I want to put sound decoders in my two Proto 2K Alco PAs. What brand and model will provide good sound, reliabilty and ease of installation? Looking for suggestions.
RicZ
I have an A-B(dummy)-B(powered) consist where I added ESU LokSound Select decoders to the powered units. They have an appropriate ALCO 244 (maybe not the right number of cylimders) sound file for the PAs. I used the 6AUX capsule form (not the "Direct" board replacement form). It has an 8-pin plug but I remove existing boards and hard wire everything, & add LED lighting. The current version is the Loksound 5 DCC. I don't recall if the "Direct" (circuit board replacement style) will physically replace the P2K board if you prefer that approach (easier wiring, to the solder pads).
EDIT: I found an old video and it seems I added dual 1.1" HiBass 8 ohm speakers. These were in parallel, the 4 ohm resultant load being ok for LokSound select. This probably(?) required milling the frame in the back of the A unit, with the decoder probably in the opening behind the cab. I am happy with the results, including the motor performance.
Another option will be a TCS WowSound. These tend to get positive comments also. Don't know if an appropriate motor recording available? It appears that for the PA, they have a prototype installation shown, and a "kit" of things that fit nicely is to be issued "soon". Maybe give them a call. One very nice thing about the WowSounds is that (some, or all?) may include a built in Keep Alive. On that note, I did not add a capacitor pack to my LokSound, as I only add it to about 10% of my locos that may be a bit more susceptible to slightly dirty track. Looks easy.
https://tcsdcc.com/installation/ho-scale/1415
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I have two sets of the older Life Like Proto 2000 PA PB locomotives. The PA is non-sound out of the box, and the PB is a dummy locomotive.
I have long considered adding sound which I would do by placing a sound decoder and speaker in the dummy PB unit. Has anyone done this?
Rich
Alton Junction
I did that with a dummy F7B from Stewart, but the hardest part there was already taken care of - the dummy units had metal wheels and the pickups were in place same as on the powered units, I just had to soolder wires on where the powered units had their wires attached. No idea if the P2K PB dummies are the same, easy if they are, otherwise you will have to attach pickups of some sort to get power. I did this a long time ago, there was no such thing as the sugarcube speaker, but since I had a rather vast open space to work with, I used the largest speaker I could fit. The structure of the frame of those Stewart F7s made it easy to baffle the speaker by more or less dividing the space in half horizontally - I used a realtivelt thick piece of styrene that fit in place dividing basically the engine room area into two spaces, top half and bottom half, to form the enclosure for the speaker.
It needs to be updated with a modern decoder, and I think I'd replace the speaker with something better, perhaps one of those array of sugercubes enclosures that SBS sells. Such a speaker arrangment should also be a good fit for inside a dummy PB.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker I did that with a dummy F7B from Stewart, but the hardest part there was already taken care of - the dummy units had metal wheels and the pickups were in place same as on the powered units, I just had to soolder wires on where the powered units had their wires attached. No idea if the P2K PB dummies are the same, easy if they are, otherwise you will have to attach pickups of some sort to get power.
I did that with a dummy F7B from Stewart, but the hardest part there was already taken care of - the dummy units had metal wheels and the pickups were in place same as on the powered units, I just had to soolder wires on where the powered units had their wires attached.
No idea if the P2K PB dummies are the same, easy if they are, otherwise you will have to attach pickups of some sort to get power.
But, my thought was to string a wire harness from the powered PA to the unpowered PB and add a sound decoder and speakers in the PB where there is plenty of room. The challenge is to find and install some sort of male to female connector between the PA and the PB.
Any thoughts?
You could get away with as few as 4 wires if you put the decoder in the A unit - there's plenty of rooom for the decoder. You'd only have 2 power wires to parallel the pickups (or just leave it off, it's a loong, heavy locoo and shouldn;t have problems with power dropouts anyway), and 2 for the speaker. So possibly, simply 2 wires for a monster speaker install. For that, you could mount a small 1/8" socker in the door (inside the diaphragm) on the A unit. Would be mostly invisible when the A unit was isolated. Use the kind that has a contact in it, and put a sugearcube in the A unit, and the A would have sound on its own, but plugged in to the B, it would have super sound.
Rich, Randy's idea is very appealing! The decoder in the A unit, with speaker, plus the B unit with speaker/plug (2 wires) is a neat idea. You have some sound coming from the A unit and the B unit, plus more low frequency quality added from the B unit if a nice Big enclosure.
I used dual 1.1" HiBass speakers in my powered A & B units (each with a decoder). But I find that a really nice big enclosure with dual sugarcubes can be impressive, so today I would shift that direction.
My favorite option (there are many) with an unpowered B might be:
- decoder in the A unit (remove the circuit boards & add LED lighting)
- dual (why not) micro ("sugarcube") 13x18mm speakers in the A unit with max size 0.040" styrene enclosure, trimming the weight within reason, as that helps enclosure size
- dual (quad??) 13x18mm micro speakers in a Really Big styrene enclosure, requiring the 2-wire A to B connection
I have experimented with the micros and more enclosure size (larger volumes) makes a very significant difference. My LokSound Selects were good for 4-16 ohm load, so I could wire 2, 3, or 4 micros to get an acceptable load for the decoder. It was fun to experiment. Of course, at one point I was finding good 13x18mm micro speakers for under $3.
Let us know the outcome. One regret I have is not taking enough documentation photos when into a DCC conversion project...too task oriented.
rrinker You could get away with as few as 4 wires if you put the decoder in the A unit - there's plenty of rooom for the decoder. You'd only have 2 power wires to parallel the pickups (or just leave it off, it's a loong, heavy locoo and shouldn;t have problems with power dropouts anyway), and 2 for the speaker. So possibly, simply 2 wires for a monster speaker install. For that, you could mount a small 1/8" socker in the door (inside the diaphragm) on the A unit. Would be mostly invisible when the A unit was isolated. Use the kind that has a contact in it, and put a sugearcube in the A unit, and the A would have sound on its own, but plugged in to the B, it would have super sound. --Randy
peahrens Rich, Randy's idea is very appealing! The decoder in the A unit, with speaker, plus the B unit with speaker/plug (2 wires) is a neat idea. You have some sound coming from the A unit and the B unit, plus more low frequency quality added from the B unit if a nice Big enclosure. Let us know the outcome. One regret I have is not taking enough documentation photos when into a DCC conversion project...too task oriented.
Do I just drill holes in the shells and feed the wiring through? Or, do I set up a male connector on one unit and a female connector on the other unit? That is the challenge that I am still trying to work out.
By the way, I didn't mean to hijack the OP's thread. I hope that this discussion has been helpful to him.
I've got to bookmark this discussion as I have been looking at lots of ideas for sound & dcc in my Proto 2K PA's,...just have to get my layout up and running so I can spend some time actually doing these DCC projects.I've also got a few other similar projects such as sound/dcc into my Santa Fe DL109 sets, A&B, 109/110
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Paul did mention a critical part of my little fantasy idea. If you only have one speaker in the A, and then you plug in the B and add 3 or 4 (or more), you have to make sure it's all wired to give an impedence the decoder can work with withooout frying the amp because it's too low, or getting really quiet sound because it's too high. Loksound is a good choice because they support a wide range.
Basementdweller,
How much of the weight did you have to remove and where was the decoder placed?
RicZBasementdweller, How much of the weight did you have to remove and where was the decoder placed?
I can't speak for Basementdweller but I can mention that the Life-Like PA series has plenty of room under the hood for a decent sound installation without doing much filing, if any. Sometimes I file down any "bosses" or locating pins that remain from the former board mounts.
TCS has a very good reference for various installations at their site. Here is an example of the L-L PA:
(They mention drilling and tapping new mounting holes for their board but I didn't find this necessary with the proliferation of good silicone adhesives and Kapton tapes out there)
Use caution. If you DO decide to do any filing either remove the motor or be extremely careful not to allow any filings to get near the motor
I have very good results with using sugar cube speakers and there is plenty of room for at least two of these in the powered PA. Sure, if you have an unpowered dummy you have even more room to play with.
Here is a tutorial on using multiple speakers:
http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstipstricks/wiringmultispeakers.html
and a little background information on Sugar Cubes. I happen to like the ESU Loksound enclosures as they are versatile and sound good but there are plenty of others:
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/esu-50321-loksound-speaker-11mm-x-15mm-square-8-ohms-0-5w-with-sound-chamber-set/
The above speaker can fit into a GP or SD engine as well. I have purchased a more elaborate baffle kit from ESU but I have not had an opportunity to try it out yet.
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/esu-50340-speaker-set-dual-11x15mm-modular-soundbox-kit-for-28mm-20x40mm-16x35mm/
There are many other options. Of course you can make your own, too.
Good Luck, Ed