As I recall the article says something about reviewing DCC systems commonly available in the US. Based on the discussion here I guess Lenz did not qualify.
Joe Staten Island West
Could be, but the Zephyr Express isn't that much more than the PowerCab and is arguably a much more capable system. Other than 3 amsp vs 5 amps, the Zephyr is the equivalent of buying the PowerCab, Smart Booster, and DCC AutoSwitch all together (so you end up with closer to the 20 throttle limit of the Zephyr, and a dedicated program track output - not saying these actually work all together, since with the SB5 you need to use the PCP for programming).
The ESU throttle will work with just about any system that has an interface to support the WiThrottle/Engine Driver protocol over WiFi. So it ought to work with the MRC WiFi adapter, the Digitrax WiFi interface, or any system supported by JMRI using the WiThrottle server. You do have to install the Engine Driver app on the ESU throttle (it's an Android device), but it's free, and the latest version has been updated to work with the ESU throttle - besides the big speed knob, the ESU throttle also has some physical buttons on the sides that can be programmed for frequently used functions, so you can have a real button for the horn instead of using the touch screen. The new TCS throttles will be similar, since they will also support the WiThrottle protocol. None of them, it seems, it really cheaper than the full feature NCE and Digitrax throttles, so not yet the answer to a low cost universal throttle that works on all DCC systems. It's also the one thing I don;t get about the ProtoTHrottle - why not use WiFi int he throttle, instead of Zigbee radio, which then requires a second component to be the base station for that and trnaslate into another protocol, either the NCE Cab bus/Lenz ExpressNet or the other unit which translates into WiThrottle WiFi protocol for use with all other systems?
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
At the time I was shopping for a system, NCE and Digitrax, for a similar system were very similarly priced. If anything, the NCE system was a bit more for similar features.
Both brands have come out with cheaper starter systems so maybe that is what was being referenced. I was basically comparing the Digitrax Chief system to NCE similar capacity base station system.
If Lenz hasn't changed much, I would still feel the same; not for me.
ESU is offering a hand held controller that purports to be compatible with Digitrax and has a touch screen but still has a speed knob, which is a "must have" for me. I would never want to control a train by having to keep track of where my finger is on the touch scree to maintain control. That is the major negative say of the blue tooth smart phone options. Toucn control for speed. No thanks.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I think that's the seocond time I saw that - Lenz may be a bit more pricey, but Digitrax and NCE are almost exactly the same price, with Digitrax being slightly less for some equivalent stuff. Digitrax was more expensive at what used to be my LHS because the guy doesn't really want to be in the train business any more so never became a Digitrax dealer, if someone wants Digitrax, they order through Walthers, but that's nbeither here nor there, when comparing actual MSRP, the only way to compare pricing between manufacturers. I can equally find a shop that gives a steeper discount on Digitrax than NCE.
Lenz has not changed anything physically in years. Firmware updates to add new features like the extra functions, but the two throttles are still the same. If you think Digitrax throttles are cryptic, read the Lenz manual. They only have a 4 digit LED display to work with so it's kind of hard to present anything in words. This was the major shortcoming of the original Zephy and Zephyr Xtra as well, you can't do plain English programming with only 4 numerical digits to work with.
The Lenz web site didn't used to be very bad. Lacking in the more technical information yooou might need after getting beyond the basics, but far from the mess that NCE's site became after they 'updated' it. I hope they got their money back from the web designer that created that mess. Can't believe that hasn't hurt their sales to some extent, but like most systems there is a thriving online forum where most any question can be resolved. Plus through the efforts of Mark Gurries, all of the information on the NCE site and then some is organized in a much more usable manner. It's just a shame that it took an outsider to create what ought to be on the company's own site - though I think they even reference Mark's site in places and link you there.
As for the article covering "starter sets", this was discussed in the other thread on this article. There are plenty of systems covered in the article that are not "starter sets" in the terms oof being for a beginner with a small layout, but that's what the manufacturers call them, because they include all the components you need to get started. The Lenz sets are just as much 'starter sets' as the NCE PH Pro or Digitrax Evolution sets. They just haven't materially changed in 10+ years.
Rio Grande...I tend to agree with you on Digitrax. I started off with a Zephyr several years ago and changed over to NCE because I wanted the handheld walk around contol and it seemed after talking to some folks that programming with NCE is more intutitive. At the time I considered Lenz, but it seemed that everyone I knew had either NCE or Digitrax. One other factor was that Lenz and Digitrax were a bit more pricey than NCE.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Tinplate Toddler bearman I don't Have Lenz, but I have gotten the impression that Lenz makes a really good system. They should - it was Bernd Lenz who invented DCC!
bearman I don't Have Lenz, but I have gotten the impression that Lenz makes a really good system.
They should - it was Bernd Lenz who invented DCC!
Very good maybe, but but very good is in the eye of the beholder - see below.
betamaxLenz does make a very good DCC system, the issue is they are not well represented in North America.
Perhaps. I looked at Lenz some years ago when I was in the market for a DCC system, and what turned me off were the controllers - which was a biggie. Lenz seemed to be a big proponent at the time of buttons for speed control, which I dislike. Another turn-off was lack of a display/readout on their controllers at the time. I eliminated Lenz from my consideration pretty quickly because I didn't like the controllers.
Lenz may have made changes or improvements since then, but I haven't looked into the system since then. If anything, I'm thinking about the ESU system that reportely will be made compatible with Digitrax.
Digitrax is considered very good by many, but if your brain doesn't work like engineer who designed it, my a not find it user friendly.
bearman I don't know if there is already a thread on this topic. If so, I apologize in advance. I have not been on line here for a month or so. So, I found it a little strange that the Lenz systems were not included in the subject article. I don't Have Lenz, but I have gotten the impression that Lenz makes a really good system.
I don't know if there is already a thread on this topic. If so, I apologize in advance. I have not been on line here for a month or so.
So, I found it a little strange that the Lenz systems were not included in the subject article. I don't Have Lenz, but I have gotten the impression that Lenz makes a really good system.
Lenz does make a very good DCC system, the issue is they are not well represented in North America. So you don't see much from Lenz in the hobby shops.
Another problem was/is that their website isn't exactly friendly, nor is it very forthcoming with information.* Their US distributor's websites were even more sparse with the details you would want before purchasing a system. Couple that with an almost non-existant dealer network, and you won't see much Lenz Digital plus in North America.
Not that no one uses Lenz. There are a few layouts in my area that use Lenz Digital plus. In the early days of DCC a number of layout owners explored the idea of converting and asked someone for their opinion. He studied the available systems at the time and recommended Lenz based on what he learned about the DCC market at the time.
Lenz, being European, would have more focus on the EU market and a better presence there. We dont' see a lot of the European DCC products in NA, with the exception of ESU.
* NCE's website isn't much better then Lenz, but that hasn't hurt them in North America.
I believe they even said this was a brief summary of entry level DCC systems, not a comprehensive list.
Lenz does not make an entry level system, so their absence is no real surprise. Also, Lenz has not really kept up with the latest technology. For example, they have no radio remote throttles. (CVP throttles do have an option for a Lenz system.)
My own Lenz system, by the way, is about 10 years old and still running fine.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
...and made it open-source so that all of the DCC systems we choose and use are very close to standardized. Very good of them, I would say.
bearmanI don't Have Lenz, but I have gotten the impression that Lenz makes a really good system.
Happy times!
Ulrich (aka The Tin Man)
"You´re never too old for a happy childhood!"
Not surprised. I will check it out.
We did that one.
DCC Roundup
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley