Thanks rrbell, I've never been recommended for a Sticky before. Of cousre I immediately spotted a typo.
Normally, I'm a DCC guy, but as I started typing, I started thinking, if you don't need a team of 12 guys to run your layout, and if you aren't enamoured by all the sound and sound effects, maybe DCC is a waste of your money.
Price matters and not everyone can afford the top of the line. It's not just the cost of a DCC starter system, the locos are more expensive, especially if you want more than the "sound value" entry level. Then you need the autoreversers, the frog juicers, the static dcc controllers.
I left MR when CTC was just starting. I came back just 3 years ago and DCC was brand new to me. The people who like sound, convinced me that I ought to try it and I liked it. Not everyone does and I get that too. Some people love smoke, steam or even diesel smoke effects. It doesn't float my boat, but it's a choice available for those that like it.
I guess you could say it's like single malt scotch. For the people that like Johnny Walker, they shouldn't buy Laphroaig.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy For a small layout, I'm not so sure you do need DCC. There are long term respected forum members, who have big layouts, and don't think they need DCC. But back to your situation; I you are only running one train at a time, even if it's consisted, DCC is not an advantage. These days, some DC locos have sound. Not as much or many choices of horns, engines as DCC, but there is sound. Not everyone likes sound. I like the sound and the variety of options in DCC. But do you need/want it? To independently control two different locos in DC, the wiring gets more complicated. That's called cab control and you need blocks, separate segments of track that can be controlled by one controller or the other. That takes more physical wiring than DCC. Here is where DCC shines. DC controls the tracks, DCC controls engines. You can tell multiple locos to do different things, all at the same time. However it's a bit like juggling. How many balls can you keep in the air beyond two? Whatever that number is, you don't need any extra wiring for DCC. Lighting and turnout control generally need a separate power source for DCC. DCC engine conversion; It can be done. Lots of Youtube videos Nscale is a little different than HO. If you need to make room for speakers, that is a problem. Both can be fiddly and if you don't have soldering skill or are poor at it, it can be a problem. The electrical geeks love it. Except for the DCS system, generally everyone is happy with their brand. Here is where the discussion takes on religious overtones. I'm not going there. The 3 major starter systems in the US all have a different feel but all get the job done. If you don't have a retail train store or local club, watch a bunch of youtube videos and see how they fit in your hand and work.
For a small layout, I'm not so sure you do need DCC. There are long term respected forum members, who have big layouts, and don't think they need DCC. But back to your situation;
I you are only running one train at a time, even if it's consisted, DCC is not an advantage.
These days, some DC locos have sound. Not as much or many choices of horns, engines as DCC, but there is sound. Not everyone likes sound. I like the sound and the variety of options in DCC. But do you need/want it?
To independently control two different locos in DC, the wiring gets more complicated. That's called cab control and you need blocks, separate segments of track that can be controlled by one controller or the other. That takes more physical wiring than DCC.
Here is where DCC shines. DC controls the tracks, DCC controls engines. You can tell multiple locos to do different things, all at the same time. However it's a bit like juggling. How many balls can you keep in the air beyond two? Whatever that number is, you don't need any extra wiring for DCC.
Lighting and turnout control generally need a separate power source for DCC.
DCC engine conversion; It can be done. Lots of Youtube videos Nscale is a little different than HO. If you need to make room for speakers, that is a problem. Both can be fiddly and if you don't have soldering skill or are poor at it, it can be a problem. The electrical geeks love it.
Except for the DCS system, generally everyone is happy with their brand. Here is where the discussion takes on religious overtones. I'm not going there. The 3 major starter systems in the US all have a different feel but all get the job done.
If you don't have a retail train store or local club, watch a bunch of youtube videos and see how they fit in your hand and work.
I have to agree with Sheldon's first post: if you want sound, you want DCC.
As for the OP's layout, it's going to be N scale, 2' or 2.5' wide by 8', with a continuous loop and a couple of switching areas. I'm not sure of the sound capabilities in N scale, but the operational possibilities are otherwise well suited to DC - two wires to the track , and perhaps a couple of On/Off switches to facilitate parking one train while doing some switching.If you do want sound, the DCC wiring would likely be the same, minus the two On/Off switches.
Wayne
A few more thoughts:
Some of the best "bang for your buck" with DCC comes on a small layout where you might desire to operate several locos in close proximity to each other.
DCC equipment and wiring for a small layout, without signaling, detection, CTC, multiple reverse sections, multiple power districts, etc, is both simple and relatively inexpensive.
It is in this application that the cost difference between DC and DCC is relatively small. Especially if we assume the small layout only has a small roster of locomotives............
And, if you do like onboard sound, a small layout with only one or two locos operating at the same time, is the best "showcase" for onboard sound.
As layout size AND/OR complexity increases, the cost, and wiring complexity can increase exponentially, with DCC or DC.
Large DCC layouts require power buss wiring, power districts with circuit breakers, additional boosters, possibly multiple auto reverse modules, etc.
And larger layouts generally have larger fleets of locos.........
If I were to switch to DCC tomorrow, I would need to begin the installation of 145 decoders. Now some will say don't convert all your locos, get rid of the older ones, you don't really need that many locos.
BUT, who are they to define my modeling goals?
My new layout, right now in the planning stage, construction to begin soon, will stage about 35 trains, have a 240' double track mainline, and have several industrial belt line switching areas separate from the mainline, as well as a 22' long, 8 track, freight yard.
Average freight train length = 35 cars.
The typical freight train will require 3-4 powered diesel units or two medium sized steam locos to handle the 2% grades.
25 freight trains x 3 locos = 75 locos
10 passenger trains x 2 locos = 20 locos
10 self propelled passenger motor cars (RDC's, doodle bugs)
Extra locos for operational power changes, etc - 20
Yard and industrial switchers - 20
TOTAL = 145 powered units NEEDED for the operating scheme of the layout.
145 x $25 (non sound) = $3,625
145 x $105 (sound) = $15,225
The price to install sound decoders is without question more money than I have invested in the entire loco fleet. Most of my locos have been manufactured in the last 25 years, they are all high quality, high detail current type products. But my dollar cost average price to aquire them has been less than $100 each.
So even installing $25 non sound decoders is a major increase in motive power costs.
Different strokes for different folks.......
My modeling goals include creating that sense of big time 1950's railroading.
My modeling goals do not include the minutiae of turning on headlights individually or listening to the throttle notch changes in the sound of a prime mover.
For me it is more about stepping back and looking at the big picture. The layout will allow those "intimate" activities of switching, hostling, etc, but it will also simply provide big vista rail fanning.
With as many as 4-6 trains moving at once, even in 1400 sq ft, onboard sound turns into a din of noise I can not personally deal with. My views on sound are a complete topic on their own, so I will leave it at that.
My layout requires 10 wireless throttles, detection, signaling, and CTC to meet my goals.
Just the DCC equipment alone that it would take to replace my current Aristo radio throttles and install decoders in the loco fleet, would easily reach $10,000. That is before we consider detection, CTC, turnout control and signaling.
For a number less than $10,000, I have detection, signals, CTC, local tower control, intergated one button route control of turnouts, ATC, and 10 wireless throttles.
And my "user experiance" for the average operator is very similar to DCC. You simply pick up your throttle and control your train. The CTC dispatcher does the rest with just the push of a few buttons. OR, even without the dispatcher, you can walk around with your train, just like DCC, throw a few turnouts and push a button every now and then on a tower panel as you pass by, and simply operate your train.
The Advanced Cab Control does the rest, no toggles to "flip".......
About the only thing I give up is the ablity to move one loco right up to another loco at any place on the layout. And actually, my engine terminal will have some wiring magic for making up diesel lash ups......
So, for a big layout, DCC can be expensive.
So consider your goals carefully and choose what is best for you.
One size does not fit all.
Sheldon
1. DCC wiring is easier. On a small layout, if you don't have a reverse loop, you could do it all as one block and still be able to operate multiple engines independently. You might separate one side-track or spur track to use as a programming track.
2. DCC doesn't automatically mean sound. You should be able to add non-sound decoders to your engines fairly easily, and there are plenty of new engines that you can buy with DCC installed. In N-scale, I would look into some sort of 'under the table' sound system, if you want to go with sound. MRC has a new sound gizmo that I'm interested in trying, costs under $50. It's basically a sound decoder and speaker all in one that you can place under, over, or near your layout to provide sound synched up to an engine.
3. DCC can make your engines run more smoothly, with starting and stopping momentum, Back EMF so engines maintain a steady speed going up or down hills, and "keep alive" circuits to keep things going over a dirty spot or going over an unpowered frog.
4. Odds are that sooner or later you're going to go to DCC, so why not do it now?
I started with DC and switched over to DCC. The latter is far less forgiving with errors. I can't tell you the frustrations I experienced with a short on a turnout. For two weeks the system registered a short when it was actually insufficient number of feeders.
It depends on the locos whether you can add decoders. What a fear I had putting in a decoder for the first time. The two Athearn DCC-ready locos are simple to add a decoder. You open the loco shell and plug n' play.
To program a loco, you need to have some extra track and alligator clips. Isolating the track avoids potential issues on the mainline.
For brands, I can only speak about the NCE starter system. They have an outstanding customer service. Additionally, the system is very easy to use. I watched their youtube vids and was operational in 10 minutes.
By all means get yourself a book on DCC wiring and check out the online resources. Expect to get overwhelmed with the options. Plenty here can give more informative answers.
Basically, you have two buss wires and feeders from the track to the buss. The former are larger gauge than the latter. Whatever colors you pick for buss and feeders is your call. Just make sure you write it down and remain constant. Otherwise, you'll experience a short. I plead the 5th on that! To avoid that and other issues, test as you go! In other words, connect one feeder (not even a set) and check that you get power. Never test without having the power on to ensure you are good.
For my normal 1'x10' industrial switching layout I preferred DCC because I get get all of the sounds like EMD transistion and the choice of horns and rate of bell ring...
My new 1' x 8' ISL I will use DC instead of DCC.
Why is that you may wonder?
I will be using a brass United Models Santa Fe 1950 Class 2-8-0 with a Pittman DC 70 motor. Since this engine is at least 57 years old and still runs like a swiss watch I do not wish to install a can motor and sound decoder.
Be that has it may.
For a layout the size you are planning I would go DCC and simply use two hook up wires to the track.
If I was using DC I would still use two hook up wires from the power pack to the track..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
What Paul said. Cost is a barrier. I switched to DCC in order to use my locos at our club. DCC and wifi might be an overkill for an oval, but if you operate two locos at a time (e.g. main+switcher or 2 on the main), DCC makes operations much more fun. Yet again, some folks don't operate that much, even with DCC. I sometimes wonder why they bother with it...
Simon
Personally, I find DCC a bit easier to wire and use.
I don't use signals or CTC - the Maryland & Pennsylvania had neither. I also don't control anything other than the trains with DCC.
So my wiring is mostly just 2 wires to the track, although for my larger layout I do need a bus and more connections to the track to avoid voltage drop.
I use a wireless throttle so no command bus is needed.
I enjoy sound occaisionally, so DCC is needed for that.
I have found that (for me) it is easier to have very slow speeds with DCC.
The major downside to DCC is cost - it does cost more.
I think that DCC has reached the point where it should be the default choice unless you have a reason not to rather than the other way around.
Paul
Ok, a quick reply. I've been an active model railroader since 1980. I started with a 4x7 and expanded it and expanded and expanded... until it is the size it is now. It was setup with switches to turn tracks on and off and to control track switches by remote control. All of this was normal DC.
Several years ago, I decided that I might want to try DCC. I bought a DCC starter pack and put it on the shelf for a future date. After a couple of years, I got it out and began to hook it up. It went pretty well with a couple of problems. I converted a couple of locos to run with DCC and tried it.
I liked it! I converted two more locos and bought three new ones set up for DCC. I've never looked back. I do not use sound and I still use my DC on/off switches and switch control. I do not need to use DCC to control everything. Yes, I occasionally run two locomotive at one with one running and anoher switching, but it is still the DC set up modified.
Do I think that you need on/off switches to control yard sittings? Yes. Have I gotten rid of excess locos that I didn't want to convert? Yes. Am I happy with the set up? Yes.
Roger Hensley= ECI Railroad - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/eci/eci_new.html == Railroads of Madison County - http://madisonrails.railfan.net/ =
MJPinSEWI mbinsewi There is no yes or no. Like Sheldon said, if you want sound go for it. I stated my layout in 2010? I think, and had nothing with DCC, and everything was DC, and had a MRC 2500 that powered my last sprawled out plywood central, so I went with DC, BUT, I wired it so I could easily switch over to DCC, if and when the time come. I wired it for cab control, 2 cabs, but I didn't use the COMMON wire method, I ran a bus wires, used feeders, and insulated BOTH rails. I set it up into 8 blocks. Now I could change to DCC if the opertunity came, OR go back to DC if I wanted. I was happy with DC, all my locos, which was a lot of Athearn and a couple of Atlas, were all DC. Then the opertunity came. I found a list of stuff on Craigs List, of all places, the ad just posted, which included everything this guy had collected, for his "dream layout". 2 big boxes of Walthers Corner stone buildings, a stack of the newest run Athearn SD40-2's, and a brand new, still in the box, unwrapped, Digitrax Super Empire Builder, with a receipt dated November, 2005. I bought it all for UNDER $300, he helped me load it up, and off I went. His job required a move to another city, and he decided to get rid of it all. I finished my track work, and keep the layout build going, but it took 2 years before I used the DCC. If I hadn't come across the Craigs List ad, I'd still be using DC, and I'd be happy. For sound effects, I bought an MRC Sound Symphony, and I still use that once in a while. Sound doesn't impress me that much. On a small layout, or even a somewhat medium size layout, you hear the diesel all the way around the lay out. Yes, you can turn it off, but then what's the point? My lay out is small, I only run one, maybe two locos at one time, and thats very seldom. I'll run a main line train, then I might park it in my hidden track areas, and run the local switcher, and switch industries. Actuall, most of my locos are still at address 3. I have a couple that run great together, and that's how I "consist" I have 2 sound locos, a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0, and a Geivo Tier 4, from Scale trains. It's up to you, you decide, so that's what I mean by it's not a yes or no answer. Either one is good. Mike. Suddenly I feel like I opened one of those cans where the snakes jump out at you & I dont think I can put the cover back on. I didn’t mean to start this debate. There is a lot of good advice here and all of it seems to have merit. I’m not exactly a newbie to model railroading even though it’s been a number of years. Back in the 80’s I had my first real layout (The Yardmaster in the Atlas track plan book) and it used block control so I am familiar with that. I was only about 10 so I didn’t realize the importance of clean track, wheels, good rail joints, etc. Eventually it went by the wayside and I started a new layout that I never finished. Anyway, I do know how how DC control works and it’s not a terrible solution on a small layout like I’m planning. I do believe I have everything I need to wire for cab control up to 8 blocks. I do like the idea of wiring it in a way that makes it easier to upgrade in the future if I decide to do it. If I came across a deal with everything like mbinsewi did I would jump on it in a heartbeat. What I have found is the great deals always seem to pop up when you aren’t looking for them.
mbinsewi There is no yes or no. Like Sheldon said, if you want sound go for it. I stated my layout in 2010? I think, and had nothing with DCC, and everything was DC, and had a MRC 2500 that powered my last sprawled out plywood central, so I went with DC, BUT, I wired it so I could easily switch over to DCC, if and when the time come. I wired it for cab control, 2 cabs, but I didn't use the COMMON wire method, I ran a bus wires, used feeders, and insulated BOTH rails. I set it up into 8 blocks. Now I could change to DCC if the opertunity came, OR go back to DC if I wanted. I was happy with DC, all my locos, which was a lot of Athearn and a couple of Atlas, were all DC. Then the opertunity came. I found a list of stuff on Craigs List, of all places, the ad just posted, which included everything this guy had collected, for his "dream layout". 2 big boxes of Walthers Corner stone buildings, a stack of the newest run Athearn SD40-2's, and a brand new, still in the box, unwrapped, Digitrax Super Empire Builder, with a receipt dated November, 2005. I bought it all for UNDER $300, he helped me load it up, and off I went. His job required a move to another city, and he decided to get rid of it all. I finished my track work, and keep the layout build going, but it took 2 years before I used the DCC. If I hadn't come across the Craigs List ad, I'd still be using DC, and I'd be happy. For sound effects, I bought an MRC Sound Symphony, and I still use that once in a while. Sound doesn't impress me that much. On a small layout, or even a somewhat medium size layout, you hear the diesel all the way around the lay out. Yes, you can turn it off, but then what's the point? My lay out is small, I only run one, maybe two locos at one time, and thats very seldom. I'll run a main line train, then I might park it in my hidden track areas, and run the local switcher, and switch industries. Actuall, most of my locos are still at address 3. I have a couple that run great together, and that's how I "consist" I have 2 sound locos, a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0, and a Geivo Tier 4, from Scale trains. It's up to you, you decide, so that's what I mean by it's not a yes or no answer. Either one is good. Mike.
There is no yes or no. Like Sheldon said, if you want sound go for it.
I stated my layout in 2010? I think, and had nothing with DCC, and everything was DC, and had a MRC 2500 that powered my last sprawled out plywood central, so I went with DC, BUT, I wired it so I could easily switch over to DCC, if and when the time come.
I wired it for cab control, 2 cabs, but I didn't use the COMMON wire method, I ran a bus wires, used feeders, and insulated BOTH rails. I set it up into 8 blocks.
Now I could change to DCC if the opertunity came, OR go back to DC if I wanted.
I was happy with DC, all my locos, which was a lot of Athearn and a couple of Atlas, were all DC.
Then the opertunity came. I found a list of stuff on Craigs List, of all places, the ad just posted, which included everything this guy had collected, for his "dream layout".
2 big boxes of Walthers Corner stone buildings, a stack of the newest run Athearn SD40-2's, and a brand new, still in the box, unwrapped, Digitrax Super Empire Builder, with a receipt dated November, 2005.
I bought it all for UNDER $300, he helped me load it up, and off I went. His job required a move to another city, and he decided to get rid of it all.
I finished my track work, and keep the layout build going, but it took 2 years before I used the DCC.
If I hadn't come across the Craigs List ad, I'd still be using DC, and I'd be happy.
For sound effects, I bought an MRC Sound Symphony, and I still use that once in a while.
Sound doesn't impress me that much. On a small layout, or even a somewhat medium size layout, you hear the diesel all the way around the lay out.
Yes, you can turn it off, but then what's the point?
My lay out is small, I only run one, maybe two locos at one time, and thats very seldom. I'll run a main line train, then I might park it in my hidden track areas, and run the local switcher, and switch industries.
Actuall, most of my locos are still at address 3. I have a couple that run great together, and that's how I "consist"
I have 2 sound locos, a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0, and a Geivo Tier 4, from Scale trains.
It's up to you, you decide, so that's what I mean by it's not a yes or no answer. Either one is good.
Mike.
Suddenly I feel like I opened one of those cans where the snakes jump out at you & I dont think I can put the cover back on. I didn’t mean to start this debate.
There is a lot of good advice here and all of it seems to have merit. I’m not exactly a newbie to model railroading even though it’s been a number of years. Back in the 80’s I had my first real layout (The Yardmaster in the Atlas track plan book) and it used block control so I am familiar with that. I was only about 10 so I didn’t realize the importance of clean track, wheels, good rail joints, etc. Eventually it went by the wayside and I started a new layout that I never finished. Anyway, I do know how how DC control works and it’s not a terrible solution on a small layout like I’m planning. I do believe I have everything I need to wire for cab control up to 8 blocks. I do like the idea of wiring it in a way that makes it easier to upgrade in the future if I decide to do it. If I came across a deal with everything like mbinsewi did I would jump on it in a heartbeat. What I have found is the great deals always seem to pop up when you aren’t looking for them.
Don't worry, you did not open anything.
This friendly debate has been going on for a decade or more.....
Except now it is friendly, 10 years ago, not always......
selector You have two locomotives. You have a simple oval of track, maybe a siding or spur. You power up the tracks and dial up the voltage. Both locomotives move. That's simple DC. You decide you don't want both locomotives moving. Now you will need to use a switch of some kind to isolate at least part of your track system from power so that the locomotive in it won't move. That's DC.
You have two locomotives. You have a simple oval of track, maybe a siding or spur. You power up the tracks and dial up the voltage. Both locomotives move.
That's simple DC.
You decide you don't want both locomotives moving. Now you will need to use a switch of some kind to isolate at least part of your track system from power so that the locomotive in it won't move.
That's DC.
How big is this oval? Because my locomotives are generally attached to 10 or 20 feet of rolling stock........
And I only "operate" one train at a time. My isolated sections of track are typically longer than my trains.......
Now if another operator is running another train - well the prototype railroads go to great trouble to avoid having two trains try to occupy the same space at the same time - my signal blocks and CTC help me do the same. The dispatcher controls the trackage available so that trains don't crash........
Or, for display operations, different trains are on different isolated routes, because I can't run four trains at once, but my layout can.
Moving or not, won't that other loco be in the way on a small oval?
selector You turn one of the locomotives around and replace it on the rails. You power up the rails and dial up voltage. Both locomotives still move, but in the same direction. Turning one of them doesn't matter because when turning it around you present the motor with turned voltage....meaning you've negated the turning around part. That's DC.
You turn one of the locomotives around and replace it on the rails. You power up the rails and dial up voltage. Both locomotives still move, but in the same direction. Turning one of them doesn't matter because when turning it around you present the motor with turned voltage....meaning you've negated the turning around part.
Yes, that makes it very easy to hook up and unhook my ABBA diesel lashups without pushing a dozen buttons.
selector Or, you'll need a more sophisticated device with some kind of logic working in it to help you to control sections of the track to reverse polarity so that the two locomotives will actually move separately, even at different speeds, and in opposite directions around your oval. That's DC.
Or, you'll need a more sophisticated device with some kind of logic working in it to help you to control sections of the track to reverse polarity so that the two locomotives will actually move separately, even at different speeds, and in opposite directions around your oval.
When separate blocks are connected to separate throttles, polarity is controlled separately by each throttle, it is very easy actually.
selector If you want two steamers or diesels to move toward each other and meet at their front pilots, touching couplers, there will have to be a gap in the rails immediately between both locos. That's DC.
If you want two steamers or diesels to move toward each other and meet at their front pilots, touching couplers, there will have to be a gap in the rails immediately between both locos.
True, how often do you do this? and Why? OK, maybe in the engine terminal.
selector In DC (correction?), the lights get brighter as the voltage rises on the rails. When the locomotive sits and can't move, it means the voltage to the rails is near "zero". In DCC, the voltage is always to the rails, and always full voltage for the scale. So, the lights of a parked yard switcher will stay on, or even dimmed if you want it.
In DC (correction?), the lights get brighter as the voltage rises on the rails. When the locomotive sits and can't move, it means the voltage to the rails is near "zero". In DCC, the voltage is always to the rails, and always full voltage for the scale. So, the lights of a parked yard switcher will stay on, or even dimmed if you want it.
Not exactly. Most of the DC locomotives made in the 20-30 years have constant brightness directional lighting. Meaning the lights come on full brightness as soon as there is about 1.5-2 volts on the rails and then stay that brightness.
In the case of my Aristo Train Engineer throttles, which use full voltage pulse width modulation to control the motor (just like your DCC decoders), lights come on full brightness long before the loco moves, and locos can be left sitting with the lights on if you desire.
And, lighting may or may not be much of an issue depending on the era you model. Daytime head lights did not even start to become common until the 1950's, ditch lights and such much later......
Again, if you like and want sound, you want DCC, no question.
If you want to play chicken with your trains, you want DCC.
If you want a big layout or have a large fleet of locos - DCC will cost noticeably more than DC.
If you want detection, signals, CTC, it will cost a lot more with DC or DCC.
Simpler wiring with DCC? - well it is different.
Things I don't need with DC:
No power buss and feeder drops every 6 feet?, each one of my control sections (block is really a signaling term) requires only one feeder. That is typically 25' to 45' of my mainline for each.
No auto reversers - My layout does have reverse loops, they actually work automaticly in the Advanced Cab Control system - how? It's a little complex to explain here.
No computer programs to set CV's or make locos run backwards to be part of a back to back consist, etc, etc.
Is my system complex? Yes, it includes detection, signaling, one button route control of turnouts, CTC, ATC, CTC or local tower control, walk around radio throttles, and more.
Would a DCC system with all these features be expensive and complex - without question.
Does DC have to be this complex, no, depends on your needs and wants, just like DCC.
swisstrainIn particular for a small layout, I would choose DCC, it keeps your wiring incredibly simple for multiple engine operation. Whatever anyone might say, there is no easier way than DCC to operate multiple engines on the same track. Also, just because you operate your trains on DCC does not mean you need to switch your turnouts with DCC, like the last poster mentioned.
My at home layout is DC, with 3 different cabs, many blocks, on rotary switches and wireless throttles. Started the layout 16 years ago.
Our club lauput is DCC, (Digitrax) and is much more user friendly for new operators. The club turnouts are 90% hand thrown pecos, also user friendly.
If I was starting with no equipment, and knowing what I know now, I would go DCC.
Dave
If you are not already invested in equipment for DC (e.g. command station) or have a bunch of engines that you want to run and do not want to go through the trouble to convert, I wouldn't even think about DC if I were you.
The nice thing is you don't really need to know anything about DCC to start with DCC and enjoy the additional functionality. You can switch between 5 engines on your tracks and switch between them as you please, independent of where on the track they sit. You can have sound or no sound, you choose (but you have the option). As you want to expand you will learn.
In particular for a small layout, I would choose DCC, it keeps your wiring incredibly simple for multiple engine operation. Whatever anyone might say, there is no easier way than DCC to operate multiple engines on the same track.
Also, just because you operate your trains on DCC does not mean you need to switch your turnouts with DCC, like the last poster mentioned.
ATLANTIC CENTRALPersonally, I have a hard time remembering all those multi button sequences to operate tunouts with the Digitrax throttle.
You and me both, I can't even remember all the positions on the turntable as I don't operate it often enough, I employ a rather archaic system of pencil and paper to remember.
I really don't think I would use DCC to control switches or anything else on the layout, tough if I run out of things to do on the layout, I would put in a dual system of being able to throw switches by DCC or push button just because I can.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
What is different with DCC?
You still need some gaps, but they would be for reversing or isolating tracks, just like in DC. In both cases, if you just want to 'park' a loco and not play with it for a while, and you don't want it making sounds or using up voltage, you isolate it electrically. You still need that switch.
However, if you don't want to break up the tracks into discrete electrical districts with switches and logic devices, then DCC permits that, with about the same costs. You can have those two diesels kiss each other at their pilot couplers and you don't need to gap the rails between them to accomplish it, and you don't need those switches and logic device. The decoders inside the diesels do that for you. In fact, without gaps in the rails, you can make a diesel move backwards and forwards no matter which way it faces on the rails. Can't do that in DC.
You can control the lighting via the decoder. Want it off? Press F0. Want it on? Press F0 again. Want to reduce the irritating steam turbo generator sounds? You can do that. Want to increase momentum and inertia settings so that the locomotive accelerates and decelerates more prototypically with only one throttle input, and not by continually raising or lowering voltage, or restoring to the logic device? The decoder will do that.
In DCC, the lights get brighter as the voltage rises on the rails. When the locomotive sits and can't move, it means the voltage to the rails is near "zero". In DCC, the voltage is always to the rails, and always full voltage for the scale. So, the lights of a parked yard switcher will stay on, or even dimmed if you want it.
DCC offers convenience and simpler wiring, generally. It's far less work wiring and controlling the rails and how locomotives behave on them. It costs...about $80-100 dollars per locomotive if you pay the shipper to provide an installed decoder. So, you can buy quite a number of switches for that.
If you want sound-equipped locomotives, but not the DCC stuff, you can run all of them on DC rails. But, you won't be able to configure the various decoder outputs using DC as it takes the digital circuitry to make all the changes to decoder functions you might wish to alter.
Decision, decisions.......
MJPinSEWI I am familiar with DC and its capabilities (or lack thereof) but I really know nothing about DCC.
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There are three major reasons I do not use DCC.
1) Like you, I am very comfortable with DC.
2) Like Sheldon, I do not like sound.
3) I have a collection of brass locomotives that I do not want to convert to DCC.
It is a personal decision, there is no yes or no right answer.
What works for me might not be for you.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
BATMAN I have a wireless DCC system and it is just magic for the kids (and me) when I roll a loco out of the Roundhouse on to the turntable, make the table turn and send the loco on its way without ever getting up out of my Captains chair.
I have a wireless DCC system and it is just magic for the kids (and me) when I roll a loco out of the Roundhouse on to the turntable, make the table turn and send the loco on its way without ever getting up out of my Captains chair.
I get that, but it would not work for me.
I have operated DCC layouts with DCC controlled turnouts and accessories and found it very cumbersome to try and remember the necessary steps to operate those accessories while also operating the train.
I have heard a number of avid DCC users on this forum also say they dislike using the DCC throttle to control turnouts or other accessories.
Personally, I have a hard time remembering all those multi button sequences to operate tunouts with the Digitrax throttle.
Long before DCC, I thought it would be really cool to operate the turnouts from a handheld throttle and tried to develope such a system for a small layout I was planning.
It is just a little ironic that now we can do it, and many people find it not so effective.
I set up whole routes thru interlockings with the push of one button that then lights up on a track diagram to indicate the route, rather than pushing 5 buttons? That button is redundantly present on both a local tower panel and the dispatchers panel.
So I can sit in my Captain's chair at the CTC panel, set up routes, control trains, see where the trains are with detection, and know that they will stop automaticly if the route is not correctly set. Mostly with technology that Bruce Chubb and Ed Ravenscroft were using in 1965.
I'm not being anti DCC here, I have already suggested OP should strongly consider DCC.
The point remains that everyone's goals are different, and can at times be best met in different ways.
My You Tube
Go with DCC. A starter set from any of the major systems will probably be more than enough for your needs. And then you will expand your layout and the DCC system you choose will be easily expandable if necessary.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
OK, I'm a DC guy, but I have lots of experiance with DCC on many layouts of friends in the hobby.
In my opinion in comes down mainly to one thing - Do you like/want sound?
If the answer is yes, you want DCC, don't think about it any more, just do it.
If, like me, you don't care for sound, for any of a number of reasons, than DCC may not be that important.
I use a complex version of DC with signaling, detection, CTC, ATC, walk around wireless radio throttles, and more. DCC would actually only ad a few features to my operation, and would make some of my features more complex to impliment.
Signaling and CTC are much more important to me than sound or the other features DCC would ad.
For me, onboard sound is too low in sound quality and very annoying after a very short time.
Everyone is different on the sound issue - but I strongly suggest you listen and learn, and choose DCC if you like sound.
With the size of your layout, DCC would probally be a better choice, but you cannot go wrong with DC either. It's your layout, after all.
"No one realizes how beautiful it is to travel until he comes home and rests his head on his old, familiar pillow." -Lin Yutang
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If you are only running one train at a time, even if it's consisted, DCC is not an advantage.
MJP,
Even with a small layout (e.g. 4 x 8' or <), I think DCC is more advantageous than DC because you don't need to have separate blocks to operate two (or more) locomotives independently. They can be on the same track moving in opposite directions...or one can be on the loop while another is in the yard switching cars. And this can all be done with a very simple wiring scheme.
With N-scale sound is possible but it's more challenging to install. Lighting effects with DCC can also make operation more realistic.
How old are your N-scale locomotives? Almost any DC locomotive can be converted to DCC. However, some are more easily done than others.
It may be advanteous for you to read up on DCC. Kalmbach makes a couple of good starter books. Although somewhat dated, Lionel Strang's DCC Made Easy is a very good primer about DCC. The author has a knack for putting complicated concepts into very understandable terms.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I might be a bit early with this question because my layout is still in the planning stages but I should probably start learning more about DCC and decide if I want it or stick with DC.
The layout I'm planning is going to be 24-30" x 96" with a continous loop and 1 or 2 switching areas. I am familiar with DC and its capabilities (or lack thereof) but I really know nothing about DCC. Do I need it on a small layout? What are the capabilities? Do I need seperate power for lighting on the layout? Are some brands better than others? Which model would give me the most bang for my buck? I'm going to be modeling N scale. I own 2 DC locomotives, is it realistic to think I can add decoders or am I better off buying different locos? I'm going to have lots of questions, and this is just scratching the surface.