Hi all,
First time getting involved in DCC, Ive been reading up on Bus wiring, feeders etc. But im realizing there will have to be some sort of booster involved. My layout is approx. 22 ft x 12ft using double track mains. Though not purchased, I will be using a NCE cab unit. (pro starter 5A) Is there a relative position for the booster? Would I need a bus wire for each maineline or do i feed off of one wire to power the entire layout? I just want to make sure I do this once so I dont have to crawl under there after i lay the plywood down. Thanks
That should not be a large enough layout to require a booster. You need more power for more engines, not more track. If you are running multiple 3-engine powered consists with sound, maybe, but normal service should not make a booster necessary.
You might want to completely separate the mains with separate bus lines, but it's not necessary. You can subdivide your layout with circuit breakers, which makes troubleshooting easier.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I'd wait for some other opinions, because while size does matter, I don't think you are there yet to need a booster.
The books like to show lots of power boosters and power districts. Makes sense if you have a team running your railroad. If you are the sole operator, you need to deal with a derailment and short and it doesn't matter if it shuts down the whole layout.
Pick two colors for your bus wire and two colors for your feeders and stick to it, don't use scraps of this and that. Large gauge stranded wire is a lot more enjoyable to work with than solid.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
The answer is entirely dependent on two factors:
Your power needs; and
How you'll draw that power.
If you're likely to have two two-diesel lashups running concurrently, one on each main, 3 amps should suffice, and a single bus running bi-directionally away from your track power outputs where your throttle is would suffice. It would be about 14 12 gauge, stranded or single wire doesn't matter a great deal. As you probably know, it's the voltage drop that we worry about, and over 22' with 14 guage you might get close to half a volt, but only with really bad metal.
If you're likely to double that requirement, say with six or eight diesels, you'd want maybe 5 amps for security, but not more wire. Once you start to amass a heftier amperage requirement because you're holding sessions with multiple operators and each is managing a large and heavy train, it might make sense to have a single booster running each loop, especially near the far end if your bus goes one direction from the power outputs.
This is important. Long buses mean you need boosters rather than over-long. Same for power needs, especially for longer buses. But, if you T off the power outputs, and run two directions around a loop, now your bus wires should suffice. In that case, you only need to make sure your feeders up to the rails are sufficient for the requirement. Maybe spaced every 6' on average, with adjustments over gaps.
Now, say you have a large classification yard, and it's busy. This might be a case for one booster to manage. Shorts happen in yards where metal tires bridge rails at the frog at times, and it would be nice to not have the entire layout shut down....right? The booster would detect shorts and manage them before the main system does, and operators out on the main won't be affected.
Thanks everyone for you words of wisdom. I think it’s true that literature makes me assume that boosters are needed when mentioning medium to large layouts but then not classifying what medium to large is. That being said, I’ll continue my journey without boosters and run my buses all over the place as needed. I’ll pretty much be running 2 engine units on the mains and maybe one or 2 on my Short lines so 4-6 trains running at any given time.
as far as the 12 gauge wire, do I need to use a specific brand or can I grab some from the hardware Store?
Now is the time to plan for the future. As you've already mentioned, it is a lot easier to do bus wiring now, while the layout can be tipped on its side for access. While you're at it, think of busses for structure lighting, electromagnetic uncouplers and the like. The suggestion about a separate bus for a yard is one you also might think of.
This costs nothing more than the costs of the wire and a few terminal blocks if you are building your layout in sections for later removal or reconfiguration. With the track already gapped and each main run on a separate bus, it's easy to break a single connection and add a booster, if necessary.
It was years before I broke my layout into sections with circuit breakers, but when I did it only took a couple of evenings to insert the breakers into the already-separate busses.
Esyon, are you talking about the NCE Power Cab which is a starter set with 2 amps of power or rhe NCE PH Pro which is an advanced 5 amp system?
The PH Pro 5 amp system includes a built-in 5 amp booster. That should be all you need for a 22' x 12' layout with a double mainline. I have the PH Pro 5 amp system powering my 42' x 25' layout with a double mainline. It runs off of the built-in 5 amp booster.
You can run both of your mainlines off a single bus. If you want separate control over each mainline in the event of a short, you would install a separate bus for each mainline, and each bus would be protected by a separate circuit breaker. In that event, both circuit breakers would run off of one booster.
Rich
Alton Junction
Esyon I’ll pretty much be running 2 engine units on the mains and maybe one or 2 on my Short lines so 4-6 trains running at any given time. as far as the 12 gauge wire, do I need to use a specific brand or can I grab some from the hardware Store?
I’ll pretty much be running 2 engine units on the mains and maybe one or 2 on my Short lines so 4-6 trains running at any given time.
Good luck with trying to run 4 to 6 trains at a time unless you are talking about combining locos in consists. I have tried to run 2 trains on each of my double mainlines at the same time and my layout is double your size. It is not easy to do so nowadays I run only one train on each mainline, while working a switcher in the yards. As a lone wolf operator, it is easy to get overwhelmed by running several trains at the same time.
Rich,
definately in consist. I don't have skill for that many trains at once haha.
Brand isn't a big deal when it comes to wire. Of course, your home had 14 ga solid wire, so it's not like it's impossible to deal with.
These wire strippers are especially nice, they can move the insulation sideways, giving you room to solder feeders to the bus. The alternative is to use insulation displacement connectors, IDC also called suitcase connectors, because they look like little suitcases. These come in sizes specific to the different wires you intend to splice together. 3M are superior to Chicom knock offs.
BigDaddy These wire strippers are especially nice, they can move the insulation sideways, giving you room to solder feeders to the bus.
These wire strippers are especially nice, they can move the insulation sideways, giving you room to solder feeders to the bus.
The above wire strippers BigDaddy mentioned would be great. I have a older pair, different brand, that work on the same principal, cut then slides the insulation down the wire. I try to make a space of about 1/2''.
Just don't strip both the buse wires at the same location across from each other. Move the stripped feeder to buse joints about two inches apart. If the buse wires get pushed/pulled those feeder to buse joints will not get against each other and short out the system, they will be two inches apart.
Those specific ones look like the grabber part is plastic. For a little more money you can get the Klein or Ideal ones which are all metal. Highly recommended. Had them for years now, built two layouts with them, working on a third.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
If you can, mount your booster near the center of your layout. This will keep the wire runs as short as possible. I use these:
I run the mains out to a pair of these and then run the feeders to the track from these.
I have purchased them from LED-switch. I'm sure there are other suppliers.
SouthPenn If you can, mount your booster near the center of your layout. This will keep the wire runs as short as possible. I use these: I run the mains out to a pair of these and then run the feeders to the track from these. I have purchased them from LED-switch. I'm sure there are other suppliers.
I got mine at the local Home Depot. They work well.
I would also recommend that you follow Larry Puckett in MR, at www.dccguy.com and DCC Guy on YouTube. He has covered a multitude of DCC questions and is excellent at answering specific questions.
Ken Vandevoort
Little late to the party here...........
In building my first DCC layout - HO 11 x 22 with second level staging - I understood that I could "get away" with just a 5 amp system. However, I choose to double that, having the Digitrax 5 amp plus a 5 amp booster.
To spread that power around, I initially came up (in the design phase) with 4 power districts but doubled (each with their own breaker) that for the final version.
While I am pretty certain I could have gotten away with less, I wanted to make sure I would never want for more power or more power districts. Anyway, the layout was wired up in 2009, and I have had zero regrets for what I have done.
Being from Chicago, I'm told I have a tendency for "over-kill" in my projects, but I can happily say what I've done in that regard always works.
Gotta add one thing........be it dcc or dc - but especially dcc - you gotta have plenty of track feeders. For me, it was every 4-5 feet and every stub track. Believe me, no one ever does that and later on looks back and regrets doing so.
Oh, while Bus lines can be solid or stranded (14 - 12 awg), feeder wires are much easier to work with if solid (22 awg) and kept short - under two feet.
All of the above is what I have done and has proven to be very successful. Others results and/or practices may vary...........
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
BigDaddy Pick two colors for your bus wire and two colors for your feeders and stick to it, don't use scraps of this and that.
Pick two colors for your bus wire and two colors for your feeders and stick to it, don't use scraps of this and that.
+1 (learned the hard way)
Gary