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NCE Power Cab Expansion

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NCE Power Cab Expansion
Posted by kenben on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 2:20 PM

I have an 8' x 6' DCC HO layout I'm building. 90% of the time 1 operator, 10% 2 operators. Running 1 to 3 trains at one time. The layout has a 2'x3' opening in the middle. I want to add a power cab connection in the middle. It appears I will need a UTP Panel. But what cable do I need to connect the Power Cabs PCP Panel to the UTP panel? The length of this cable would be 4'. And then I may want to add a second cab controller. What do I need for that?

Thanks for any feedback.

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 3:35 PM

Ken,

Just so that I'm clear: Are you wanting the option of powering your layout with your Power Cab from two different panels on your layout - e.g. one on the outer fascia or another on the interior fascia?  Or, are you just wanting to add a 2nd Power Cab as an extra throttle?

Tom

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 4:12 PM

Sounds like he wants both, eventually

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Posted by gregc on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 5:11 PM

kenben
I want to add a power cab connection in the middle.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by kenben on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 5:19 PM
The first option I want is to be able to unplug my Power Cab from the PCP and move into the center area and plug it into the UTP Panel and control from there. A daisy chain. I could also later add a 2nd cap and left that connected on the inside and leave the Power Cab connected to the main PCP panel. Does a Power Cap HAVE to be connected to the PCP for any daisy chained UTP panel added? What do I need for the 2nd cap? What cable do I need to daisy chain the PCP to the UTP? Only needs to be 4 feet.
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Posted by kenben on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 5:30 PM

gregc

 This is what I want to do. But if I only have the one Power Cab, will it function if I connect it to the UTP panel and run trains from there? Or does the Power Cab have to remain connceted to the PCP panel, meaning I would need a 2nd cab controller of some kind for the UTP panel.

 
kenben
I want to add a power cab connection in the middle.

 

 

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 5:38 PM

 The PowerCab must remain plugged in to the PowerCab Panel witht he 6 wire cord to run train. It is the complete 'brains' of the system including the source of track power. You can get a Cab-06 and use that plugged in to any of the other plug locations, the second one in the PCP, and eithe rof the two in the new panel.

                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by gregc on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 6:50 PM

kenben
I want to add a power cab connection in the middle.   ...

And then I may want to add a second cab controller.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 7:41 PM

Ken,

As mentioned, your Power Cab must remain plugged into the PCP panel in order to supply power to your layout.  You can add a 2nd throttle using the RIGHT connector port of your PCP panel...or daisy-chain a UTP panel from the rear connector port of same - using either a 4- or 6-contact RJ12 cable - to add two additional connector ports.

Either one of the RJ12 cables will work with that set up because only 4 wires are needed for the connection.  The 6-contact flat cable is what is used to supply the power from your Power Cab to your track.

NCE sells a 7' RJ12 cable.  For a 4' cable you'll either need to make your own, or have someone crimp one that length for you.  You could also purchase additional coily-coils - like the one that came with your Power Cab - and use that to daisy-chain the PCP panel to the rear of the UTP panel.

Tom

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Posted by kenben on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 9:44 PM

So I can just use that coily-coil connector cable that came with my NCE Power Cap kit to run between the PCP and UTP panels (using one of the ports off the back of each of course)? And I would need to get a 2nd cab controller for the UTP. What would you reconnend for that cab controller?

THX 

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, April 14, 2020 11:38 PM

kenben

So I can just use that coily-coil connector cable that came with my NCE Power Cap kit to run between the PCP and UTP panels (using one of the ports off the back of each of course)?

Correct.  As mentioned, the coily-coil comes with the 4-contact RJ12 cable connectors on the ends.

And I would need to get a 2nd cab controller for the UTP.  What would you reconnend for that cab controller?

THX

The most economical route would be the CAB-06 throttle.  Discounted, it will run you ~$86:

If you want something similar to the Power Cab, the ProCab throttle can be picked up for ~$150, discounted:

The ProCab throttle is essentially the Power Cab minus the command station & booster.  This is the throttle that comes with the NCE 5A PH Pro system.

For a little more you could purchase another Power Cab system and use one to power your layout and the other to program your locomotives at your bench.  (You would need the 2nd Power Cab's PCP panel and wall transformer set up at your bench to accomplish that.)  Whenever you need the additional throttle, just unplug the 2nd Power Cab from your bench and plug it into either the UTP panel or the RIGHT connector port of your PCP panel, as outlined in the earlier diagram provided by Greg.

HTH...

Tom

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Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 10:56 AM

Note that you can purchase a second PCP and just move the Power Cab to it. These could be wired to feed the layout together, but everything would still go dead when you move the Power Cab from one PCP to the other. You also would not want to plug in Power Cabs to each PCP at the same time.

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Posted by gregc on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 11:03 AM

mlehman
You also would not want to plug in Power Cabs to each PCP at the same time.

doesn't the second detect the cabbus signal and come up as a PowerPro cab?

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Posted by mlehman on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 12:25 PM

Only if it's a standard throttle that can be set to Address 3. I don't think that can be do that with the Power Cab? But maybe so, except that one would use the curly cable and pretend to be a Power Cab throttle.

And having two Power Cabs hooked up to the same load via the flat cable may cause electrical issues, so I suspect a no-go to avoid letting any smoke out. It's not a documented configuration in the Power Cab manual, so I'd check with NCE before trying that.

Still cheaper to go with an 06 and an extra PCP  and move the location of the Power Cab than to buy 2 Power Cabs.

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 4:03 PM

 Plugging 2 PowerCabs in to two different PCPs hooked to the same layout is definitely NOT allowed. That would be like connecting 2 command stations of any sort to the same layout with the added no-no of connecting two boosters in parallel. 

 There is really only one option to turn the PowerCab into a walkaround that you can unplug, and that is to get an SB5 Smart Booster. Then use ONLY the curly cord witht he PowerCab, as it now is really a plain ProCab. It can be unplugged and the trains will keep moving, and you can plug in to any number of plug panels. Doesn't seem like for the layout size, the extra power is needed though, so the SB5 is a rather expensive way to go.

 A cab bus panel and CAB06 is still the cheapest way to go, run trains with the CAB06, it can plug in next to the power cab, or in another panel daisy chained from the PCP. The PowerCab must stay put, using the flat cable.

                                   --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by gregc on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 4:32 PM

mlehman
It's not a documented configuration in the Power Cab manual, so I'd check with NCE before trying that.

when i plug my PowerCab into the club layout it behaves like a PowerPro  (yes, i've had to configure the Cab address)

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 5:40 PM

gregc
when i plug my PowerCab into the club layout it behaves like a PowerPro (yes, i've had to configure the Cab address)

Does your club use a booster?

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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, April 15, 2020 6:58 PM

As long as the Power Cab is NOT connected to track power it will behave like a ProCab throttle when connected to either the SB5 or a PH Pro system.  That's what essentially happens when you plug the Power Cab into the RIGHT connector port of the PCP panel: It lights up and looks like it's ready to operate your locomotive.  However, nothing happens when you press the buttons or engage the throttle because the Power Cab's command station and booster are not connected to the track.

Tom

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Posted by gregc on Thursday, April 16, 2020 2:04 AM

tstage
However, nothing happens when you press the buttons or engage the throttle because the Power Cab's command station and booster are not connected to the track.

don't know how the PowerCab knows it's not connected to the track.   The buttons still allow me to select a loco when i plug it into the PCP jack without the track connections.   Of course there's no track power.

regardless of which PCP jack you plug into first, the PowerCab will not see any cabbus signals, operate as a PowerCab and provide track power on the two outside pins of its rj-12 plug.   The second PowerCab will see the cabbus signal from the first PowerCab and the 2nd PowerCab will operate as a PowerPro cab.

i guess there's a race if two PowerCabs are plugged into both PCP jacks at the same time.   If both come up as PowerCabs, both will drive the cabbus (not good), but only one is connected to the track thru the PCP.

of course, there will only be track power if the PowerCab performing as a PowerCab is plugged into the PCP jack with the track connections

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, April 16, 2020 6:51 AM

I own an NCE PH-Pro 5 amp wireless system with two ProCabs used as throttles. I do not own a Power Cab, but I have long considered purchasing one to use on the work bench for programming purposes.

Whenever I see a thread about the Power Cab, I follow along to see what I can learn about the Power Cab. But, for the life of me, I cannot totally follow this thread.

I get what everyone is saying about the use of more than one Power Cab on a layout, but my question is this. Why would you want to use two or more Power Cabs on a layout? Would multiple Power Cabs simply be used as additional throttles? If so, is that the most effective way to approach the use of multiple throttles?

Rich

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Posted by gregc on Thursday, April 16, 2020 7:46 AM

richhotrain
Why would you want to use two or more Power Cabs on a layout?

if you have a PowerCab, it doesn't make sense to buy another

but at our club, several members will bring their PowerCabs from home and use them, or when operating on a friends layout.   When plugged into a layout with a NCE DCC system, they come up as cabs and need unique cab numbers which are easily configurable.

(The electronic copies of the PowerCab manual (1.65) says (pg 14) an extra cab must be cab address 3 which implies that only one additional cab can be used on a system with a PowerCab.   However, my printed manual says an extra cab must be set to address "3, 4 and/or 5" which implies three additional cabs can be used.)

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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, April 16, 2020 8:21 AM

 Originally, the PowerCab only supported one additional throttle. 1.65 expanded that, but with a major bug - if you do a full system reset, it reverted to the original behavior. 1.65B is what you should have, that supports the extra addresses for additional cabs and doesn't have the fallback bug.

 If you have a POowerCab and wanted an extra full feature throttle, the only reason to chose another PowerCab over getting just the ProCab would be if you want a spare in case it breaks. Or you want to set up a test track away from the layout and don;t feel like unplugging the PowerCab all the time - because you CAN buy just the PCP and a power supply to accomplish the same thing and move the one PowerCab from the layout to the workshop and back.

 If you have a PowerCab and expand by buying a full PH Pro system, or get the SB5, there is NO reason to buy a second PowerCab. 

                                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, April 16, 2020 8:29 AM

Thanks greg and Randy. That clears up that question. I appreciate your replies.

Rich

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Posted by tstage on Thursday, April 16, 2020 8:39 AM

richhotrain
I get what everyone is saying about the use of more than one Power Cab on a layout, but my question is this. Why would you want to use two or more Power Cabs on a layout? Would multiple Power Cabs simply be used as additional throttles? If so, is that the most effective way to approach the use of multiple throttles? Rich

Rich,

If I were the OP...and I wanted a throttle like my Power Cab...and I had a choice between a ProCab throttle that cost me $150 (discounted) and another Power Cab that costs $180 (discount), I personally would spend the extra $30 because it gives me more options:

  1. I can leave PC #1 hooked up to operate my layout
  2. I can use PC #2 at my bench (using the 2nd PCP that came with my PC #2) for programming while I operate trains on my layout...or,
  3. I (or a friend) can walk over and plug PC #2 either into the RIGHT connector port of the PCP panel for PC #1 or a UTP panel that I have in another location of my layout to operate another locomotive

I couldn't accomplish 2 & 3 with just a CAB-06 or a ProCab throttle.

Is it the most effective way to approach the use of multiple throttles? - Perhaps not.  Is it the most economical way to approach the use of multiple throttles? - No.  It does give me the most options though for a little more $$$ than a ProCab throttle.

That was the primary point of my earlier thread when I spelled out all the various options to the OP about adding an additional throttle to his home layout.  If the OP just wants an extra throttle for his layout, the CAB-06 is just fine and less expensive. 

Tom

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Posted by jjdamnit on Thursday, April 16, 2020 12:24 PM

Hello All,

Have you tried the NCE site?

Under each heading there are a series of White Papers that discuss the topics you have raised.

I looked under the "Throttles and Cabs" section and learned about the differences and applications.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, April 16, 2020 2:01 PM

tstage
 
richhotrain
I get what everyone is saying about the use of more than one Power Cab on a layout, but my question is this. Why would you want to use two or more Power Cabs on a layout? Would multiple Power Cabs simply be used as additional throttles? If so, is that the most effective way to approach the use of multiple throttles? Rich 

Rich,

If I were the OP...and I wanted a throttle like my Power Cab...and I had a choice between a ProCab throttle that cost me $150 (discounted) and another Power Cab that costs $180 (discount), I personally would spend the extra $30 because it gives me more options:

  1. I can leave PC #1 hooked up to operate my layout
  2. I can use PC #2 at my bench (using the 2nd PCP that came with my PC #2) for programming while I operate trains on my layout...or,
  3. I (or a friend) can walk over and plug PC #2 either into the RIGHT connector port of the PCP panel for PC #1 or a UTP panel that I have in another location of my layout to operate another locomotive

I couldn't accomplish 2 & 3 with just a CAB-06 or a ProCab throttle.

Is it the most effective way to approach the use of multiple throttles? - Perhaps not.  Is it the most economical way to approach the use of multiple throttles? - No.  It does give me the most options though for a little more $$$ than a ProCab throttle.

That was the primary point of my earlier thread when I spelled out all the various options to the OP about adding an additional throttle to his home layout.  If the OP just wants an extra throttle for his layout, the CAB-06 is just fine and less expensive. 

Tom 

Thanks, Tom, that is very helpful.

Rich

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Posted by mlehman on Friday, April 17, 2020 10:16 AM

gregc
...at our club, several members will bring their PowerCabs from home and use them, or when operating on a friends layout. When plugged into a layout with a NCE DCC system, they come up as cabs and need unique cab numbers which are easily configurable...

The differemnce comes in which cord is used to plug it in. At home as a Power Cab, the flat cable (6 conductor)  is used to connect to the layout through the PCP, which feeds it the power provided through the wall wart that powers it.

Used alternatively as a throttle on layouts powered by a Power Pro system, the curled cord (4-conductor) is used to connect the Power Cab to the control bus via plugging into a UTP. Then it acts like a standard Power Pro throttle.

Additionally, it is (was?) an option to special order a Power Cab with the wireless radio option so no cord would be needed when used on a Power Pro system.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by gregc on Friday, April 17, 2020 1:03 PM

mlehman
Used alternatively as a throttle on layouts powered by a Power Pro system, the curled cord (4-conductor) is used to connect the Power Cab to the control bus via plugging into a UTP. Then it acts like a standard Power Pro throttle.

it's not the cord that makes it operate as a cab.   It's that it receives cabbus poll message sent by the commands station that makes it operate as a regular cab (not a PowerCab).

even if you used a 6 conductor cord on a club layout with a command station, the 2 outside conductors aren't connected to anything on the UTP.   (see jack labeled "Right Front" below, which is how the UTP jacks are wired)

if you plugged a PowerCab into the PCP jack with the track connections using a 4 conductor cord, it would come up as a PowerCab beacuse it wouldn't see any cabbus polls.   Of course there would be no track power because the PowerCab isn't connected to the track because of the cord.

mlehman
the flat cable (6 conductor)  is used to connect to the layout through the PCP, which feeds it the power provided through the wall wart that powers it.

pins 2 & 5 provide power to the cab/PowerCab on either the PCP or UTP

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, April 17, 2020 2:33 PM

 Looks like they made the right decision to leave off that DPDT switch which would send track power out the rear 6p6c socket. That would only confuse people.  

                         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by tstage on Friday, April 17, 2020 2:38 PM

Yea, I verified that yesterday, Randy.  The rear connector ports on the PCP are all 4-contact.

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