From my experience, Loksound decoders normally come with a moderate amount of momentum already programmed in them for more realistic startups and slow downs. Even if you perform a complete reset of the decoder, I believe the momentum will still be there. If you want to alter it or remove it completely, you'll need to download the Lok5 manual from the ESU website provided above and change the required CVs.
I don't care for sudden starts and stops in my locomotives so I like and prefer the momentum. If fact, I'm a way bigger fan of motor-control than sound. Sound is fun for 5-10 at a time but I usually grow tired of it after a while. Great motor-control, OTOH, I enjoy anytime/anywhere.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Hello All,
It seems that the consensus is to practice your soldering technique.
hon30critterMy final bit of advice is to stop telling yourself that you can't solder. Tell yourself that you can solder. In either case you will be right!
I agree whole heatedly!
John-NYBWThis is my first Loksound decoder and there is a noticeable delay between turning the throttle and the loco responding. It was about a 3 1/2 second delay at start up. The time it took to stop seems to vary depending on the speed. When I ran it at top speed, which I would normally never do, it seemed to take 6 seconds or more to come to a stop after I shut off the throttle. At normal speed it would take about 2-3 seconds to come to a stop. Is this the way these decoders are programmed to operate.
I have no experience with Loksound decoders so I don't know what the Configuration Variables (CVs) are set from the factory.
From what you've described it seems that the CVs for acceleration and deceleration (CVs 3 & 4) have been set to something other than zero "0". Setting zero to these CVs will produce an instantaneous response.
Other values will affect the "lag" time of acceleration and deceleration- -as you have described.
Another consideration in the lag-time might be a "keep-alive" device in the decoder.
These are capacitors that allow the locomotive to continue when the power from the track to the decoder is interrupted. This can happen over dirty track or unpowered frogs.
The decoder will not respond to the DCC packets until it gets an "updated" signal.
Moving over the above-mentioned track situations will block the signal and the decoder will not respond to commands from the system until it reaches a section of track that can produce a signal that the decoder can read.
To the uninitiated, this might seem like the locomotive has a mind of its own because there is a lag time from when commands are sent from the controller to when the unit responds.
I would suggest a decoder reset.
For most decoders programming CV 8 to a value of 8 will reset the decoder to the address of 3 and zero out any momentum settings. It will not affect the "keep-alive" function.
Download the decoder manual from ESU to confirm the reset CVs and if there is or is not a "keep-alive" function to your particular decoder.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
First time soldering is hardly ever achieved with the new parts.
Starting with with scrap material is the best way until you get proper smooth solder flow. Rosin flux with electrical solder. I wear an Optivisor.
I use Cardas Soldering Wire Quad Eutectic Silver Solder with rosin flux because it goes from liquid to solid faster than any other solder. 0.032" diameter.
I also have used a Weller WLC100 station with the fine point conical plated tip. Practice, practice, practice.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Billwiz RR_Mel I was taught to solder by my uncle when I was 10 years old, if a 10 year old can do it you can too. “Practice makes perfect” I was in Jr. High when I starated an interest in electricity and electronics. My uncle gave me my first soldering iron and a roll of solder. He told me it was an extremely high quality and expensive solder so use it sparingly. I'm 56 and still have that roll of solder. Dont know technicals about it, but it does the job and I still use it sparingly. Soldering takes practice, but to the OP, you can do it. I've gotten better at decoder installations.
RR_Mel I was taught to solder by my uncle when I was 10 years old, if a 10 year old can do it you can too. “Practice makes perfect”
I was in Jr. High when I starated an interest in electricity and electronics. My uncle gave me my first soldering iron and a roll of solder. He told me it was an extremely high quality and expensive solder so use it sparingly. I'm 56 and still have that roll of solder. Dont know technicals about it, but it does the job and I still use it sparingly. Soldering takes practice, but to the OP, you can do it. I've gotten better at decoder installations.
RR_MelI was taught to solder by my uncle when I was 10 years old, if a 10 year old can do it you can too. “Practice makes perfect”
OldEngineman I'll go "against the grain" here. I use those little plastic wire retainers (or nubs), and don't really have much trouble with them. I prefer using these to soldering because it makes things MUCH easier if you need to take the decoder back out, disassemble the engine, etc.
I'll go "against the grain" here.
I use those little plastic wire retainers (or nubs), and don't really have much trouble with them.
I prefer using these to soldering because it makes things MUCH easier if you need to take the decoder back out, disassemble the engine, etc.
As far as having to desolder wires connected to a PCB board, nothing could be easier. You put the hot tip of the soldering iron on the soldered joint and out comes the wire.
This past year, I sold over four dozen Tortoises on eBay. In preparation for the eBay listings, I desoldered wires from as many as 8 tabs on each Tortoise. I even went so far as to clear the wiring holes in each tab with a desoldering braid. I completed the entire task in very little time without one failure.
Soldering is not rocket science.
Alton Junction
In all cases, I "tin the wires" first -- no "fooling with loose strands" and the stiffness seems to help insofar as a good fit with the retainers is concerned.
I've found that how well they work depends on the size of the tabs on the decoder board -- some are narrower than others, resulting in a "loose fit". You don't want this.
My solution for this is to "loop the wire through the hole" twice, so the retainer has something more "substantial" to be pressed over.
I've soldered a few boards in, but again, if you're careful with the wire retainers, things can go well enough...
hon30critterI have this thing beside my workbench that is called a garbage can. That's why I don't have any old circuit boards to offer to anyone. You should try one!
I'm getting better lately, Dave, honest I am.
Actually there have been a few shout-outs on the forums for anyone having so-and-so lightboard for a this-or-that loco. Ed to the rescue
I recently dismantled three big home-stereo amps. Scrounger that I am I salvaged as much as I could. Took the huge transformers, one of them was nine pounds! to the scrap yard. I got rewarded with enough cash to buy exactly one package of Kadee couplers
Still, my collection of PC light boards is my personal ball of string or is it rubber bands? One day they will all go to the recycler, I promise.
Cheers, Ed
gmpullman Do you have nice, flexible wire, too? I don't recall if it came up in the other thread but having nice, clean wire to work with is also important. Some of that old PVC stuff found in 1990s locomotives is pretty stiff by now. Regards, Ed
Do you have nice, flexible wire, too? I don't recall if it came up in the other thread but having nice, clean wire to work with is also important. Some of that old PVC stuff found in 1990s locomotives is pretty stiff by now.
Regards, Ed
I received a spool of 30 AWG wire a few days ago. It is much easier to work with.
gmpullmanIf you'd like some fodder to practice with, I can send you a bunch of old PC boards removed from some of my decoder installs. They're perfect to practice on rather than risk toasing another hundred-dollar decoder.
Hi Ed!
I have this thing beside my workbench that is called a garbage can. That's why I don't have any old circuit boards to offer to anyone. You should try one! (Or with that volume of old circuits, perhaps it would be more ecologically astute to have a recycling bin there too).
Seriously, when I first got into the hobby and I was still working for Sears Canada I carted home dozens of defective major appliance control panels and dutifully stripped them of all of their components. I ended up with buckets of relays, micro switches, LCD panels and countless resistors and capacitors. I thought I had a treasure trove! It dawned on me several years later that my actual need for such bits and pieces was virtually nil. I freed up a lot of storage space by relegating the bits and pieces to the garbage. Yes, I should have recycled them. My bad!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
hon30critterI think that there are a whole raft of potential issues here, so let me try to point out the main ones:
Good advice, Dave I was thinking the very same thing. I have several of those early Life-Like C-Liners and Erie-Builts and they run as smooth as a big 'ol Cadillac.
John-NYBW I can always try to solder the joints and hope I don't destroy another decoder.
John, If you'd like some fodder to practice soldering on, I can send you a bunch of old PC boards removed from some of my decoder installs. They're perfect to practice on rather than risk toasing another hundred-dollar decoder.
DCC_PCBb by Edmund, on Flickr
John-NYBWSince this is a second hand loco that hasn't run for a while, I put it on the wheel cleaner and that seemed to help a lot. It was still sluggish at first but then began to run smoothly.
I think that there are a whole raft of potential issues here, so let me try to point out the main ones:
I may have missed it, but did you clean all the old grease out of the trucks and re-lubricate the locomotive before installing the decoder? If you didn't do that then I'm not surprised that the locomotive was responding very slowly at first.
Again, if I have missed some information I apologise, but do you know how to control the momentum settings on your decoder?
You said that "the equipment isn't the problem". Exactly what equipment are you using? I thought I had decent soldering equipment and my soldering skills were decent, but after buying a Xytronic soldering station my ability to solder improved drastically!
You have been asked what solder you are using. If you are using large diameter solder it will make a mess every time! I recommend Kester's Electronic Silver Solder 62% tin, 36% lead, 2% silver, with flux. .020" dia. available from Ngineering. Scroll down a bit for the solder:
https://www.ngineering.com/soldering.htm
As several others have said, soldering is not difficult but it does take some practice. Here is my worth:
The best advice is to tin everything first regardless of whether or not the wire or the soldering pads have been pre-tinned. Then get in and back out with your iron as quickly as possible. If the solder won't melt and flow then either your iron isn't hot enough (unlikely), or you are not making good contact with the solder and/or the solder pad ( not usually a problem), or things are not clean (i.e. you didn't follow the advice in the first sentence). If you apply heat to a decoder for more than three or four seconds then you will damage the solder pads.
Use non-acid flux. Put a tiny amount on the solder pad and on the wire before tinning them, and then put a tiny amount on the pad and the wire again after tinning them. (Tinning means to apply a fresh layer of solder to the mating surfaces).
Keep your soldering tip clean! Get a brass or copper sponge to wipe the tip on.
https://www.amazon.ca/Soldering-Cleaner-Wire-Type-Holder-Cleaning/dp/B07FX4V7PZ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=soldering+iron+tip+cleaners&qid=1587257196&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzUjlOQUFWM05LRDkxJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjY3NTE1MzVDTVBCQVBFMEk0TyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNjQ1NDk0OVpJQUNNMFJYRkpRJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
Sometimes you will think that you need three hands to hold everything, one for the wire, one for the solder and one for the soldering iron. You can cheat a bit by melting a bit of solder onto the iron tip and then touching that to the (properly prepared) joint.
My final bit of advice is to stop telling yourself that you can't solder. Tell yourself that you can solder. In either case you will be right!
Cheers!!
Famous violinist runs up out of the subway, jumps in a cab, and yells, "Quick! How do I get to Carnegie Hall!"Cabbie turns around and says "Practice, practice, practice!"
I learned to solder by soldering 16 and 18 ga wires to chunks of old tin cans.I learned to weather by buying old $1 junker cars at flea markets and weathering them.Practice makes perfect. Clean iron, clean metal, small solder. It ain't that difficult.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
John-NYBWthis is a second hand loco that hasn't run for a while, I put it on the wheel cleaner and that seemed to help a lot. It was still sluggish at first but then began to run smoothly.
Question for the group: Would dirty wheels, run OK in DC, but not DCC? I suspect maybe it would. Dried out grease causing a problem, in my experience, would be visible in DC.
John-NYBWThis is my first Loksound decoder and there is a noticeable delay between turning the throttle and the loco responding. It was about a 3 1/2 second delay at start up. The time it took to stop seems to vary depending on the speed. When I ran it at top speed, which I would normally never do, it seemed to take 6 seconds or more to come to a stop after I shut off the throttle. At normal speed it would take about 2-3 seconds to come to a stop.
The acceleration and deceleration could totally be due CV settings of the decoder. Electrons move at the speed of light, so it's not a soldering issue. Page 55 Section 10.1 of the V-5 manual
There is also a programable delay that causes the engine to sound to start before the engine moves at all. 13.2
The V-5 manual is way more complicated than the V-4 manual but acceleration shouldn't be that hard. Don't hesitate to ask, though.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I learned years ago to buy the best tools possible- -within budget and use.
Recently I bought a Hakko FX-888D.
This is an extremely good soldering station at a "reasonable" price...about $100.00!
Some have commented that it is, "too extravagant" and have offered opinions on other more inexpensive solder stations that are, "just as good".
For me, this $100.00 spent was well invested.
I began my electronic career as a theatrical electrician- -"Roadie" if you will.
At the time Weller soldering stations were the "Gold Standard".
I began my soldering experience by making "trunk" or multi-plex cables of 12ga wire with 18-conductors; hot, neutral and ground for each pair of 6 circuits per cable. Each circuit was rated at 20 amps.
The multi-plex connectors had cup-shaped receptacles. These needed to be "prepped" by tinning them.
Next, the actual conductors "wires" needed to be tinned- -all with flux.
Finally, the conductors were mated to the receptacles.
The point of all this rambling is, begin your soldering education with large wires. Start with old used speaker wire.
Learn how the tinning process works. Understand how the temperature settings can affect the solder joint along with the importance of flux.
Yes, I agree that DCC components are expensive to replace, but once you learn the intricacies of soldering, over the life of a good solder station it will amortize out to the cost of your time and effort taken away from running trains or troubleshooting other inferior methods of decoder installation.
OK, I bit the bullet and went ahead and soldered the decoder into place. Not the neatest soldering job but it seems to have gotten the job done. For safety I put strips of Kapton tape on the frame anywhere it was near a soldered joint. I put it on the programming track and programmed the address I wanted. Then put it on the track for a test run. At first I got nothing but after about 8-10 seconds it slowly came to life. Since this is a second hand loco that hasn't run for a while, I put it on the wheel cleaner and that seemed to help a lot. It was still sluggish at first but then began to run smoothly. I had the shell off the whole time so I used the multi-meter to check the connections and everything looked good. This is my first Loksound decoder and there is a noticeable delay between turning the throttle and the loco responding. It was about a 3 1/2 second delay at start up. The time it took to stop seems to vary depending on the speed. When I ran it at top speed, which I would normally never do, it seemed to take 6 seconds or more to come to a stop after I shut off the throttle. At normal speed it would take about 2-3 seconds to come to a stop. Is this the way these decoders are programmed to operate. I have a couple P2K F-unit sets that start up and stop gradually but without nearly the delay I am getting with this decoder.
I haven't attached the sugar cube speakers or the headlight yet. I have some LED lights on order which are supposed to arrive Monday. Tomorrow I plan to install the decoder in the other C-Liner. I plan to run them as an A-A set.
when they are on a decoder board, I remove them and solder the joints, excellent reliability... The clips go into the garbage can, not to be recycled, just garbage as far as I'm concerned ..
BigDaddyAthearn wire locks have a big square hole. I'm not sure those are for the OP's purpose either
That's why I mentioned different sizes in my post, as the Athearn boards have a wider tab the than some others.
There're unreliable anyway, especially on the pick-up strip that is on the trucks of Athearn and Kato locos.
Mike.
My You Tube
Those things make poor contact as best. Avoid them. They are on the locos because it makes it quicker and cheaper for the Chinese factory to assemble the loco.
Put the wire through the hole and bend it over, but instead of putting the plastic clip on, just solder it to the board.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
StevertThey are called "snoods" or "hook heads" and are readily available on that auction site
I saw that in another forum, someone specifically asked where to buy snoods. The only snoods I can find are head coverings or fishing tackle. Someone recommended hook leads (which look too big to me to be of us use for the intended purpose) in 2 separate posts and the person asking for snoods said he bought hook heads (which also is fishing related)
Athearn wire locks have a big square hole. I'm not sure those are for the OP's purpose either
http://www.averystreetstores.com/athearn-ho-scale-wire-locks-sd70-sd75-28-pieces-g63838/
John-NYBW Stevert They are called "snoods" or "hook heads" and are readily available on that auction site. However, they are almost universally panned as being nothing more than a cheap, unreliable, assembly-line method of attachment. All you REALLY need for installing a decoder is a cheap, 7-or-so-watt soldering pencil with a small, pointed tip, some fine (.031 or smaller) rosin-core solder, and the mindset that less solder on a joint is better. You probably weren't following the thread in which I detailed how I destroyed an expensive LokSound decoder with a faulty soldering job. The problem isn't the equipment, it is my skill level. Whenever I have attempted to solder wires onto tiny connections, it has gone badly. I can't get the solder to go where I want it to. It ends up where it's not supposed to be and creates a short which invariably fries the sensitive electronics. People tell me all the time that it is not that difficult and I'm sure for most people it is not but it is something I've never gotten the hang of and trying to learn gets expensive. The same is true of airbrushing. I've never learned to do that either which is why I have shelves of rattle can paints in my basement. I'm going to give these little plastic clips a try and if they prove not to be reliable, I can always try to solder the joints and hope I don't destroy another decoder.
Stevert They are called "snoods" or "hook heads" and are readily available on that auction site. However, they are almost universally panned as being nothing more than a cheap, unreliable, assembly-line method of attachment. All you REALLY need for installing a decoder is a cheap, 7-or-so-watt soldering pencil with a small, pointed tip, some fine (.031 or smaller) rosin-core solder, and the mindset that less solder on a joint is better.
They are called "snoods" or "hook heads" and are readily available on that auction site. However, they are almost universally panned as being nothing more than a cheap, unreliable, assembly-line method of attachment.
All you REALLY need for installing a decoder is a cheap, 7-or-so-watt soldering pencil with a small, pointed tip, some fine (.031 or smaller) rosin-core solder, and the mindset that less solder on a joint is better.
You probably weren't following the thread in which I detailed how I destroyed an expensive LokSound decoder with a faulty soldering job. The problem isn't the equipment, it is my skill level. Whenever I have attempted to solder wires onto tiny connections, it has gone badly. I can't get the solder to go where I want it to. It ends up where it's not supposed to be and creates a short which invariably fries the sensitive electronics. People tell me all the time that it is not that difficult and I'm sure for most people it is not but it is something I've never gotten the hang of and trying to learn gets expensive. The same is true of airbrushing. I've never learned to do that either which is why I have shelves of rattle can paints in my basement. I'm going to give these little plastic clips a try and if they prove not to be reliable, I can always try to solder the joints and hope I don't destroy another decoder.
In its simplest terms, soldering is the placing of the hot point of the iron on the pieces of metal to be soldered together and then holding a thin piece of solder over that spot. That is it.
Those little black clips are not reliable even when they are factory installed. They are even less reliable once they have been taken off a decoder and then replaced back on a decoder.
I mentioned in your other thread that you simply need to practice soldering on an old decoder board that you have fried until you get the confidence to do it on a working decoder board. Either that or limit your purchases to locomotives with the decoder already installed.
It is one thing to hear a modeler say that he is not sufficiently skilled to work an airbrush. It is quite another thing to hear a modeler say that he is not sufficiently skilled to solder a wire to a decoder.
John,
I'm just curious (and I don't remember if you mentioned these in your other thread):
StevertThey are called "snoods" or "hook heads"
I've been searching Ebay with those terms. I get nothing but head covers and scarves, and fishing jig hooks with different colored heads.
I also agree that soldering connections is the best approach. If you are making a mess with soldering you probably have too big an iron, too hot an iron, too thick a roll of solderor even too low a melting point for your solder.
Get either some solder wick braid if a solder sucking tool to quickly remove the excess when you get it.
Remember that every now and then you will need to solder something, no other option. You need to learn soldering anyway. Yes, you CAN do it.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Same here, I have some of the Athearn clips left over, as I give up using them, if the OP wants them.
I've traced a lot of problems back to those plastic clips over the years for losing contact. First thing I do with a new engine is pull them off and solder the wires. I've literally thrown hundreds of those things in the garbage. If I knew somebody actually wanted them, I would have been tossing them in a container.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ