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DC track wiring for future DCC

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  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Friday, December 7, 2018 7:46 AM

 For short fitter pieces - just soolder the joiners to the adjacent piece of track.  Wiring feeders directly to a 1.5" fitter piece of track pretty much is overkill. Solder the rail joint on one side of it, connecting it to the adjoining long piece of track that DOES have a feeder, and the rail joiners are no longer the only connection.

 I use flex track, and I don;t feed every section. I solder alternating sections together, and a soldered pair get a feeder - so I have 6 foot soldered sections, each with a feeder, then a regular joiner, then another 6 foot section with a feeder, etc. That's PLENTY for reliable operation. No loose rail joiner is the only means of power to a piece of track, there is still moveable joints to handle expansion and contraction of the benchwork, and power is applied more than frequently enough to prevent slowdowns.

                                     --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by JAMES MARLETT on Thursday, December 6, 2018 7:24 AM
When I built my DC layout, I put a feeder on every single piece of rail except one little short one. Leaving the feeder off that short one proved to be a mistake. I eventually put a feeder on that one as well. When I switched to DCC, the wiring was easy peasy since I had the rails wired like they should have been in the first place. It's a little more work, but rail joiners shouldn't be relied upon to carry current whether DC or DCC.
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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, November 29, 2018 10:32 PM

 Not totally true. While you don;t need more than a single 5 amp booster when only runnign oen train, of that single train layout is say a 30x50 full basement layout, you will want extra boosters just to prevent voltage drop. Huge long bus runs cause voltage drop - one they get past 50 feet or so, even the draw of a single loco, or a pair doubleheading a single train, is enough to cause significant voltage drop (and also prevent the breaker from tripping in the event of a short), so using boosters spaed out to minimize the bus run prevents this. There's little voltage drop on the command bus connecting the command station and boosters, so you can string out a coupel of boosters spaced so that no bus run is more than 25 feet or so and there will never be a power issue. A giant layout with one train at a time is just as likely to need more boosters as a medium size layout capable of handling 10 trains at a time.

                                               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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Posted by Zootopia on Thursday, November 29, 2018 9:26 PM

Thanks once again for all of the suggestions, I am learning a lot and appreciate your opinions on this.

1) No I don't have any DCC locos at this current time.  I have been collecting the old DC trains for the past 30 years.  With 5 kids all of my money is going to them so this very simple layout will be there until one room is cleared out in the basement.  With the cost of DCC I probably won't be making the switch for 2-4 years.  

2) I like the idea of a booster.  I have two MRC Tech 2 Loco-Motion 1500's.  I am planning on putting one for each track so I can control two seperate loco's.  I will leave the middle open so if I need to add a booster I could add that.

3) I am planning on having two seperate bus lines, one for lower track and one for the upper track.  I will be using flex track on this and I am planning on putting feeder wires every third piece.  Since I am only planning on putting two locos when going to DCC I think that will be sufficient unless you think I should be feeder wires on every flex track piece.  With all of the rails I will soder the joints to make sure there is good connections.

4) On the upper track I am planning on using 2" extruded foam sheet to raise the track so I can see it better on the shelf.  From my understanding I don't have to use roadbed as it is mainly to reduce sound and for looks.  Let me know if that is correct, I am planning on using double sided tape or Elmer's glue to attach it to the foam/wood.  I may even use 1/2 inch for the bottom track just to make sure it stands out a little from the wood.

  • Member since
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  • From: Sebring FL
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Posted by floridaflyer on Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:41 PM

The requirement for boosters is not the size of the layout but rather how many loco's and other items requiring DCC power will be in each power district. Based on that, the entire layout could be run with one power source or require the addition of boosters. However given the size of your layout a large power district could exceed the limits of a power source and  a booster or two may be desireable.

As far as location, putting your power source in the middle of the layout cuts down on the overall distance of each bus, thus reducing voltage drop over the length of the bus. Just taking the overall size of the layout, 12ga stranded wire would be best for the bus (or buses) and 18 to 22 ga solid would work for the feeders. I would use 12ga wire for everything except the short feeders that go to the track.

You can have multiple power districts powered by the same power source, just use a CB to protect each district.This is all a rough estimate and others will have additional information. 

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:25 PM

NeO6874
Realistically, it's one of those situations where if you're planning to move to it soon, you might as well just get a DCC systemsnow (and put off $200 or so of benchwork for 6 months or whatever)

True, assuming the OP already has DCC locos, which he may not.  If he wants sound, the price goes up a bunch.

However the good thing about posting, is that I realize how much don't know.  My own layout is branchline size and will probably never need a booster.  It will eventually need more power districts.  I admit my ignorance.

Let me Hijack the thread and ask how one would divide up this layout in a wiring sense?

  1. It is 50 x 15, let's assume dogbones at each end.
  2. Because of the size it will require a booster.  Yes/no?  The power districts can be managed by multiple circuit breakers.  Arbitrarily I will pick 4 power districts.
  3. Put the booster in the middle of the layout to minimize distance of wire runs.
  1. Would the bus be the wiring between circuit breakers and each CB would supply a sub bus?
  2. Would the gauge of wire be the same in the bus and sub buses?

The introductory books on DCC I've read, show a bunch of boosters, like you buy them in a six pack.  I'm sure a lot of people don't need extra boosters but still may need power districts.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by floridaflyer on Thursday, November 29, 2018 5:15 PM

I have almost all my DCC sidings controlled by a toggle switch. I can park any loco and not have any power to the  loco's, which I see as an advantage. In addition I have a double track main line and have a bus to each one making seperate power dictricts each protected by a circuit breaker  By only running one bus the OP can only run one loco at a time. If he has a bus to each loop, powered by  separate transformers he can run two locos and control each one independently while he is using DC  and when he moves to DCC he has two power districts already wired.

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  • From: Northeast OH
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Posted by NeO6874 on Thursday, November 29, 2018 4:27 PM

BigDaddy
You wouldn't run two buses for a DCC double track mainline. 

 

Nor would you use DPDT switches to reverse, or gap every siding to shut off a locomotive or any number of other things that have to be done for a DC layout to have one locomotive sitting still while another runs around the mainline.

Realistically, it's one of those situations where if you're planning to move to it soon, you might as well just get a DCC systemsnow (and put off $200 or so of benchwork for 6 months or whatever)

 

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, November 29, 2018 3:53 PM

floridaflyer
I second MisterBeasley's idea to run a separate bus for each loop, you will be able to run each loop with a dc powerpack and it is easier to create power districts when you make the move to DCC.

Two loops might mean a double track mainline, or it may mean something else.  You wouldn't run two buses for a DCC double track mainline.  Is this really the most cost effective way to build a DC layout with the idea of later conversion?

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
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  • From: Sebring FL
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Posted by floridaflyer on Thursday, November 29, 2018 3:19 PM

I second MisterBeasley's idea to run a sepatate bus for each loop, you will be able to run each loop with a dc powerpack and it is easier to create power districts when you make the move to DCC. 

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 7:28 PM

 Yes, do install a bus with feeders around the whoel thing. Just hooking 2 wires to the rails with a loop that is 130 feet long, the trains WILL slow down at the far end, even with DC. 

                               --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 2:42 PM

I went through this on my previous "spare bedroom" layout.

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I built the layout with the intention of expanding it, and including DCC in the future.

.

I never set it up for multiple cab DC, I pretty much wired it for DCC from the get-go, and just ran one locomotive at a time. I had toggle switches to cut off power to sidings where I could park a locomotive. When the switch to DCC came, I would remove the toggles and hard wire those sections.

.

If you do it like that, it is all pretty easy.

.

I tended to run wires to every section of track even in DC. Trains just run better and everything is more reliable.

 

Reliability=enjoyment!

.

Have fun!

.

-Kevin

.

Living the dream.

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  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 12:11 PM

Yes, the wiring for DCC right away is a good idea and will improve DC performance as well.

I would run a separate bus and feeder arrangement for each of the loops, isolating them from each other where there are crossovers or other places where tracks come together.  This will make it easy to divide the layout into power districts for circuit breaker protection or power distribution.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Zootopia on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 10:54 AM

Thanks everyone for the input, I am glad I was thinking about this correctly.  It is going to be a very simple layout.  While running DC I am planning on just one engine for each track.  When I switch to DCC I will start running more than one engine on each track.  There is no switches involved in this layout (just need something while that kids can't destory).  

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 9:49 AM

Welcome to the forum

Use solid wire for the feeders and stranded for the bus.  Solid 14 ga is a pain to work with. 

Get yourself one of these wire strippers  

https://www.amazon.com/IRWIN-VISE-GRIP-2078300-Self-Adjusting-Stripper/dp/B000OQ21CA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1543420132&sr=8-3&keywords=wire+strippers+irwin

You can strip in the middle of the wire for your feeders or you can use suitcase connectors.  If the later, get the real thing by 3M

New to the hobby?  A must read before you go any further is John Armstrong's Track Planning for Realistic Operation

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by NeO6874 on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 9:49 AM

Hiya, and welcome to the forums.

Yep, you've got the right idea.  With a decent power network under the table (e.g. 16AWG or 18AWG wire, with 22-24AWG feeders), one power pack probably won't have trouble running the full layout. 

The main downside is that, DC wiring can get relatively complex if you want to run more than one train at a time, since every block needs to be able to be powered from "cab1" and "cab2" (and so on, for however many trains you want to run together).  So, when it comes time to switch to DCC, you may end up having a bunch of extra wiring that you didn't need to do.

Do you happen to have a plan in mind already?  If so, it would probably be a good idea to post a picture so that we're all on the same page.

 

If you haven't drawn up a plan, that's fine too - it just means that you might get some advice that won't apply, or something may come up that we didn't think about.

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 9:41 AM

That will work. Use #14 for the buss with say #22 feeders. Our club did that. The locos will only draw what they need for power, amps. One power pack will do for DC.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by Stevert on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 9:41 AM

Yes, installing multiple feeders on a DC layout is fine.

It will actually improve performance at the far ends of the layout since properly-sized copper wire is a better conductor and will have less voltage drop than if the current has to flow that distance through the rails.

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DC track wiring for future DCC
Posted by Zootopia on Tuesday, November 27, 2018 10:47 PM

I am new to the hobby and I am making a shelf in my basement.  The plan is to create 2 HO tracks going around the room which is 50 ft by 15 so each track will have 130 feet of track.  I eventually want to put DCC in but can't afford that right now.  I have a couple MRC Loco Motion 1500 power packs but I am not sure if it will cover the 130 feet of track.  Plus I have heard with DCC (down the road) I should install wire feeders at every flex track piece.  Is it OK to do that now so when time comes I can "swap" out the controllers and not redo my wiring?  Thanks for the help, looking forward to getting into the hobby.  

Tags: DC , HO Scale , Wiring

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