mbinsewiEDIT: I just realized that perhaps I have hijacked the OP's thread? I'm also a newbie with sound.
All good with me. I am learning alot.
The USED to all be full Loksound decoders, so yours probably is. One oddball was the turbine, the Rivet Counter I think had TWO sound decoders to gt all the sounds needed for both the turbine and the diesel prime movers, but the Operator one only had one decoder. Or something odd liek that.
This "Loksound Essentials" thing is new.
Most any sound decoder has a mute. F8 is not always it though. There is actually no standard at all for what function key does what, other than the headlight being F0. It's more or less become convention that F1 is bell adn F2 is horn, and most systems are set up with F2 as a momentary function for controlling the horn, instead of it going on when you press the button and having to press a second time to stop the sound. But many Eurpoean locomotives don't even have bells, and F1 is often used for the horn or whistle. Which button is couple clank, which is dynamic brakes, that all varies. ANd even more so when you get to "no prototype" options like muting the sound.
ESU decoders do have probably the most comprehensive funtion remapping capabilities, there is no restriction that a lot of decoders have that certain outputs cna be freely changed, but only between SOME of the function buttons, and another gorup can be changed between any of another group of buttons. Loksound decoders can map any sound and/or any output wire to ANY function key. So it is possible to consistently map every sound project so that F8 is mute, even if it doesn't come that way.
That does come at a price - it's hundreds of CVs. But it is far less complex than it sounds - I do so wish people could understand that. It's a table, many rows, each with 8 or 9 CVs. Each row is identical to every other row, so while the sum total of a lot of CVs, it's really just the same 8 or 0 repeated over and over. It's NOT hundreds of distinct CVs, each with their own values. Each column in the table has a set of values which indicate which funtion key, which function wire, which could sound, and under what conditions (moving forward, standing still, transistion from stop to forward, moving in any direction, etc) that the settins will apply. This is just repeated many times to give enough room to make the decoder do whatever you want. The order of the columns in each row is always the same, the allowable values is always the same for any given column.
I don;t think any other decoder offers that. Other decoders do function remapping, but none are as flexible as ESU.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I think all sound decoders have a "mute" function; I can't guarantee all use F8, it could be some use another function button. If you're asking if you have all your engines making sound, can you hit F8 and have them all go silent at once, the answer is no. You would have to call up each engine separately and mute it.
However, note that most if not all recent sound decoders have an option for the engine to not make any sound until the engine is "addressed" by the DCC system, so the sound is off until you turn the sound on, either by hitting a particular function button, or on some, sending it any command (move forward, ring bell, etc.) Some also 'time out' so that if an engine is on the track with sound on, it will shut the sound off after so many minutes.
Main thing to remember is all of this is fairly easily set up by programming the decoder using your DCC system, so you can make the decoders react the way you wish them to.
I've had post completely disapear when I click submit. Only here does this happen.
Anyway. I have the Operator series. The sales pitch at the time, was "It's the same ESU Loksound decoder as the Rivet Counter". Oh well, I'm happy with it.
It's my second loco with factory sound, and I have yet to install a sound decoder.
If I were to install a sound decoder, can they all be turned on and off with F8? I don't like to hear a train I can't see.
Mike.
EDIT: I just realized that perhaps I have hijacked the OP's thread? I'm also a newbie with sound.
My You Tube
SO maybe Scale Trains has come around? The review of the Dash-9 in the latest MR says you have to press F8 to get the sounds to start up, then it plays the startup sequence, and so forth. Same as the Loksound decoders I have.
This is the Rivet Counter model, which has a full Loksounf 5 decoder in it. The Operator series now has a stripped down Loksound Essentials decoder, which may not behave the same way.
I really dislike the stripped down economy mode decoders by anyone. I get it, the decoder maker does this to gain OEM market share, but stripping out features but still having the brand name referenced IMO dilutes the brand. Someone gets one, doesn;t like the limitations, and if someone asks what decoder it came with, they'll say ESU or Loksound and leave of the "Essentials" part, so that friend they talked to now thinks Loksound decoders are junk. Either put the full decoder in, or sell the loco as DCC ready with no decoder at all. I for one will absoilutely never buy a loco with a reduced feature version of a decoder already installed. If the same loco is offered as DCC ready, and it's a model I can use, you'll still make the sale, but if it's only available with that stripped down decoder, I'll pass it right by.
Litchfield Station may still have a few Selects left. I picked one up from them in early April.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Most of the better dealers will load your choice of sound file before shipping - Modeltrainstuff, Litchfield, Tony's, SBS, just to name a few.
Good luck finding a Select Micro - they've been discontinued. They've been replaced with the Loksound 5 Micro, which aren't ready and aren't shipping yet. There are some significant improvements so well worth waiting for.
tstage DRGWGJCO I was thinking of going with the LOK Sound Selects. Is there a draw back to running N Scale decders in HO scale locos? Thinking I might need the smaller size in the SW1000. As long as the continuous/peak current rating of the decoder is 1A/2A, you should be fine for an HO install. I've installed both N- & Z-scale decoders in switchers because of the lack of room under the shell. Tom
DRGWGJCO
I was thinking of going with the LOK Sound Selects. Is there a draw back to running N Scale decders in HO scale locos? Thinking I might need the smaller size in the SW1000.
As long as the continuous/peak current rating of the decoder is 1A/2A, you should be fine for an HO install. I've installed both N- & Z-scale decoders in switchers because of the lack of room under the shell.
Thanks thats what I thought but wasn't sure. Additionally I had found a dealer for LokSound Decoders that would send them with the sound file you selected pre-loaded on it, I can't find it now. Any ideas?
DRGWGJCOI was thinking of going with the LOK Sound Selects. Is there a draw back to running N Scale decders in HO scale locos? Thinking I might need the smaller size in the SW1000.
BigDaddy My understanding, at least in HO, is that loksound select is a replacement board for the installed circuit board.
My understanding, at least in HO, is that loksound select is a replacement board for the installed circuit board.
Henry,
The Select Directs are the replacement board decoders. The Select & Select Micros are the regular decoders.
My understanding, at least in HO, is that loksound select is a replacement board for the installed circuit board. My oldest BB athearn, don't have circuit boards so I don't see the advantage
I had a loksound that started sound on powering the rails.
https://tinyurl.com/yytw4zq3
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Thanks everyone for the input I have learned alot I didn't know. Great Discussion. I was thinking of going with the LOK Sound Selects. Is there a draw back to running N Scale decoders in HO scale locos? Thinking I might need the smaller size in the SW1000.
Thanks Randy, I'll have to check out the videos.
SHort form, if you engage drive hold, the loco will keep moving at whatever speed it was going, but turning the throttle up or down will alter the prime move. Say you have the loco creeping along with its train, you turn on drive hold, and throttle all the way up, now it's screaming in run 8 while slowly getting the train moving. When you release drive hold, the loco's speed changes to the throttle position (good idea to have momentum so it doesn't just leap from step 10 to step 100). Reverse works as well - when going down hill, you cna engage drive hold to keep the loco moving the same speed, but turn the prime mover back to idle. There are some videos of it being demonstrated, I know one of those was an episode of Ken Patterson's What's Neat.
The Scale Trains I have also has the "drive hold". I haven't read anything about it, or what it does.
This should be CV changes, and wouldn;t require the Lokprogrammer. IF the ScaleTrains sound project were avilable and you had a Lokprogrammer, you could both make the changes AND make them the default, but in general the OEM sound files like that are not available for end users.
I actually like the dealy - it makes the sound behave like the real loco I rode in the cab on. Combined with some momentum in CV3, I can simulate a heavy train or a light train, all in how I handle the throttle. Now that there's Drive Hold, you can do the same thing with functions, but I haven't gone through and updated all my decoders to the version with Full Throttle yet. Plus - while on that cab ride, even when we uncoupled and needed to move ahead to line a switch, the engineer wasn;t just moving the throttle from idle to notch one, he would 'goose' it a little and drop to idle and effectively coast. Which is what I can do with the delay plus some momentum. One of he reasons I'm considering using Lokpilot for my non-sound instead of TCS like I have been is because Lokpilots also have the dealy, so they can easily be consisted with Loksound. They also have Full Throttle so you cna use that when consisted as well.
I know some say that's not how you run a real engine, but the engineer I was with was the senior guy on the railroad, and was hauling the owner of the railroad and guests in his private car along with the rest of the plebes like me out for a train ride. So rouch handling was absolutely positively out for this trip. Not the newest loco, but not the oldest - it was an SD50. Much quieter in the cab than I expected, compared to standing trackside and watching one go by. Could definitely feel the weight and momentum of the train through the seat of your pants as we pulled away from stops and slowed down. I got to do it again, but it was in a trailing unit so I had no idea what the engineer was doing at any given time. Though on that one I got some decent speed because I was in the cab for one of the photo runbys we did that day. And pretty quick acceleration.
rrinkerLooksound decoders will run (silently) if you just turn on the track poower and go. The default is not too start sound when the power is turned on - most proojects use F8 to start up the sounds, where it will play the startup sounds and then settle in at idle. Mine all continue what they were doing if interrupted, they don;t start all over again.
Mine also do this. The Loksound will not start engine sounds unless F8 is pressed. The bell and horns work regardless of whether the engine sounds are on or off.
One thing I did was to stop the delay when starting up. CV124 should be set to zero. Otherwise, when the engine is given the command to move, it will delay for a few seconds while the sound indicates the engine is getting power.
I didn't like the delay, so setting CV124 to zero stops that.
With Loksound, I've never had the startup sounds start over after losing power. They always continued as they were before the interruption.
York1 John
rrinkerou can change the settings and fix this, but if they saved the silly settings as the defaults, if you ever reset the decoder it will revert to the original behavior.
Do I need to Lokprogammer to do this? Not that it bothers too much, as I usually have the sound off anyway, once the loco gets out of site.
It's all in how the sound project was configured and what default CV settings there were. Pretty much any of the downlaoded sound files I'm tried workt he same way, nothing at statup, the loco will move but be silent. Press F8, sound scome on, startup sound plays, and then the loco is good to go. Interruptions and the decoder picks right up where it left off.
I don't know why Scale Trains chose to have the settings they did, this is the most annoying aspect of other brands of sound decoders and one of the reasons I got rid of all of them and use only ESU now. You can change the settings and fix this, but if they saved the silly settings as the defaults, if you ever reset the decoder it will revert to the original behavior. My Bowser factory Loksound locos don't do this, they work with F8 as mute/startup, otherwise the only others I hae have an ESU Alco sound project loaded in them and work the same way.
mbinsewi I have a Scale Trains, with the ESU sound, and an interupttion of power, and it starts all over with the start up. I wish it would just continue on. I have it off most of the time anyway, the horn, bell, and full light function still work. Mike.
I have a Scale Trains, with the ESU sound, and an interupttion of power, and it starts all over with the start up. I wish it would just continue on. I have it off most of the time anyway, the horn, bell, and full light function still work.
I’ve experienced the same problem. Whenever it hits dirty track we get to enjoy the startup sequence again. And if your not in switching mode then you have to wait for it to go through startup sequence before it will move!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
rrinkerMine all continue what they were doing if interrupted, they don;t start all over again.
Mike
rrinker Mine all continue what they were doing if interrupted, they don;t start all over again.
Looksound decoders will run (silently) if you just turn on the track poower and go. The default is not too start sound when the power is turned on - most proojects use F8 to start up the sounds, where it will play the startup sounds and then settle in at idle. Mine all continue what they were doing if interrupted, they don;t start all over again.
The Tsunami default is the worst - it starts up on speed step 1 - so you have the loco moving while it is playing the startup sounds. It's bad enough on my Digitrax system using 128 steps where the loco barely creeps oon step 1, in 28 step mode where each step is that much more of a change, I can only imagine. And regardless of momentum settings, the loco always moves before the prime moover changes - that's not how the locoo I was riding in worked, even making light engine moves.
My Loksounds will do whatever they were doing when power was killed. So if I shut them down before powering off the layout, upon power-up, they will be silent. If they were running (sound on) when they lost power, upon regaining power the sound will come on. My Tsunamis (version 1) are both silent on power up (both on steam locos). You have to select the loco and give it some sort of command before sound starts. The "tsunami" that came factory on a bachmann loco I have starts as soon as power is applied. No way to change that on the bachmann specific tsunami. I have one TCS WowSound in a steamer that makes noise upon power up, but I remember hearing somewhere you can disable that. I just haven't had the time to try yet.
In my experience LokSound decoders with play a startup sequence as soon as you turn the track power on. In default mode they will not move until the start up is complete. This can be annoying if track is dirty because every time the loco hits a dead spot the loco stops moving and plays the start up again. On of the function keys (can remember which, maybe 11 or 12?) will put the locomotive in “switching mode”. In this mode the start up sequence will play but the loco will still move as the loco goes through the startup sequence. Switching mode also decreases the momentum settings I think.
Hi DRGWGJCO,
I will politely disagree with selector regarding Loksound decoders. When track power is turned on Loksound decoders do not automatically start making sounds. You have to press F8 to activate the engine start up sequence.
With the Loksound decoders you can activate the sound while the locomotive is in motion, i.e. coming out of staging, but I believe that the decoder will go through the engine start up sounds before matching the engine sounds to your throttle setting. I could be wrong. I haven't had to do that in a while.
As far as decoder recommendations, I don't think there are any bad decoders being produced these days. My recommendation regarding choosing decoders is to decide on one brand and use the same brand for all your locomotives. The reason is simple. If all your decoders are the same operationally then you don't have to remember different command sequences for different manufacturers. For example, starting a QSI decoder is different from starting a Loksound decoder, which is different from starting a Soundtraxx decoder etc.... Then, each of the different decoders will have different running charactaristics right out of the box. You may have to play with various CVs to get locomotives with different manufacturers decoders to operate together.
I have settled on Loksound Selects. They operate perfectly right out of the box and their motor control is excellent as is their sound.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!