Tonight I downloaded a sound project (S0770) and installed it into a Loksound 5 decoder.
I played around with CV285 and managed to change the bell rate with the confirmation that the ring rate increases or decreases as the value is raised or lowered from 128 but this ALSO changes the pitch of the audio along with the rate.
This is true of the Loksound Select as well.
ESU points out that this feature can be used to slightly vary the pitch of the prime mover and I believe the pitch of the horn files can be increased or decreased as well.
Changing the prime mover pitch can help avoid harmonic distortion when running multiple engines with the same prime mover sound. Likewise, a slightly "de-tuned" horn can sound realistic as some horns began to get a little wheezy with age and worn diaphragms.
I varied the values in CV 285 from 1 to 254 and, as expected, got sounds like a giant church bell with a low value to a vintage British ambulance at the higher value. CV 285=0 disables the bell.
You can find a sweet spot right around the default 128 but straying too far from there will offer some unrealistic sounds.
With the LokSound 5 ESU is at least offering more bells and horn choices than previously. That's good news!
Just when I thought I was getting familiar with the LokProgrammer I opened this sound page on the latest version!
ESU by Edmund, on Flickr
This is going to take some getting used to.
Regards, Ed
Hello Henry,
Thank you for the information, it's very much appreciated.
Serge
scribbelt Hello henry, I'm sorry if my question wasn't clear. You wrote: CV 31=1 CV32=1 CV285 =64 CV 31=16 CV32=1 CV285 =64 You entered twice CV's 31, 32 and 285 with different values. Do I have to enter all of them or just the last sequence: CV 31=16 CV32=1 CV285 =64 Thank you
Hello henry,
I'm sorry if my question wasn't clear.
You wrote:
You entered twice CV's 31, 32 and 285 with different values.
Do I have to enter all of them or just the last sequence:
Thank you
I see why you are confused. Some of us who didn't read the whole manual, nor the Rapido manual, did not know why the OP made CV31=16 and Tom asked if CV31 really had any effect.
I used the lokprogramer to reverse engineer and reduce the bell rate and then looked if CV 285 changed with CV31=1 and CV31=16. It only changed when CV31=16
In answer to your question, just the last sequence:
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Hello Tom,
Thank you, it's duly noted.
Serge,
I fixed your response. FYI: Be sure to place your text after the quoted text you are referencing - i.e. after the bracketed "/quote". Otherwise, your response gets lost in the grayed area of the quote.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
BigDaddy scribbelt Do I have to enter all those CV's before and after or do I just enter the after CV's? I am not sure I understand you question. Think of the Index CV's as the front door of a fancy apartment building You have to be buzzed in by those CV's to get to the elevator (the bell CV's) I would read those Index CV's 31, 32 to see what they are, to start with, but you don't really have to do that. You do need to write the new CV's
scribbelt Do I have to enter all those CV's before and after or do I just enter the after CV's?
I am not sure I understand you question. Think of the Index CV's as the front door of a fancy apartment building You have to be buzzed in by those CV's to get to the elevator (the bell CV's)
I would read those Index CV's 31, 32 to see what they are, to start with, but you don't really have to do that. You do need to write the new CV's
TO further the apartment analogy - say you have 4 towers of apartments in a complex. The index CVs are the ones that tell you which building, and which floor, because each floor has apartments 1-20. You can't just tell someone to come to apartment 20. Apartment 20 of which floor of which building? SO you say Building 2, 5th floor, apartment 20. That puts you in a specific location.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
scribbeltDo I have to enter all those CV's before and after or do I just enter the after CV's?
I have the same "bell rate" dilemma.
I'm trying to understand the CV values before and after.
I must admit I'm confused!
Do I have to enter all those CV's before and after or do I just enter the after CV's?
Thank you.
IF provided (and Rapido is good about this), a detailed manual from the loco maker, especially when they use their own custoom sound files, it definitely the best source of information. Part of this is because of the infinite flexibility of the function mapping/conditional operation that Loksound offers, with no defined standard on which rows in the table to use for what functions (not really practical), so you really MUST know what settings the creator of the sound file used, or any attempts to modify the operation are going to be next to impossible, if you don;t accidently wipe something important out (their caution about CV31 - set wrong you could be changing the CV that puts a condition on blowing the horn so it only works when the loco is moving backwards or something, set it correctly and you are adjusting the volume of the horn like you intended). (example - I didn;t check the manual to see if the sound slot volume for the horn happens to be the same base CV as the conditional CV used with the F2 key)
Yes, they are complicated - that's the price of ultimate flexibility. The huge bulk of those CVs though, are really just a repeating table for applying conditions to functions operation and/or what sound to play. It looks daunting - 2 pages of a spreadsheet looking list of CVs - hundreds and hundreds oof them. But take a closer look - the same CVs repeat, with an increment of the index in CV32 each time. And there aren't hundreds of different settings - the row across the top are the settings, there just are many rows so you can create complex 'programs' and still have enough 'memory' to do it - it's like programming but without a programming language, where each instruction needs to be in a specific memory location (CV). Like in BASIC you can right X=A+B or X=B+A and get the exact same result - the organizatiooon of the indexed CVs in the table means the one that selects which function key you need to press is always is always the same one, and the one that selects which sound slot to play is always the same one, and which function output wire gets turned on is always the same oone, rather than allowing you to put all that stuff in any random order you want. The only thing more they can do would be give direct access to the microcontroller's program, but that would make them nearly impossible to customize for even many who are pretty good with DCC. Like the Digitrax sound decoders - you actually do have that level access into them, but the complexity of that is why there aren't too many truly customized sound files, the main one being the one Fred Miller wrote for trolley sounds.
I looked in the V5 manual for bells not index CV's. My bad but I was the first to mention CV285 so it all balances out.
I like the Rapido manual better, especially when it warns Unspeakable things may happen if you change sound settings with CV31=1
Here is the link to the manual :
https://www.rapidotrains.com/sites/default/files/manuals/2019/09/32-Instructions_ENG_0.pdf
Guy
Modeling CNR in the 50's
tstage Glad my speculation was on the mark, Guy. I know about CV32. What does CV31 do? Tom
Glad my speculation was on the mark, Guy. I know about CV32. What does CV31 do?
I first try with CV 32 = 1 only and nothing happened. Reading the Rapido Trains manual again I found that before changing any sound CV, you should change CV 31 =16 and CV 32 = 1.
Thanks, Randy. I scanned through the Loksound 5 manual and completely overlooked that portion. Interesting how different the sequence is now to change the bell rate on the Lok 5 as compared to the Select...
Are you guys reading the same Loksoung v5 manual I just downlaoded? Page 68, section 12.2.1 talks about the index CVs, CV31 and CV32. Last line of that section says "At this state, CV31 must always have value 16. CV32 may have the values 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4"
Less than precise translation from German, I think, "At this state" I think may be better translated to the US English idiom "At this stage" meaning with the current firmware revision. I'm too lazy to try and find the same passage in the German language version and see if I can translate it myself right now.
Of course 2 pages past that, with the table for the conditionals and function mappings, the left half shows CV32 set to 3, 4 or 5 to configure the conditionals, and it lists CV32 at 8, 9, or 10 to configuring the mappings. ANd on the next page, continuing the mapping table, it has CV32 at 5, 6, or 7 for the conditional blocks and 10, 11, or 12 for the mapping block.
Page 79, the function effects page, shows setting CV31 to 16 and CV 32 to 0. Page 91 for the random functions shows setting CV31 to 16 and CV32 to 13.
So both are definitely used to index the CVs.
Henry,
What would happen if you just changed CV32 to "1" and didn't change CV31 then changed CV285 to something less than "128". Would the bell rate decrease? Or is CV31 found in locomotive-specific Loksound decoder literature?
Tom you threw the gauntlet down. I downloaded the RS18 project from ESU. It may not be exactly the same as Rapido's but bells is bells.
If CV 32 must equal 1, then the choices of CV 31 are 1 and 16
Before I changed CV 285
I changed sound speed from 100% which shows 128 in the window, to 50%, which shows 64 in the window.
I see CV32 listed as an index register in both the Loksound Select and the Loksound 5 manuals but not CV31. So, did CV31 really have any affect on the bell rate?
CV 31 is another index CV, how he determined it had to be 16 and not 1; I have no idea.
The lokprogrammer does give you the option of modifying sound speed in the sound slot setting page. I suppose you could print out a before and after list of CV's and see what changed.
You should tell ESU, maybe nobody has.
Guy PapillonProblem solved. Tom was right.
Guy PapillonInteresting that ESU doesn’t give the information in the Loksound 5 manual.
I agree, that stinks!
From the SELECT instruction booklet:
ESU_Select by Edmund, on Flickr
Glad you got it sorted out.
Problem solved. Tom was right. I changed the value of CV 285 after setting CV 31 to 16 and CV 32 to 1. I tried a few different values. Value 70 gave me exactly what I wanted.
Interesting that ESU doesn’t give the information in the Loksound 5 manual.
Thank you everyone,
Guy.
Maybe an email to Rapido will get you information on the exact sound project they used. Many of their ESU soundfiles are proprietary since they did lots of the recording at their expense.
Alternately, here is a possible sound project that contains the Alco/MLW 12-251C M420W (S0770)
Alco Bell Template Pack 2Bells (SoundCV10):CV164=0 ALCO Bronze Bell 001CV164=1 ALCO Bronze Bell 002CV164=2 ALCO Bronze Bell 008CV164=3 ALCO Bronze Bell 011CV164=4 Transtronic E-Bell 001CV164=5 MLW High Mount Bell(Default)
You should have these six choices unless Rapido uses a different sound project.
Looking at the RS18 manual it seems that there may only be two choices for your bell!
HORNS AND BELLS
Canadian Pacific and Canadian National both used two uniquely different horns – the Nathan M3H and the K3L – and we’ve included some of the best recordings out there of the real thing. The same goes with bells too, as they all seemed to have a unique tone or ring rate, whether they were brass or steel. The default horn on your model is a Nathan M3H. Because your locomotive is equipped with the new LokSound V5 decoder, if you wish to change the default horn, you can do so by changing CV 163.
For changing the default bell, change the value of CV 164.
• CV 164-0 - Steel Bell (Default)
• CV 164-1 - Brass Bell
• CV 163-0 Nathan M3H (Default) • CV 163-1 Nathan K3L #1 • CV 163-2 Nathan K3L #2
Note that after you change the horn or the bell you may need to cycle the power (turn it off and on). And changing the default horn automatically changes the doppler recording on F5 too. How’s that for a beauty way to go?
It helps to have a Lokprogrammer for these things which will read your existing sound project and allow you to install a completely different one. Again, a note to Rapido might help you find out exactly what your choices are.
Good Luck, Ed
gmpullman Exactly which sound project are you interested in, Guy? Good Luck, Ed
Exactly which sound project are you interested in, Guy?
I recently bought a Rapido Trains CNR RS-18 equipped with a Loksound 5. Following the instructions available in the booklet which came with the locomotive, I was able to modify all the CVs I wanted to change except for the fast bell for which there is no CV mentioned.
CV48 in the Select is NOT the "bell rate" CV, CV48 is the sound selection CV. It allowed a Select project to be loaded that had multiple prime movers, multiple horns, and multiple bells, and allowed the end user to switch between them without having to load a new sound project using a Lokproogrammer. A project may have had a fast bell and a slow bell, but it may also have had a air operated brass bell as one optioon and a modern electronic bell as another selection, so changing CV48 could change the bell, but what it really is doing is swapping in different sound clips for the bell function. Just like adjusting different bits of CV48 would change what horn played when you hit the horn button, or what prime mover sound was used.
I just opened the package and read the Quick Start Guide for the LokSound 5 and there is no mention of bell styles or rates. However, CV164 = Sound CV 10 is listed as Bell Select CV.
Therefore when browsing the sound files for the V5 I find these:
GE FDL-16:
GE U-Boats Bell Template Pack 1Bells (SoundCV10):CV164=0 GE M 6731022A Steel Bell 004CV164=1 GE M 6731022A Steel Bell 005CV164=2 GE M 6731022A Steel Bell 009CV164=3 GE M 6731022A Steel Bell 021
Baldwin VO-1000:
Bells (SoundCV10):CV164=0 Baldwin Brass Bell 001CV164=1 UKM B443 Steel Bell 005CV164=2 Steam Loco Air BellCV164=3 Steam Loco Rope Bell
EMD 16-645 F3B:
EMD 2nd Generation Bell Template Pack 3Bells (SoundCV10):CV164=0 EMD 8475495 Steel Bell 057CV164=1 EMD 8004156 Bronze Bell 005CV164=2 EMD 8004156 Bronze Bell 039CV164=3 EMD 8475495 Steel Bell 059CV164=4 EMD 8004156 Bronze Bell 045CV164=5 UKM B443 Steel Bell 004
You have to read the sound project bulletin (on the download page) and make your CV changes according to the "template" included in the file. Mentioned in the last paragraph here:
ESU_5 by Edmund, on Flickr
Okay, I just read CV285 on my lone Loksound 5 decoder and the default was "128". And I had to change CV32 to "1" in order to read it. Since it's the same default as the Loksound Select decoders, it's probably a safe bet that it does adjust the bell rate
I don't have a speaker wired up yet to that decoder so I can't verify that right now. Maybe Ed can with his set up.
Yea, the Loksound 5 manual seems to be incomplete. While CV283 adjusts the bell volume, CV285 (bell rate) isn't even listed.
My guess is that it still controls bell rate. The default was "128" for the Select decoders. You could always try reading CV285, record the value, then change it to a lower number. Just make sure you change CV32 to a value of "1" first before making any changes to CV285. If that doesn't adjust the rate, change it back to the default and email ESU.