switches with DCC

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Toggle switches with DCC
Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 12:28 PM

Below's a link to a discussion of using a toggle switch to isolate an area on a DCC layout.  I thought to try that for the yard (and possibly other areas).  Should I add a plastic joiner to one rail or two? 

https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php?topic=13544.0;wap2

Thanks!

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Posted by gregc on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 12:44 PM

kasskaboose
Should I add a plastic joiner to one rail or two?  Also, Amaz*n has DPST with four or two pins.  What type is needed?

a double-pole switch would be needed to isolate both rails and therefore plastic joiner (or no joiner) in both rails.

hard to imagine a double pole switch with only 2 pins.   did you mean SPST?

of course, if all you want to do is NOT provide power to a block, you only need to NOT provide power to one rail and therefore would only need an SPST switch and one plaster rail joiner.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by floridaflyer on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 12:56 PM

Agree with greg

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Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 2:04 PM

Greg: thanks for the fast response.  I clarified the original post. 

I plan to get the DPST toggle to isolate a block, so plan to add a plastic joiner or gap BOTH rails.  Once isolated, correct that I would need to get the NCE Cab06 throttle (or similar)?

The wiring cofiguration would be the following: one toggle wire to one buss twice (e.g., red-red; black-black), and one cab wire to one buss twice (e.g, green-red; blue-black)?

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 4:14 PM

 Not sure how getting another throttle has anything to do with the ability to cut the power for the yard?

                                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by gregc on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 4:44 PM

kasskaboose
Once isolated, correct that I would need to get the NCE Cab06 throttle (or similar)?

no.   DCC allows you to independently operate two locos on the same rails.   No need to create blocks with DCC even if using separate cabs (PowerCab and Cab06)

if you have a PowerCab, it can control multiple locos using the "Recall" button to enter/select different locos

i thought the reason for isolating a block was simply to turn off power

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 4:55 PM

Yes, I'm isolating to turn off power and do have a PowerCab.  It can control the entire layout.

 

The additional throttle is to have a 2nd operator work the yard.  I thought to give the yardmaster freedom in doing that.  No free lunches/beers!

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Posted by gregc on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 5:08 PM

kasskaboose
The additional throttle is to have a 2nd operator work the yard.  I thought to give the yardmaster freedom in doing that.

with DCC, to people can use individual cabs, one a PowerCab and the other a Cab06, to control separate locos.   One person could operate a loco on the mainline while a 2nd person can switch cars in a yard

there 's no need to electrically isolate the two areas

am i conflating two separate questions?

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by davidmurray on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 6:08 PM

At our club, we once had 19 people, with 19 throttles, controlling 19 engines.  The only plastic joiners were for a reversing loop.

A single pole\single throw toggle will cut power on the one rail to guarntee that sounds are off, or coach lighting is off while parked.

As long as your locos have different addresses, you could have 24 sitting not moving and 1 under control.

 

David Murray from Oshawa, Ontario Canada
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Posted by kasskaboose on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 7:29 PM

I thought to isolate the yard to prevent a short shutting down the entire layout.  The toggle switch might work, but I should just ensure nothing metal gets on the tracks.  Checking the wiring while adding feeders helps.

19 independent controllers?  Wow!  Talk about the value of communication!

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, May 19, 2020 7:40 PM

kasskaboose
I thought to isolate the yard to prevent a short shutting down the entire layout. The toggle switch might work, but I should just ensure nothing metal gets on the tracks. Checking the wiring while adding feeders helps.

If there is no electricity, there is not going to be a short and you don't need another cab.  However if you want to prevent a short in one place from shutting down the entire layout, then you need power districts and circuit breakers and 2 rail insulation. 

That's important for clubs and layouts that need mulltiple operators.  Not so much for my one man operation.

Ask before you buy, because not all circuit breakers are compatible with all systems.   

You won't need switches if you have circuit breakers, unless you want to turn off the power so Bachmann sound value locos are silent and not consuming electrons.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:05 AM

 In some cases you might want both. The circuit breaker is what keeps a short in one part of the layout from shutting down the whole thing. Having toggles to cut power to certain sections can aid in troubleshooting by isolating sections of the layout, so if you have a short but have taken all rolling stock off the track in the area and it still won't go away, you can kill power. but for that to be truly effective you'd need a toggle for each yard track, not just the entire yard - turning off power to the entire yard wouldn't narrow things down any more than a circuit breaker powering the yard.

 If you have a turntable and roundhouse, that's another place toggles can come in handy. Some sound decoders just start making noise when the power comes on, in many cases, locos in a roundhouse would be dead and not simmering away. So controlling the power to each stall would keep you from having to select every loco and muting it every time you turned on the layout. And it would also prevent you from accidently selecting the wrong address and running a loco through the back wall of the roundhouse, or into the turntable pit.

 But the whole point of DCC is that you can have multiple throttles running multiple trains anywhere on the layout without having to use toggles or other means to select what power source is going to the section of track your train is on. To the point that yes, you do have to pay attention, a Gomez Addams crash is entirely possible with DCC as there is nothing inherent in the system that would prevent two locos from heading right at one another on the same piece of track.

                                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by kasskaboose on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 8:49 AM

Randy and others:

Yes, I DO want to prevent a short with a power district. Since I have the NCE starter set, I'd need NCE's CP6 to serve as a circuit breaker:https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201045719-CP6 Won't a DPST suffice instead of the CP6?

It makes sense to isolate down to the individual track and not just an entire area.  Do many have toggles for each track in the yard?  I can the value of doing that since my hard has quite a few tracks in a confined space.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:24 AM

kasskaboose
Won't a DPST suffice instead of the CP6?

It is a switch, it is not a circuit breaker. 

Is your idea that there is a derailment in the yard, a short, you flip the switch, the Powercab resets, and you can resume running trains in other areas?

Shorts don't fall from the sky, but you can put a pair of pliers on the track or miswire feeders.  Switches don't fix stupid.

Because the Powercab tries to reset itself, bad things can happen if you leave the trains running, there is a derailment, and you are upstairs getting an adult beverage.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by gregc on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 9:52 AM

kasskaboose
It makes sense to isolate down to the individual track and not just an entire area.  Do many have toggles for each track in the yard?

are you considering adding toggles switches to isolate sections of your layout simply to make it easier to isolate and find a short?

it's usually obvious where a short is if there is a derailment.

I know track shorts can sometimes be frustrating if a gap closes, switch points break and short against a stock rail or if a small wire finds it's way between some rails.   But this is infrequent.  Instead of toggle switches, simply disconnecting a bus at a barrier strip, though inconvenient.  Gaping both rails every so often can help 

why are you concerned about yard tracks and not the rest of the layout?

 

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by kasskaboose on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 7:37 PM

The toggle switches are to isolate sections of the layout to find a short. Shorts don't just happen randomly.  It's a matter of paying  attention and not going recklessly through the layout. 

It seems that nothing can substitute for user error.  I won't bother with anything for now.  Perhaps later I can consider a DPST to block off an area. 

Thanks all!

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Posted by kasskaboose on Wednesday, May 20, 2020 7:39 PM

BigDaddy

 

Is your idea that there is a derailment in the yard, a short, you flip the switch, the Powercab resets, and you can resume running trains in other areas?

Shorts don't fall from the sky, but you can put a pair of pliers on the track or miswire feeders.  Switches don't fix stupid.

Because the Powercab tries to reset itself, bad things can happen if you leave the trains running, there is a derailment, and you are upstairs getting an adult beverage.

 

 

Bigdaddy and others,

The toggle switches are to isolate sections of the layout to find a short, as you wrote. Shorts don't just happen randomly.  It's a matter of paying  attention and not going too fast with wiring the layout.

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