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synchronizing brake squeal sound on Loksound 4

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  • Member since
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Posted by trnj on Saturday, May 2, 2020 5:35 PM

Thank ypu, Geroge!

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Posted by olequa on Friday, May 1, 2020 8:14 AM
Great to hear! I was ready to get the entire farm that this was a fixable problem. Glad that you found the magic combination. George
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Posted by trnj on Thursday, April 30, 2020 5:00 PM

Final resolution:  CV64 = 60; CV65 = 20.  Good most of the time.  Done!

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Posted by trnj on Thursday, April 30, 2020 11:42 AM

By the way, with CV 2 at 1, the engine moves but a bit too slowly so I set it at 2.  

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Posted by trnj on Thursday, April 30, 2020 11:40 AM

Sorry, George.  I misspoke.  I set the spped table on each of my engines so that the speed steps correspond to the SMPH.  So at step 10 (with 28 steps) = 10 SMPH.

I have indeed tried several settings for both CV's with not much improvement.  I think I will do a default reset after saving my CV settings to see if that helps.  Then I can reset the CV's and see what happens.  This FM is too much like the real thing!  

TRNJ

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Posted by olequa on Thursday, April 30, 2020 10:23 AM

BigDaddy

The instructions do say The loco drives with high speed at the time of the braking command 

They do not define what high speed is.

 

I was thinking that means higher than the internal speed step defined in CV64. If CV64 = 60 then that would be about 1/4 of max speed. I was thinking if you are going slower than that when you command the throttle to zero you will not hear brake squeal. But then I tested it and found that I get squeal even if I start at a speed a little more than half of the CV64 value. So I dunno...

But it sounds to me like the OP's problem is not in getting the sound to play but rather to have it stop playing before the loco stops. CV65 is what determines the cutoff point at the low end.

George

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Posted by olequa on Thursday, April 30, 2020 10:06 AM

This is puzzling...

Does your loco start to move at (commanded) speed step 1? If not, at what speed step does it start to move?

Have you tried setting CV65 to a much higher value than "1 or 2"? As I said in my earlier post I got the sounds to be realistic when that CV was set to 40. That was before I changed CV2 to a higher value.

And you said earlier you were configured to run at a max 10 smph. How did you do that if your max speed is set to 120 which is about half of what the loco would run at unimpeded?

George

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, April 30, 2020 10:03 AM

The instructions do say The loco drives with high speed at the time of the braking command 

They do not define what high speed is.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by trnj on Thursday, April 30, 2020 9:52 AM

Thanks, guys, for all the help.  Still no success.  CV 2 was 3, changed to 5 with no effect.  Back to 3.  CV high 120, CV 6 61.  Closest brake timing was probably CV64 at 40 and CV65 at 1 or 2.  May be the decoder and I may do a sound reinstall.  Gotta remember to save my CV settings first, though!  Have had the sad experience of "factory default" and then having a long bout of sound reassignments!  Gonna go run the new Bowser DS 4-4-1000 with Loksound 5 now!  I MAY tring a default reinstall first, after saving my settings to see if the problem may be some of my CV settings.

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Posted by olequa on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 11:04 AM

Indeed, by increasing the value in CV2, in my case from 1 to 5, the squeal worked as expected even using my original values of CV64=15 and CV65=2. Just try increasing CV2 and see if the problem is fixed.

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Posted by olequa on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 10:54 AM

Aha! I WAS able to replicate your issue after all. I set the loco max speed to a very low value (CV5 = 20) because you said yours was set to a max of 10 SMPH. When I did that and with a lot of momentum dialed in (CV4 = 180) then the squeal occurred when the loco was already stopped. With no momentum there was no squeal, as expected. With a lower value it seemed to work OK. 

I think what is happening is that the 255 internal speed steps are being squished into a very narrow range corresponding to the zero to 10 mph. That puts the lower part of this speed step range down below the noise floor as it were. I believe that the loco is still decelerating when we hear the squeal but it is already physically stopped because of friction. Setting minimum speed (CV2) to a higher value may correct this, mine is set at 1.

But I was able to make it work realistically by programming CV64 and 65 to much higher values of 60 and 40 respectively. 

Again, hope this helps

George

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 10:29 AM

Thanks to the OP for clarifying his exact issue and thanks to George, who confimed my suspicion that the next to last paragraph I quoted is wrong in that CV65 controls the end of the sound, not the start.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by olequa on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 10:22 AM

Speed steps only refer to how many bits are used in a command packet to set the speed. The decoder is using internal speed steps for the brake squeal, these steps range from zero to 255. Remember the manual said that the value 100 corresponds to speed step 48 of 128 (commanded). 100/255 = 48/128 approximately. Also, consider that the manual says that the brake squeal only can play if the loco is commanded to speed step zero. At that point commanded speed steps are history, the decoder is going to follow its internal programming as it slows to a stop. Anyways LokSound decoders, both V4 and V5 default to automatic detection of commanded speed steps.

I have a V4 decoder setup in which the brake squeal works as advertised. CV64 determines when the squeal should start (as the loco slows down past this threshold) and CV65 determines when it stops. In my decoder CV64 is set to 15 and CV65 is set to 2. This is pretty slow, but that is what I would expect from the prototype, that is I wouldn't expect to hear squeal at higher speeds. My max speed CV5 is set to 142 and I am using a custom speed curve. Momentum, both CV3 and CV4 are set to 180.

I tried replicating your problem by adjusting momentum, etc. but was unsuccessful. I think I remember one of my decoders going haywire a while ago but whatever caused that was fixed by reloading it or maybe just resetting it.

Hope this helps

George

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 8:47 AM

 Are you also using a 28 step speed table? That may be in conflict with the values being used for the brake squeal thresholds.

                                  --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by trnj on Wednesday, April 29, 2020 8:12 AM

Thanks for the info, guys.  My engines equipped with Loksound 3.5 and the newest one with a 5.0, all work well in regard to brake sound timing.  The lone 4.0 is the issue and no matter what the settings of CV's 64 and 65, the engine often stops and then the braking sound occurs.  The 28/128 speed step idea may have merit since I use 28 steps on my switching layout, with maximum SMPH at 10.  I may attempt a speed table reconfiguring with 128 steps.   If I find a cure, I will post it.  Thanks again.  BTW, the offending engine is a Walthers H10-44 with  a motor from Micro-Mark, which really is an excellent motor and draws little amperage.  All the other sound functions on the decoder are fine.  

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 5:11 PM

 Similar to something Mike (Water level Route) and I have been talking about in PMs, I wonder how well they truly handle 28 speed steps. I've always used Digitrax, which out of the box defaults to using 128 speed steps. NCE stubbornly sticks to 28, but lets you change an address to use 128. There is no global option like Digitrax - any Digitrax command station can be set to default to 128, 28, or even 14 steps, in addition to being able to have a specific setting for a given address.

 So if you are getting strange results with the brake squeal and you are using a system that defaults to 28 steps - give it a try with 128 and see if it behaves any better.

                                       --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 10:45 AM

I think you need to define "trouble".

The directions remind me of the movie Lost in Translation:

"13.6. Adjusting the braking sound threshold
The LokSound decoder is able to play a wheel-synchron brake sound. To play a brake sound, Damit das Bremsgeräusch abgespielt wird, there are several conditions necessary:
The braking time in CV 4 is set sufficiently high (at least value 20 or higher).
The loco drives with high speed at the time of the braking command.
The loco receives the driving command “Speed step 0”.


"The LokSound decoder will now start to play the braking sound at the time determined in CV 65. The higher the value in CV 64 is, the sooner the braking sound will be played. The default value 100 is approximately equivalent to speed step 48 of 128.


"The braking sound should and when the loco stopps. You are able to do some “finetuning” with CV 65, if the loco stopps too early."

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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synchronizing brake squeal sound on Loksound 4
Posted by trnj on Tuesday, April 28, 2020 5:55 AM

I am having trouble synchronizing the brake squeal sound on a Loksound 4 decoder, using CV's 64 and 65.  Any help appreciated.

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