Wiring a Working Crossing Signal for DC Operation

[GNMT76]

This is an edited version of my original post, as I believe I should have written "opto sensor" in lieu of "detector."

My HO layout runs on DC. I'd like to wire a crossing signal such as the one in this link without going completely digital, if possible.

That is, no detector circuit boards. Possible?

https://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/new-crossing-signals.123324/full&d=1436201455

So aside from a required opto sensor between the ties, is it possible to wire the crossing signal so that the lights flash and can be turned on and off by use of a center-off DPDT toggle switch or some other simple electrical component connected to an AC/DC power pack (the one that controls the Tortoises on my layout) and an opto sensor?   Or, is such a elemental setup incompatible with an opto sensor?

In brief: An opto sensor between the rails + a center-off DPDT toggle switch on the fascia + a power pack (using the AC or DC terminal?) + wiring to all three. Not a circuit board in sight.

Will that setup work? Such a wiring scheme compatible with an opto sensor?

Thanks!

[MisterBeasley]

Well, that happens to be a picture from my layout, so I'll give what help I can.

This is a signal from Oregon Rail Supply.  It is just the crossbucks and lights.  I bought a detector/flasher system from Rob Paisley's web site.

http://www.circuitous.ca/CircuitIndex.html

 

This system does not care how you power your track.  You could use a wooden Brio train you push with your hand.  It takes 12 volts DC, which goes directly to the detector, and the circuit board supplies the flashing lights directly.  The circuit provides 6 photo detectors (visible light) to detect the arrival and departure of the trains at the crossing.  Rob and I exchanged e-mails and he was very helpful in giving advice to set this up.

I also have a pair of crossing gates from NJ International.  Again, I used a slightly different detector board that also supports gates.  In my case, I drove the gates with a Tortoise and Circuitron linkages, but again, the detection circuit does the work and you just connect everything to the board, the lights flash and gates go up and down.

[gmpullman]

Similar to the setup Mr. Beasley describes, I used the Grade Crossing Pro from Logicrail (two of them, actually since mine are on a double-track main) and crossing flashers from NJ International.

Mine are photocell activated but if I were to install another one I would use the InfraRed detection.

Look up Grade crossing Pro here:

https://www.logicrailtech.com/

There are .pdf support documents on the site describing how to wire for several scenarios. I also used the ITT crossing bell sound unit.

https://www.logicrailtech.com/xcart/home.php?cat=260

Good Luck, Ed

[MisterBeasley]

A friend brought over a REAL crossing bell.  It actually ran on 12 volts, so I hooked it up to my HO scale detector.  It sure was loud.  I didn't leave it connected long because I had no idea what the current draw was, but that circuit did drive it for a while and did not fail.

[RR_Mel]

I use NJI crossings with gates, originally I used a Logic Rail Grade Crossing Pro Controller.  I powered the gates with a single Tortoise.  Here is a link to my Blog post.

 

https://melvineperry.blogspot.com/2014/06/june-4-2014-logic-rail-gcp.html

 

I have since cut over to an Arduino UNO and dual servos to operate the gates.  I still use the IR beam across dual tracks for control.  The trees have worked out very good much better than I expected.  So far visitors haven’t spotted the sensors in the tree trunks.  They have spotted the holes in the rocks but most have run their hand down the rails before finding the holes, they never think to look for the IR beam between the tree trunks.

 

The Logic Rail Grade Crossing Pro Controller works very good, I highly recomend it.  I cut over to the Arduino for the mounting interchanablity with the rest of my controllers.

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

 

[saronaterry]

On average, what does a single track, run of the mill crossing flashing set of lights/ detectors/ etc. cost? Just very basic the lights flash before and after the train. No crossarms. DCC, but hooked up seperate from  my Digitrax system. For electronic dummies.

Terry

[GNMT76]

Gentlemen,

I believe you misread the post and the questions. I've edited it a bit.

[RR_Mel]

You will need some kind circuitry to flash the bulbs unless you do it yourself with a switch.  That will get old in a hurry.

 

Mel

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

[MisterBeasley]

saronaterry

On average, what does a single track, run of the mill crossing flashing set of lights/ detectors/ etc. cost? Just very basic the lights flash before and after the train. No crossarms. DCC, but hooked up seperate from  my Digitrax system. For electronic dummies.

Terry

My crossbucks (2 pair) were$16 and a single photo detector and flasher controller was $29.00.   I also needed a 12 volt DC power supply and connecting wire.  The amount of wire surprised me.  Putting those detectors out some distance from the controller and providing power was most of it.

I bought the controller already assembled and tested.  The crossbucks were a kit.

[gmpullman]

GNMT76

That is, no circuit boards or other high tech components. Possible?

I had a Tyco one years ago that relied on a bronze strip supported just over the top of one rail. As the wheels of the train passed over the strip it was depressed to complete the circuit to the pair of bulbs on the crossarms.

No digital, no circuit board.

You can probably still find one at train shows or eBay.

Good luck, Ed

[GNMT76]

gmpullman

 GNMT76

That is, no circuit boards or other high tech components. Possible?

 I had a Tyco one years ago that relied on a bronze strip supported just over the top of one rail. As the wheels of the train passed over the strip it was depressed to complete the circuit to the pair of bulbs on the crossarms.

No digital, no circuit board.

You can probably still find one at train shows or eBay.

Good luck, Ed

 

 

Ed,

 

You're on the right track for what I have in mind (DC minds must think alike!).  But I want to be able to control the crossing signal lights independently of a train running over that section of track and not have them come on each time the train rolls over that strip of bronze you once used. 

[rrinker]

 Then what you need is a simple flasher circuit. This is how simple it gets:

http://www.555-timer-circuits.com/flashing-railroad-lights.html

Wire a toggle switch to the power input. Turn it on, flashers flash, turn it off, flashers don't flash. No sensors, no anything, controlled by you flipping the switch (or use a pushbutton, hold it down as long as needed, flashers stop when released).

                                               --Randy

 

[hobo9941]

I use the Busch crossing signals, which come with a flasher circuit, and I just use a simple toggle switch. I also have a crossing bell circuit and small speaker connected to the same toggle switch.

[MisterBeasley]

If I am just loop-running and rail fanning my layout, or operating the trains and doing switching, I would rather not have the extra task of operating flashers or gates manually.  Time with my automated system convinces me that this was the way for me to go.

I suppose you could wire a relay to a flasher circuit and control it from your DCC throttle with a stationary decoder.

[GNMT76]

rrinker

 Then what you need is a simple flasher circuit. This is how simple it gets:

http://www.555-timer-circuits.com/flashing-railroad-lights.html

Wire a toggle switch to the power input. Turn it on, flashers flash, turn it off, flashers don't flash. No sensors, no anything, controlled by you flipping the switch (or use a pushbutton, hold it down as long as needed, flashers stop when released).

                                               --Randy

Very interesting, Randy.  Where can I buy such a circuit?

 

 

[GNMT76]

hobo9941

I use the Busch crossing signals, which come with a flasher circuit, and I just use a simple toggle switch. I also have a crossing bell circuit and small speaker connected to the same toggle switch.

 

 

Thanks, Hobo.  Does it need a DPDT or SPST toggle switch?  What do you use as a detector for the train or is it included in the circuit itself?

[ricktrains4824]

I'm a bit confused....

If you are using the optical sensor/detector, you will need the circuit boards that use such imput to turn on/off the flasher circuit. This does not require an on/off toggle switch. Just have the power controlled at the same place your main layout power is.

If you are using a simple on/off toggle switch to control the flasher circuit, you have zero need for the circuit board for the detector. You also have zero need for the detector sensor itself.

If you are not using the circuit boards for the detector, it will not work at all, thereby making it a useless add on. This will make you require a on/off toggle switch to control the flashers circuit.

As for the Busch signals, the included circuit is flasher circuitry, as long as there is power to the circuit, the flashers will flash. It can be controlled by a simple on/off toggle switch, or a separate detector circuit.

[RR_Mel]

GNMT76

This is an edited version of my original post, as I believe I should have written "opto sensor" in lieu of "detector."

My HO layout runs on DC. I'd like to wire a crossing signal such as the one in this link without going completely digital, if possible.

That is, no detector circuit boards. Possible?

https://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?media/new-crossing-signals.123324/full&d=1436201455

So aside from a required opto sensor between the ties, is it possible to wire the crossing signal so that the lights flash and can be turned on and off by use of a center-off DPDT toggle switch or some other simple electrical component connected to an AC/DC power pack (the one that controls the Tortoises on my layout) and an opto sensor?   Or, is such a elemental setup incompatible with an opto sensor?

In brief: An opto sensor between the rails + a center-off DPDT toggle switch on the fascia + a power pack (using the AC or DC terminal?) + wiring to all three. Not a circuit board in sight.

Will that setup work? Such a wiring scheme compatible with an opto sensor?

Thanks!

 

NO!!!!

 

We need to start over. 

 

The crossing signal has two lights that flash alternately on and off.

 

The lights may be either incandescent bulbs or LEDs.

 

There must be a circuit or flasher that flashes the above lights.

 

To turn on the flashing lights it will need either a switch (simple SPST) or a device between the flasher and the power supply.

 

The device can be any type of switch or circuit that will turn the voltage on and off.

 

A reflective optical detector can be used but it will need a delayed OFF or it will go on and off between cars. 

 

A beam break optical detector can be angled across the track so that the beam will not see the gap between the cars.

 

Either of the above, reflective or beam break detectors only work when actually detecting without some built in delay, a quick on and off.

 

To make a crossing operate you must have some type of circuits to perform the above actions.

 

OK, your turn.

 

 

Mel

 

 

 

My Model Railroad   

http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

 

Bakersfield, California

 

I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

 

 

[GNMT76]

ricktrains4824

If you are using a simple on/off toggle switch to control the flasher circuit, you have zero need for the circuit board for the detector. You also have zero need for the detector sensor itself.

If you are not using the circuit boards for the detector, it will not work at all, thereby making it a useless add on. This will make you require a on/off toggle switch to control the flashers circuit.

Ricky,

Not knowing exactly what else, if anything, I would need in combination with a DPDT toggle switch, that was basically the gist of my question: "Is it possible...?"

So if I understand correctly, a center-off DPDT:

1) could be used without a detector sensor and

2) would turn the flashers on-off, making their use totally under my manual control

This would work?

[MisterBeasley]

My system, which uses the Rob Paisley circuit with train detection, uses LED light on the crossbucks, which plug directly into the circuit, which tells me that particular circuit is designed for LEDs, not for incandescent bulbs.  Make sure however you connect the illumination that you use appropriate resistors based on bulb type.

[rrinker]

 You do not need anything so fancy as a DPDT center off toggle. To manually operate a crossing flasher, at most you need a SPST switch, in one of the power leads to the circuit. Turn it on, light flash, etc. Turn it off, they stop. Just like turning a light on and off, only instead of a simple light bulb, you are controlling the power to a circuit that makes 2 lights flash back and forth alternately.

                                       --Randy

 

[GNMT76]

[quote user="rrinker"]

 You do not need anything so fancy as a DPDT center off toggle. To manually operate a crossing flasher, at most you need a SPST switch, in one of the power leads to the circuit. Turn it on, light flash, etc. Turn it off, they stop. Just like turning a light on and off, only instead of a simple light bulb, you are controlling the power to a circuit that makes 2 lights flash back and forth alternately.

                                       --Randy

Thanks, Randy.  The K.I.S.S. principle at work.