ROBERT PETRICKBut it does highlight the issue with trying to do stuff based on what everybody says. It is a pain in the buttocks.
lol - reminds me of the camel being a horse designed by committee
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
My N-scale layout is 450 SF (18'X25') and Digitrax control. The plan from the beginning was to have a base station and one booster. The main busses are 12 AWG solid copper. Track feeders are 22 AWG solid copper spaced at a nominal 6 feet.
Here's a sketch of the original wiring plan showing the main busses.
The longest run on the red line is just over 42 feet. Everybody said to not worry because 12 AWG copper wire is more-than-sufficient to carry any anticipated load. So I didn't worry and ran the layout trouble-free for a month or more.
But then I did a 'quarter test' at the most remote stretches of track in the red section. The test failed. Trains ran perfectly well with no shorts or no stalls or flickering lights or anything. Just the quarter test was worrisome.
Then everybody said I need more track feeders. Even though 6 feet seems like a long spacing, every single piece of flex track has a feeder connection. The typical arrangement is that I solder every other rail joint and put a feeder in the solder. The situation is that one piece of flex track goes one way and the other piece goes the other way in a T-arrangement. I suppose I could've added a few more drops here and there, but I don't think that was the problem. But it does highlight the issue with trying to do stuff based on what everybody says. It is a pain in the buttocks.
So I moved the break point between the base station section and the booster section as shown in this sketch.
No problems since and 100% pass quarter tests. The longest buss run on both the red and green sections is right at 30 feet. I did not change or add any track feeders.
There may have been a way I could have fiddled with the control station by changing the feed trim or voltage or something, and thereby not needing to cut existing feeders and extend or cut existing busses or anything. I wanted to break the power districts where I originally placed them (several reasons), but this solution appears to be okay. Moving on.
Hope this info is of some use to the NCE OP.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
richhotrain How you gonna run 10 locos at the same time all by yourself, you wild and crazy guy? Put the command station at the end of that left side loop and run a pair of bus wires in each direction until they meet. Rich
How you gonna run 10 locos at the same time all by yourself, you wild and crazy guy?
Put the command station at the end of that left side loop and run a pair of bus wires in each direction until they meet.
Rich
Hi Rich, how you doing? Don’t you have the new NCE Multi engine operating robot? .
Realistically, two mainline trains with 3 engines each and a yard switcher, ferry yard switcher and west end industry switcher as well as the engin facility (with multiple operators) could have 10 locos running.
Alton Junction
mbinsewi I would agree with Bearman, a nice central location, close to where all the action is, but Dave makes a good point too, you could put it any where and not worry about power loss. That looks like a nice layout. Nice wide loops on the end, looks like 30" or more. If your going to have 10 locos running, I would say power districts and breakers would be in order, now that you've learned all about them from a previous experience. Mike.
I would agree with Bearman, a nice central location, close to where all the action is, but Dave makes a good point too, you could put it any where and not worry about power loss.
That looks like a nice layout. Nice wide loops on the end, looks like 30" or more.
If your going to have 10 locos running, I would say power districts and breakers would be in order, now that you've learned all about them from a previous experience.
Mike.
Thanks Mike, I see you followed my electrical challenges with the last layout. Yes thanks to Rich and Randy as well as others, I learned a lot.
This layout will have as perfect track work as I can make and color coded districts with wires separated so that electrical isolation and trouble shooting is as easy as possible.
Turnouts will all be new, checked for NRMA compliance and swich machines will be Tortoises.
The last layout had a central control panel. Not going to do that this time.
Thanks for all the replies!
Ok so locate the control station near the yard, to a terminal strip and then split to two busses one directly under the mainline tracks to the right and one to the left. There will be four Circuit Breaker protected districts. 1-Double Mainline, 2-Yard, 3-Ferry Yard and associated industries, and 4-West end industries.
On my layout I just tore up the Radio antenna was in the middle and the antenna stuck up (Looked like a smoke stack) in the middle. That layout was not a walk arround it was 10 x 12 with a couple pop ups. from what you say there should be no problem with this layout no matter where I set the antenna.
One of my terminal strips is at the other end of this bench. The wires go out like fingers down its 18' length. I just added another wire to the terminal strip when I added the RH & TT. Having the terminal strip gives me the luxury of easily isolating anything I might want to power and have a switch in, either for a temporary test or permanently. As far as the bus wire goes, they just go out like fingers and don't turn back anywhere. The ends of the bus just have the last feeder attached right to the end of it. No snubbers or loops here.
One of my terminal strips is at the other end of this bench. The wires go out like fingers down its 18' length. I just added another wire to the terminal strip when I added the RH & TT. Having the terminal strip gives me the luxury of easily isolating anything I might want to power and have a switch in, either for a temporary test or permanently.
As far as the bus wire goes, they just go out like fingers and don't turn back anywhere. The ends of the bus just have the last feeder attached right to the end of it. No snubbers or loops here.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
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I would locate the booster roughly in the middle and run one main track bus to the left and one to the right. Have the track bus wires nearly form a loop under the return loop areas in order to keep the track feeders mostly under 12" in length. You should have no problems at all with the length of the main track bus wires.
Modeling an HO gauge freelance version of the Union Pacific Oregon Short Line and the Utah Railway around 1957 in a world where Pirates from the Great Salt Lake founded Ogden, UT.
- Photo album of layout construction -
I also have the NCC Power-Pro 5 Amp system and use 12 gauge wire. I put my unit right in the middle and ran fingers of feeders out from it. If that were my layout I would place the unit in the middle under the yard and go out in both directions. I used three terminal strips so it would be easy to tap into power down the road. One at the base unit and another one further along on either side.
I have the wireless handset and just placed the receiver under the bench next to the unit and it still worked perfectly from the other end of the house some 70' away. No need to hang it from the highest rafter.
Dave is right though you can place it where you want and I don't think voltage drop will be an issue.
Hinged flip down board to mount stuff on.
Gary, I would locate the controller right there in front of the yard. I assume you have put some thought into how many power districts/circuit breakers you are going to use. If you haven't yet, I suggest you consult the web sites of Mark Gurries and Allan Gartner.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
I cannot see any way you could run a bus where the voltage drop would cause a noticeable drop in performance. Even if you put the command station at one end of the layout, its less than 50 ft to the other end of the layout. If you put the command station in the middle, any/every bus should be less than 50 ft.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Hi all, I’ve read multiple posts but since opinions vary ended up more confused an when I stared.
This is my layout. Each square = 1’
I plan on running 12 AWG for the mainline bus. The system is an NCE PH Pro 5amp.
Im looking dor suggestions on where to locate the Controller and how to run the bus. Can i just connect to the NCE System at the middle some where and then run the bus to the right and to the left?
How far until I start to see voltage drops?
Probably won’t run more than 10 locos at one time.