I am new to the hobby and in the process of deciding which DCC system to use. Plenty of information on Digitrax and NCE. What about the CVP Products Easy DCC System? Thanks.
RH,
While Digitrax and NCE are the two predominant DCC systems in the US, there are a least a few CVP users here on the forum. I considered CVP when I was first evaluating DCC systems back in 2005 but I ended up with NCE (Power Cab). 14 years later I'm still very happy with that choice.
From what I know about CVP, they make a solid product. Whatever DCC system you end up choosing though, make sure that it both meets your present (and future) needs and is intuitive to you. If you belong to a club (or think you might eventually), there are advantages to choosing a like-system:
Lastly, CVP may be a single-source supplier. So, if you needed product, you'll have to purchase it from them directly vs finding it from other vendors - e.g. eBay.
Things to consider...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I have a Lenz system, but CVP makes radio throttles and an accessory that connects to Lenz. Lenz does not make radio throttles. I like these throttles, but they are for running locos, but not programming them.
The throttles take batteries, rather than being rechargable. I have no dropouts or loss of control.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I prefer the Power Cab design to CVP's
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I have Easy DCC and I love it. I especially love the long slender radio throttles.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
I have used CVP EasyDCC for the last 15 years. We have a local operating group that uses it as well. The system is rock solid reliable and I like the handheld wireless - a few buttons and a knob. I would go with them again if I were starting out today.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
OP:
Do you have a smartphone or tablet? (can be Android or iOS).
If so, go to GooglePlay or the App Store and type "roco z21" into the search. Download the app and try it out (the app works in demo mode without the hardware). It's free. See if you like it. (There are actually 2 apps, one older, one newer. Try both!)
I don't use DCC for a number of reasons, but every time I considered it, CVP would have been my choice.
Most straight forward wireless throttle by far, and I like the "base station" nature of the main unit.
As for apps for smart phones or tablets, that is a non starter for me even if I ever did go DCC.
Control a train with a touch screen? It was a challenge to type this post on my S4 tablet......
Sheldon
Most reviews and comparisons on the Internet don't even consider CVP in their analyses. Mostly, the reviews compare and contrast NCE, Digitrax, MRC and Lenz. However, Mark Gurries provides a comprehensive comparison between NCE and CVP.
https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/choosing-a-dcc-system/dcc-system-comparisons/nce-vs-easydcc
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain Most reviews and comparisons on the Internet don't even consider CVP in their analyses. Mostly, the reviews compare and contrast NCE, Digitrax, MRC and Lenz. However, Mark Gurries provides a comprehensive comparison between NCE and CVP. https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/choosing-a-dcc-system/dcc-system-comparisons/nce-vs-easydcc Rich
That review is grossly out date and does not represent the current CVP product.
I like NCE's starter set. Being quite popular and well-made, there are a ton of vids and forums about various aspects. The system offers a lot of variety and is quite easy to use. Another positive is outstanding and helpful customer service. NCE is a solid choice when starting out.
You cannot go wrong with that system nor devoting the time to watching the vids about how to set it up.
Retired Handyman I am new to the hobby and in the process of deciding which DCC system to use. Plenty of information on Digitrax and NCE. What about the CVP Products Easy DCC System?
I am new to the hobby and in the process of deciding which DCC system to use. Plenty of information on Digitrax and NCE. What about the CVP Products Easy DCC System?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL richhotrain Mark Gurries provides a comprehensive comparison between NCE and CVP. https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/choosing-a-dcc-system/dcc-system-comparisons/nce-vs-easydcc That review is grossly out date and does not represent the current CVP product. Sheldon
richhotrain Mark Gurries provides a comprehensive comparison between NCE and CVP. https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/choosing-a-dcc-system/dcc-system-comparisons/nce-vs-easydcc
Mark Gurries provides a comprehensive comparison between NCE and CVP.
Sheldon, how about providing an update on Mark Gurries' analysis to point out the shortcomings and inaccuracies of the analysis for the OP's benefit?
As it happens, the July 2019 MR has an article reviewing all the different DCC systems out there.
NCE's "DCC Twin" allows you to run two engines / consists independently with it's two controllers. It costs about half of what the similar CVP "Easy DCC" starter system does - but it only does about 1/4 (or less) of what the CVP system does. With the basic CVP system you can program on a program track or on the main, access all the function buttons, control accessory decoders etc.
I replaced my Digitrax system with CVP a while back because I wanted radio control, and the Digitrax system didn't work very well for me, even with several receivers. CVP radio throttles can be set to different power levels for their signal, I think 1 to 7 (?) with 7 being the most power used. Using just one CVP receiver, I can use my throttle from pretty much anywhere in my basement on just 2 or 3.
As noted, they are direct sale only, so you can't bargain hunt on the web to find deals. Once in a long while something will show up on eBay, but otherwise almost no secondary (used) market...which might mean that once people get a CVP system, they don't want to get rid of it!
wjstixNCE's "DCC Twin" allows you to run two engines / consists independently with it's two controllers. It costs about half of what the similar CVP "Easy DCC" starter system does - but it only does about 1/4 (or less) of what the CVP system does.
I really don't want to get involved in another useless discussion over which DCC system is best.
But, I am curious why you would use the NCE DCC Twin as a comparison. I woud think the PowerCab would be more appropriate.
Never mind.
maxman wjstix NCE's "DCC Twin" allows you to run two engines / consists independently with it's two controllers. It costs about half of what the similar CVP "Easy DCC" starter system does - but it only does about 1/4 (or less) of what the CVP system does. I really don't want to get involved in another useless discussion over which DCC system is best. But, I am curious why you would use the NCE DCC Twin as a comparison. I woud think the PowerCab would be more appropriate.
wjstix NCE's "DCC Twin" allows you to run two engines / consists independently with it's two controllers. It costs about half of what the similar CVP "Easy DCC" starter system does - but it only does about 1/4 (or less) of what the CVP system does.
Even though it's only one throttle, the Digitrax Zephyr Express is probably the closest to the CVP base unit, in terms of form factor and functionality. Apart from the second throttle, it has a full color LCD and color/shape coded buttons, not an array of all the same buttons, and it actually can do more out of the box than the CVP base. The NCE Twin might LOOK more liek the CVP, but is way down on the functionality ladder - actually in some ways does LESS than the Bachmann EZ Command. At least until you add some accessories, then the Twin becomes much more full featured.
Mark's comparison is not that much out of date, mostly the only changes are a new line of boosters that replace the old bulky and very much homemade looking ones (because they used to be offered as kits, but that stopped a LONG time ago). The new ones, liek the newer stuff from NCE and Digitrax, use DC switchign power supplies instead of big hulking linear transformer power supplies.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker Mark's comparison is not that much out of date, mostly the only changes are a new line of boosters that replace the old bulky and very much homemade looking ones (because they used to be offered as kits, but that stopped a LONG time ago). The new ones, liek the newer stuff from NCE and Digitrax, use DC switchign power supplies instead of big hulking linear transformer power supplies. --Randy
Randy,
The review was from 2001. That was 18 years ago. There have been several big changes to the system, including two new wireless throttles since that date. The new (relative term) 5000 throttle offers lots of features that weren't available from CVP in 2001, including expanded functions, different power levels, no external antenna, auto shut off etc.....There have been lots of little changes that you wouldn't notice unless you are a long time user - such as improved throttle aquisition time etc.
I recommend that anyone considering the system take a look at the CVP site especially at the throttles if you are considering wireless throttles.
Here is the 5000
http://cvpusa.com/easydcc_wireless_throttle_t5000e.php
Here is my favorite (the gold standard) 1300 - this throttle was recently redesigned. I have lots of the old ones and everyone in our ops group uses this throttle.
http://cvpusa.com/easydcc_wireless_throttle_t1300e.php
Ok, now I will comment.
I like the base station for programming, etc, I like the smaller, simpler wireless throttles.
Wireless is more important than DCC, so to me, there is no point in DCC unless it is wireless.
That said, the base station throttles could be very handy, but a tethered hand held throttle, especially a complex one that is the brain of the system, no thanks.
You would never consider something like the PowerCab for a layout of your size. Out of the box it's already inadequate and you'd need enough extras that it would make a whole lot more sense to just get the full blown PowerPro radio system.
That's why so many of those comparisons are just silly. There's no point in buying somethign that could never meet your needs, no matter how expandable it is. The expansion capability is really only important if you are starting small and have future plans to grow the layout. There's no need for the high end system with all the bells and whistles for a 4x8 layout, but the reverse is also true, the basic starter system is entirely unsuitable if you already have a basement filling layout, even if you can add on to provide that sort of capacity. I have what I have because I started with an 8x12 layout, added a walkaround throttle but still a tehered one because on an 8x12 I coudl reach all parts from one plug in. I expanded for my next layout which was larger, but since I never got the penninsula built that would have blocked direct access across the room, I never bothered to upgrade to wireless, because I could still reach nearly anything from one plug in point. Now that I am working on a MUCH bigger layout, wireless becomes a must. The club is already wireless, being 140+ feet from end to end it's kind of required there as well.
rrinker You would never consider something like the PowerCab for a layout of your size. Out of the box it's already inadequate and you'd need enough extras that it would make a whole lot more sense to just get the full blown PowerPro radio system. That's why so many of those comparisons are just silly. There's no point in buying somethign that could never meet your needs, no matter how expandable it is. The expansion capability is really only important if you are starting small and have future plans to grow the layout. There's no need for the high end system with all the bells and whistles for a 4x8 layout, but the reverse is also true, the basic starter system is entirely unsuitable if you already have a basement filling layout, even if you can add on to provide that sort of capacity. I have what I have because I started with an 8x12 layout, added a walkaround throttle but still a tehered one because on an 8x12 I coudl reach all parts from one plug in. I expanded for my next layout which was larger, but since I never got the penninsula built that would have blocked direct access across the room, I never bothered to upgrade to wireless, because I could still reach nearly anything from one plug in point. Now that I am working on a MUCH bigger layout, wireless becomes a must. The club is already wireless, being 140+ feet from end to end it's kind of required there as well. --Randy
Randy, that is one of the benefits of the CVP system, for a long time now, it has been just one system.
It is a single building block system, no dead end versions regarding expansion.
It all starts with the console, from there you add as many fascia plugs as you want, or as much wireless as you want, or both.
And as much accessory decoder architecture as you want, if you want it. Their stationary decoders support local pushbuttons.
Yes, like all the others it assumes you like certain features, like the big console for programing, and it assumes you don't like complex hand held throttles.........see why it is the one I would choose?
It also has easy press buttons with a nice tactile feel, no encoder wheel, etc.
NCE assumes you want all the programing functions on a throttle, wired or wireless.
Digitrax is similar in this regard.
I have said before, if I was building a different sort of layout, I could be very interested in DCC - but the Train Engineer has me spoiled, at our house we even run the Christmas Tree train with a wireless throttle.......
One throttle or 10, no more tethered throttles for me. I would go back to a control panel throttle first.
In fact, on the new layout, I am planning to have some aux throttles right on the dispacters panel.
rrinker You would never consider something like the PowerCab for a layout of your size. Out of the box it's already inadequate and you'd need enough extras that it would make a whole lot more sense to just get the full blown PowerPro radio system.
One of the best things that my guys at the LHS did for me 15 years ago when I switched over to DCC was to recommend the NCE 5 amp wireless Power House Pro system. I bought it immediately even though my first DCC layout was a mere 8' x 12' table in the middle of my basement floor. As my layout expanded to its present 45' x 25' footprint, the PH-Pro has met all of my increasing needs.
That's why both NCE and Digitrax offer throttle optiosn that DON'T do any programming. You only ever need one NCE hammerhead, the rest can be the simple CAB06 throttles which are very similar to the CVP ones. Single knob, 10 digit keypad to key in the address, no programming capabilities. The Digitrax UT4 is similar as well. Just a basic knob throttle with no ability to program anything.
Neither NCE nor Digitrax are dead end in any way, you CAN start with a small layout and the most basic system either one offers and in the end have the max feature system with no surplus parts. That was something it took MRC 3 or 4 systems to finally figure out, as the current ones are also fully upgradeable. There is basically one Digitrax devices from back when they first marketed a system that is not usable with the very latest you would buy today. The forwards and backwards compatibility that they and NCE have is really unheard of in other areas of consumer electronics. Digitrax doesn't even charge extra for not buying the radio throttle up front - a plug in throttle can be converted to radio and the cost to do the upgrade is exactly the price difference between buying the plug in version or buying the radio version in the first place.
For someone changing an existing large layout to DCC, it doesn't matter if there is a lesser starter set. But for the beginner who then gets hooked in the hobby - being able to start with DCC and NOT spend $600 for the big system is a huge benefit. Especially when none of that initial investment needs to be discarded or sold off for pennies on the dollar.
Funny the biggest argument used AGAINST Digitrax is that Zephyr being a fixed console and not a walkaround, and here you are advocating that the 'brains' of the system ought to be in one big console. On my previous layout, the Zephyr was tucked up under the layout and I never touched the system console. No need to.
richhotrain rrinker You would never consider something like the PowerCab for a layout of your size. Out of the box it's already inadequate and you'd need enough extras that it would make a whole lot more sense to just get the full blown PowerPro radio system. I totally agree. One of the best things that my guys at the LHS did for me 15 years ago when I switched over to DCC was to recommend the NCE 5 amp wireless Power House Pro system. I bought it immediately even though my first DCC layout was a mere 8' x 12' table in the middle of my basement floor. As my layout expanded to its present 45' x 25' footprint, the PH-Pro has met all of my increasing needs. Rich
I totally agree.
Yes they advised you well.
Randy, point still remains, the ergonomics of the the full feature throttles are poor in my opinion. That makes CVP the winner for me.
So it is just marketing on the part of NCE and Digitrax that makes it seem like they have multiple different level products? But they do seem to have more redundancy in their lines than they need.
Nothing is harder to understand than the NCE web site......
Ok, I think I'm done here,
rrinker That's why both NCE and Digitrax offer throttle optiosn that DON'T do any programming. You only ever need one NCE hammerhead, the rest can be the simple CAB06 throttles which are very similar to the CVP ones. Single knob, 10 digit keypad to key in the address, no programming capabilities. The Digitrax UT4 is similar as well. Just a basic knob throttle with no ability to program anything.
This is basically how my small NCE system evolved. I bought the NCE PowerCab starter system, but wanted wireless so I then purchased the small Cab 06 wireless throttle and the accompanying transmitter (apologies to NCE for forgetting the name). This basically made the original NCE throttle a tethered command station. It did cost an extra $150 to go wireless, but wireless systems are generally more expensive than stationary systems anyway.
I think if you buy the standard NCE wireless system, it comes with the command station untethered and adapted with an antennae to act as a wireless throttle, which wouldn't eliviate some of Sheldon's concerns about ergonomics.
- Douglas
MisterBeasley I have a Lenz system, but CVP makes radio throttles and an accessory that connects to Lenz. Lenz does not make radio throttles. I like these throttles, but they are for running locos, but not programming them. The throttles take batteries, rather than being rechargable. I have no dropouts or loss of control.
I've operated with Lenz, Digitrax, NCE, and EasyDCC multiple times.I bought EasyDCC.Don't listen to the doubters.
NCE's website is absolutely horrible. It used to be neatly organized but the update a couple of years ago left us with the mess it is now. I'm not sure what they were thinking, or where the web developer learned how to make a web site. Definitely needs fixing. That can't be heping them attract customers.
Marketing? Well, if you define marketing as actually creating products targeted at specific markets, and not just ad copy, I suppose it is marketing to have multiple product options. Digitrax has fewer options than NCE, really just 2 systems, the Zephyr Express and the Evolution. Evolution is available with or without radio, but it's the same system otherwise. NCE has the Twin, Powercab, and PowerPro (in wired and wireless versions and in both 5 amp and 10 amp versions - 4 variations!).
It's not at all complicated though, they do spell out what each system is designed for, and NCE had a handy chart (once you find it) of which system you should pick based on your needs.
So CVP has one system. One size fits all? They actually list three different 'starter sets' (they all seem to call them starter sets, but the meaning is not "beginner").
Believe me, I wanted to like CVP - back in the says when they were first tossign ideas around for an NMRA standard command control, CVP's Railcommand was much more capable than what Lenz was offering at the time and I was much in favor of using that as the standard. That of course fell through and we got Bernd Lenz's system, but thankfully there was additional input by people to expand the capability beyond 14 speed steps, for one. So CVP came up with a DCC system (couldn;t miss it, articles on building the kits filled MR at the time). The fact that it was DIY was an attractive feature. It did everythign the contemporary systems did. But they lagged in updates (still don;t support the full 30 functions). Design chocies made the overall system more complex - for a really large layotu wyou need an amplifier for the booster bus as well as one for the throttle bus - and their throttle panels are no cheaper than anyoen else's, you just need to have that amplifier in there in addition. MRC gets you there too - they don;t come right out and say it but after a certain number of throttles you need power to the throttle bus and the almost invisible POWERED throttle panel to accomplish it.
Interesting how they tout their system as the best for SERIOUS operators, when they have the lowest total throttle capacity of all the major systems, just 31. Only 16 radio throttles
rrinker So CVP has one system. One size fits all? They actually list three different 'starter sets' (they all seem to call them starter sets, but the meaning is not "beginner").
Well the "Basic" is the Command Station, Zonemaster Single Booster, Power Supplies, and cables. "Extended" has the same, plus a plug-in throttle, fascia plate, and "extender board" to connect the walkaround system to the Command Station. The "Wireless" system is similar to the "Extended", except you get a wireless throttle, wireless receiver, etc. instead of the plug-in stuff. All three use the same Command Station and Zonemaster. So it's really the same system at heart.