Randy,
Sorry, I responded too quickly last night without having done my homework. Too quick can frequently mean making oneself look foolish which I certainly did... I do appreciate the clarification and discussing some important differences between Loksound and Soundtraxx decoders. I have spent some time reading the Loksound manual and look forward to using the v5 decoder in the future. Since I am a newbie in relation to DCC, I think I will start with installing TSC T1-LED's in my two Athearns (both have LEDs and a 9 pin Jst harness installed). Get's my feet wet with programing a decoder. The Loksound will require more work to replace headlights with LEDs, remove part of the weight for speakers, install, and learn programming a decoder. Thanks Randy!
Henry,
Always appreciate your contributions! I'm old enough to have been around when GP30's were in use but the CNW only purchased 14 of them so I probably did not see one in operation. I do see plenty of GP38-2 and GP40-2 working for UP these days on a branch line. I remember smiling when I first heard an EMD645E file on the Loksound site. Matched the sounds of locals switching cars very well and I really like the sound. The loksound EMD 567D3 is a bit higher pitched due to the turbocharger. I heard one very pleasing p2K GP30 with Loksound on youtube but decoders from other companies had very annoying high pitches, even when idling... Will be interesting to try both versions on my install to see which I like best. As far as the wine test goes, I can tell difference between Boone's Farm and $40 bottle of wine only. They need to make a wine that tastes like Beer for me! LOL! We need a thumbs up emoticon, I give one Henry!
George,
Appreciate your offer to help! PM sent! Thank you G!
IDRickif it's not too difficult, could you send me picture of the inside of your shell or post it? If you prefer email, I'll send you my email in a PM. Love to see how all the pieces fit together when your done. What size LEDs did you use for the number boards and how to keep from being too bright, change a CV, larger resistor, or?
Go ahead and PM. I'm away from home for a week so can't comply immediately. When I get back I will show you my current project as it happens. Regarding the brightness, most decoders should allow dimming via CV adjustment. I use nothing but LokSounds now and their implementation works well. Using resistors to dim would be a little sketchy for resistor selection and you can't undim via command.
G
Oh, I can tell the difference between a $4 bottle of Boone's Farm and a $40 bottle fromt he local winery. What I can't tell the difference between is that $40 bottle and a $400 bottle with some fancy French name.
I've ridden in the cab oif a GP30, but it was an ex=Santa Fe rebuilt one so not the original prime mover. I doubt I ever saw a GP30 in original condition - at least not that I was old enough to remember, but now that they've had the faulty turbo rebuilt on the one owned by the RCTHS, maybe I will. But I can't tell the different 567's apart, and if you blindfolded me so I couldn't see the loco and ran a few past me, I don't think I could tell you which was the 645 and which was the 567. I can definitely tell an EMD from an Alco though, so I won't be caught dead loading a 567 sound in an as-delivered RS3.
GP30s are too new for my layout, but since the correct sound files are available, I would load the right one. No sense in not, since it's there. It's not any extra effort, and just because I might be able to tell the differnce doesn't mean others can't.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
While I'm sure I saw GP30's back in the day, I don't feel like I can listen to several sound projects and pick #3 as the one that sounds the most realistic, or the one I remember. Maybe I'm like the guy who says he can't tell the difference between a $40 bottle of wine and a $4 bottle of wine.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Since I only use Loksound, I invested in a Lokprogrammer, so I can try out any sound project I want, or customize my own - which is what I did for my RS3s. I didn't have to make my own recordings, the correct horn is in ESU's library of sounds, but the existing sound project for the RS3 did not have that horn, so I swapped them to get the prototypically correct one for my locos. Super easy.
If you just oder a decoder from one of the vendors who will preload a sound project of your choice, it's just like any other decoder. of COURSE you only get one, you can;t load 5 sound projects at the same time. But unlike almost all of the others, you CAN later change the sound project with a Lokprogrammer. You can also upgrade the firmware to add new features. My first Loksounds don't have Drive/Hold, it came out long after I packed my stuff up to move. But when I get them out, I will run them through my Lokprogrammer and add the feature, without even having to open the loco. Have a Tsunami and want the newest dynamic drive or whatever Soundtraxx calls it? Sorry, remove decoder and replace with a Tsunami 2.
There's been talk of possibly adding an equalizer feature to Loksound v5. I used to have a Tsunami and it didn;t seem to make a whole lot of difference no matter how I tuned it - though I could make it sound really bad with really off the wall parameters. So I don't know how much use it would be, but the thing is - should they do it, any existing Loksound v5 will be able to be updated, no replacing the decoder.
George, if it's not too difficult, could you send me picture of the inside of your shell or post it? If you prefer email, I'll send you my email in a PM. Love to see how all the pieces fit together when your done. What size LEDs did you use for the number boards and how to keep from being too bright, change a CV, larger resistor, or? Awesome to speek with someone that has modified GP30's. I think they're an awesome loco!
IDRickI had hoped to use a roof mounted speaker but would require removing the light cone for the road numbers and headlight.
I have been taking out those blasted light pipe things and butchering them by cutting them into individual pieces such that I can glue on individual smd LEDs to a) get decent headlight illumination and b) light the number boards separately. I want a headlight that looks like a real headlight i.e. bright. And I don't want the number boards to be too bright and I don't want them to dim when the headlight is dimmed. I also want the number boards to be lit even if the headlight is off. So, I butcher. The technique has worked well so far. And of course it gives me more space for speakers .
George
IDRickHow do I check if my preferred prime mover is available? If I go to multiple online dealers, I can see it on the selection list for a V5 decoder. Add Quot
Go to the ESU website, download section, V5 section. Search for your PM or your loco.
BigDaddy You only get one.
You only get one.
Yikes, $85 and just one shot at a sound file? My number two is sounding better... I'm a loksound newbie so may be reacting too quickly...
ADD IN Never mind, did not know about lokprogrammer and how to download additional files... Found it!
What is the process, can only one project be loaded or can I order say all 645E to try them out?
wjstix One small point to remember is that a V5 Loksound decoder can only use V5 sound projects, so be sure the sounds you want are available in the V5 projects. (I suspect ESU will create V5 versions of the earlier sound projects in time, V5 is still pretty new at this point so not sure how soon it will happen.)
One small point to remember is that a V5 Loksound decoder can only use V5 sound projects, so be sure the sounds you want are available in the V5 projects. (I suspect ESU will create V5 versions of the earlier sound projects in time, V5 is still pretty new at this point so not sure how soon it will happen.)
Not true .... you can load any V4 (not Select) sound file onto the new V5 decoders.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
IDRick wjstix One small point to remember is that a V5 Loksound decoder can only use V5 sound projects, so be sure the sounds you want are available in the V5 projects. (I suspect ESU will create V5 versions of the earlier sound projects in time, V5 is still pretty new at this point so not sure how soon it will happen.) How do I check if my preferred prime mover is available? If I go to multiple online dealers, I can see it on the selection list for a V5 decoder.
How do I check if my preferred prime mover is available? If I go to multiple online dealers, I can see it on the selection list for a V5 decoder.
http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/18?page=3&count=10&order=date&type=diesel&country=us&cat=18
They have all the major ones now in V5 versions. Multiple variations of 567, 645, adn 710 for EMD, multiple GE, Alco, and others. The selection is pretty extensive now.
Thanks for sharing your experiences! I had hoped to use a roof mounted speaker but would require removing the light cone for the road numbers and headlight. Doable but not something want to do now. I agree, much larger area for sound to leave by front truck than through fan vents... Gonna be some trial and error on my first sound install, that's for sure!
Rick
IDRickGood thinking on the smaller decoder. I will removing some of the weight so I can add two sugar cube speakers beneath the fans so space should not be big issue
Streamline Backshop sells a sugar cube enclosure that fits under the cab roof. In fact I think they have a couple models, one has one speaker and the other two speakers. When mounted the enclosure is essentially invisible.
I purchased one of these to replace an ESU 50321 that I had previously mounted under the roof of a GP9. The ESU was configured to use the full baffle set so was relatively large and protruded a little into the headspace of the engineer and fireman. In fact I had to layoff the fireman to make it fit. With the SBS speaker, I could rehire him as space was no longer an issue. That said, I liked the sound of the ESU enclosure better. I think the extra volume of that enclosure makes a difference. The SBS isn't terrrible, it just sounds a little thinner. I might try the SBS double speaker version to see if that sounds better.
BTW, theoretically speaking, mounting under the cab roof should provide decent sound since there is usually an opening underneath it that lets the sound out around the gear tower. I've read that getting the sound out that way is superior to emitting it up through fan openings.
Have fun!
No, mine are GP7's. By second generation time, like the GP30, most railroads were running them short hood forward, Southern and a few others excepted. As delivered, more railroads ran first gen units long hood forward, steam loco style.
Sorry I guess I was think of TCS and thought it was shrink wrapped.
Randy, yes, I plan to rewire as you did in the above picture. I have 2.5 inches of length available for the decoder and wiring. The standard decoder is 1.2 inches and the micro is 0.8 inches. Does save space as you suggest. Speaker location will be a challenge, most of the sugar cubes that I've seen for sale are 8 mm or more in depth. I will need to remove at least 4 mm of depth behind the decoder if the speaker sits on weight, more if on top of wiring. I could remove part weight over slot for the rear light to give an extra inch of length.
Is that a GP30? My P2K looks different. For example, on my locomotive, there is no metal clip over the front truck and the cover over the rear light is not square. My GP30's are BN and nearly all pictures the I've seen have short hood forward when at the head of a train. see: https://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr2017.htm
Conrail ran same http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/emd/gp30/gp30.html
You could just hard wire it in completely. Life Like locos are a bit backwards, the factory board with the diodes plugs in to a small board that just has the wires going to the pickups and the motor. So if you remove that and leave just the wiring board, you have a good bit of space in the notch already there. Their plug board is pretty large for being just an 8 pin socket, mainly because of those plastic clips that hold the wires on - it's easy enough to remove those and solder like to like and free up even more space. That's how I do all my Geeps. Like so:
Lots of room where the factory board used to be. V5 Micro I don't think is any bigger than the T1, so you might get one speaker back there and another in the cab.
I also flip the motor wires when I install the decoder, grey to orange, orange to grey, so that it runs the right way - mine are supposed to be long hood forward, Life Like even decaled them that way, but then put the crew figures in facing the short hood and if you just plug a decoder in, it runs short hood forward.
Thanks Randy!
Couldn't find the picture of a clear sleeve over the decoder... Must have dreamt it or something...
How long is that 8 pin harness? Seems to me that a 1 inch harness would be easier to tuck under the shell than a long harness. Or better yet, I could cut off the 8 pin connector and splice the respective wires together after cutting to length needed (IE red wire on locomotive to red wire on the decoder, etc).
"One of those Life Like models has the usual directional constant headlights, but then they added additional lights for the number boards that were wired directly across the motor - you will need to rewire that as well. " There is a clear plastic cone in the shell that directs light fthe the lamp to the number boards and the headlights. So I don't believe I would need to do additional rewiring in that regard as I was planning to just put LED just outside the cone (allowing shell removal without disturbing the headlight.
Good thinking on the smaller decoder. I will removing some of the weight so I can add two sugar cube speakers beneath the fans so space should not be big issue. Plus, I could more easily splice wires from the larger decoder than the micro one.
Thanks Randy, I was hoping you would chime in! You've always given me excellent advice, most appreciated. As you recommended earlier, I will be using T1-LED decoders on my Athearn GP 38-2s.
Select and V4 decoders have been discontinued. The V5 range is the current product. V5 DCC is all you need - the others are multi-protocol but unless you plan to operate on a Maerklin layout you don't need that. The 58420 is what you want, there are no built in resistors. You will have to add your own to change to LEDs. One of those Life Linke models has the usual directional constant headlights, but then they added additional lights for the number boards that were wired directly across the motor - you will need to rewire that as well. There are solder pads on the decoder for extra functions.
The 58820 may fit better, that's the V5 DCC Micro. It can handle up to 3/4 amp motor.
I'm not sure what you mean by a cover on the decoder. Most ESU decoders are not shrink wrapped.
Yes, you'd want at least two speakers in series, and don't turn the master volume up to full - not only would it exceed the speaker rating and eventually damage the speaker, it won't sound good anyway pushed to distortion like that.
Be sure to specify the sound file you want loaded when you buy it, otherwise you will get a blank decoder.
Thanks Henry, you're always Johnny on the spot! Thumbs up!
3) Intimidating manual, lots to learn!
4) LOL, naked pictures! Good one!
6) As I recall, Watts are additive between the speakers so two 1 W speakers would use two W at max power. The 3 W amp could take out the speakers if at full power. The resistors add in a series circuit so would provide 16 ohms. Three speakers would fit the bill but I don't know of any three compartment enclosures... Anyone?
I don't see any Selects for sale at any of the usual suspects, except nscale versions. I guess they have migrated to V5.
3) The V5 manual is downloadable, you need resistors, I recommend 1000 ohms.
4) I think they are just neked pictures. They come covered in shrink wrap
5) Make sure you order the EMD sound package
6) My brain had a hard drive crash and I have completely lost understanding of Ohm's law.
I've been toying with adding sound to my P2K GP30's and could possibly add later to an atlas GP38-2. Tons of video on youtube comparing decoders, speakers, etc. To narrow the search, I looked for reviews with EMD 567 turbo and EMD 645E prime movers with Loksound, Tsumani 2, and TCS Wow diesel sound files. Especially wanted to listen to files with sugar cube speakers. Wise move as it really made the choice fairly easy. In my opinion, for my two prime movers, Loksound ranked first, Tsumani 2 a close second, and TCS third based on sound quality. Very helpful to focus on my specific prime movers. I find turbos to be annoying and really like the sound file for EMD 645E and may use it on both the GP30 & GP38-2. I'm not a prototype modeler so it is okay. :-) Some questions.
1) ESU lists Loksound Selects as being available in USA but I can't find them at the big on-stores. Have they been discontinued?
2) If they are available, the 73400 select appears to be the easy choice for my DCC Ready GP-30 (8 pin connection). Correct?
3) Are there on-board resistors to protect the LED's or do I need to add a resistor? Specs do not state one way or the other for Select or version 5.
4) I have seen pictures of plastic covers over Loksound decoders. Are they added to the parts package?
5) If selects are not available, it appears to me that the ESU 58420 is the sound decoder of choice with an 8 pin harness. Correct?
6) This decoder has a 3 W amplifier and 4 to 32 ohm impedance allowed. Probably need at least two 1 W, 8 ohm speakers wired in series, correct?