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NCE smart power

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  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Staten Island NY
  • 1,734 posts
Posted by joe323 on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:47 AM

my current layout is switched manually but if I were to go back to remote switching (Like on my old layout)I would just wire it with a CDU seperately to the AC Terminals of an old power pack.  That wasy I could have a panel diagram because as previously mention switching with DCC is kinda a pain.  Much easier just to look at a diagram IMHO.

I may go with tourtous machines someday but that would still be seperately powered.

I just like using DCC even with a booster to power turnouts.

Joe Staten Island West 

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 6:37 AM

 Changing systems does not change the answer to the original questioon.

And the ESU cabs are a lot more expensive than just adding a couple of CAB06's to allow more people to run trains with the PowerCab + SB5 setup. Not to mention, the PowerCab + SB5 setup is JUST the cab unit and the SB5, the PCP and the small wall wart is not used on the layout, you can use that at the workbench as a test/program track.

                                                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

Moderator
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  • From: Northeast OH
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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:19 PM

Vic Drago

Well, I just talked my friend into going all ESU, Control Center and componets.  He does not need the hassle in the future...

Hassle...??? Tongue Tied ???

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:37 PM

 The point you missed is that it workes BECAUSE you use the Snap-It and don't connect the switch motors right to the DCC bus. The circuitry plus the capacitor discharge circuitry prevents the kind of power glitches on the DCC bus that you'd get by just wiring the switch motors to the bus for power.

 ANd I didn't say it was WRONG, I just said MY PREFERENCE is to not operate turnouts from the DCC throttle. Because *I* find it cumbersome - also simpler utility throttles often do not have macro/accessory capabilities, and I certainly do not want ever person running trains on my layout to have the full feature throttle - there's no need.

 Do not equate someone having a different opinion than yours with them saying your opinion is wrong.

                                           --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    September 2012
  • 79 posts
Posted by B. Bryce on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 6:53 PM

Sorry for telling someone how I do it on my layout.  By the way, if I am not mistaken, he is looking for alternatives, and stated he is already using the Powercab and wants to install a Smart booster.  NCE's Smart booster takes over the command portion of the Powercab, allowing you to unplug the cab if you desire, something you can't do with the Powercab by itself.  If he wants to do it different than I do, that his choice.  Also, you are dead wrong about the excessive power consumption of the Snap-it switch machine.  I don't ever see any blips, lags, or any other types of power problems, and I am using 38 turnouts on my layout.  Since I was already running lots of locomotives, 12 to be exact, I exceeded the capabilities of the Powercab and needed a booster.  I installed a booster to run more locomotives, I did not install a booster to run the switches.  Powering the switch motors was a side benefit, not an issue.  The idea of too many things being beyond someone's ability to control at one time is wrong also.  I control 6 trains with no problems with the Powercab, just toggle through them when I need to switch to another locomotive.  Easier than a video game.  It only takes pressing one button and entering a single digit number to activate a turnout, same for activating a macro, press the macro button and a number and done.  The Snap-it is the best controller for DCC control of Peco switches, as it is already capacitive discharge unit, and has more than enough power to throw the spring loaded Peco switch.  If you are not using Peco switches with spring loaded points, there may be other switch machines that may be better suited.  Again, sorry to get your dandruff up because someone else has a different way of doing things than you.

  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:19 PM

 That is completely different than simply hooking the turnouts to the DCC bus WITHOUT the stationary decoder. Peco or Atlas switch motors witll work on AC or DC, or DCC power - just hook the control box to the power and run the wires to the switch machines. With low power power packs, like a typicla train set power pack, you can noticeable blips in speed when you throw a switch. Because of a momentary voltage sag. That happening on DCC can cause all sorts of erratic operation. When a stationary decoder such as the Switch-It is used, that problem is eliminated. NCE had one for Kato motors, because Kato needs DC (they sell an adapter to connect to the AC accessory terminals of power packs, which is basically a pair of diodes or perhaps a bridge), the Switch-Kat. Frankly, to operate from the throttle is awkward at best, regardless of the brand of DCC system, because you have to switch between train runnign mode and accessory mode. Some of the accessory decoders have an option to connect pushbuttons to operate the turnouts - so wired, it's the same as the old way used on a DC layout, with the extra ability to also control them via DCC (or a central dispatcher panel using something like JMRI). Still, it is using DCC power to run them, instead of inexpensive power packs. Even the SB5 is a lot more expensive than a basic power pack or even a wall wart that could run dozens of turnouts. The same argument goes back to the early command control dyas, long before DCC. Since you have the rails right there, with a steady source of pwoer, why not use that to power structure lights and everything? Same reason to not so do with DCC, really - the specialized power supply needed for DCC/command control costs a lot more than the basic transformer that is all you need to run lights and other accessories, so why add extra expensive power to handle the trains plus th elights ans so forth, when you can add extra cheap power to run all the non-train stuff?

                                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    September 2012
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Posted by B. Bryce on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:56 AM

I have an HO layout and I use the Powercab from NCE.  I have not had any issues running up to 5 sound locomotives with just the Powercab, but since I exceeded that number, I have had no issues with the Powercab and the NCE 5 amp Smart Booster.  I use Peco turnouts with Peco dual solonoid switch motors and power them with NCE's "Snap-it" switch controllers, which come with capacitors installed.  They work great.  I can either control the turnouts with my Powercab or by pushbutton control.  The other great thing is I can configure multiple turnouts to be controlled by a macro to define a "path" to a section of my layout.  Enter the macro number in the Powercab and all the right turnouts move to the required position for a train to get to a certain destination.  The turnouts do not even cause a microscopic load on the track bus. 

  • Member since
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  • From: lavale, md
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Posted by gregc on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 5:28 AM

rrinker
even though they may work on the AC terminals of a power pack, and the sudden current draw of a solenoid switch motor will cause weird things on the DCC line, which could affect loco operation.

bears repeating considering some of the other comments

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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  • From: Phoenix, AZ
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Posted by bearman on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 3:49 AM

I believe Cowman is correct regarding the power requirements of your layout.  However, before investing in a power booster you might want to check with NCE or any number of web sites which can provide some rules of thumb about how many N scale locos you can run given a certain current draw.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Central Vermont
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Posted by cowman on Monday, November 19, 2018 8:13 PM

Welcome to t he forums!

Is the layout just expanding or are there going to be more locos running at the same time.  With DCC it's not the size of the layout in feet of track, but the power draw that determines the power needs.

The basic NCE starter set, Power Cab, can run three HO sound locos without a problem.  It can handle more locos if they do not have sound.  Not sure of the number of N locos that it can run, but it is the number of locos running that determines the power need, not the length of track.  Hopefully someone with more knowledge on N can answer that for you.

Good luck,

Richard  

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
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Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, November 19, 2018 5:26 PM

Welcome to the forum.  I have nothing useful to add over what has been said.

You will be moderated for the next few posts, so they won't appear immediately.  That system has successfully kept Borat and his famous sister out of the forum.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    November 2018
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Posted by Vic Drago on Monday, November 19, 2018 5:01 PM

Well, I just talked my friend into going all ESU, Control Center and componets.  He does not need the hassle in the future.  Thanks for the help.

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 1,206 posts
Posted by mfm37 on Monday, November 19, 2018 4:58 PM

If you are going to use the KATO switch controllers you will ned to connect DC analog power from a power pack to those. If you wish to use DCC to control the switches you will need to install DCC accessory decoders that are compatible with KATO switch machines. NCE's Switch Kat is designed to work with KATO switches.

Quite frankly, the Kato switch controllers with a DC powerpack would be my first choice.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Monday, November 19, 2018 2:53 PM

 No, power the turnouts from a spare powoer pack or similar. You don;t want to use expensive DCC power for that, not all devices can take DCC power as an input even though they may work on the AC terminals of a power pack, and the sudden current draw of a solenoid switch motor will cause weird things on the DCC line, which could affect loco operation.

                                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    November 2018
  • 2 posts
NCE smart power
Posted by Vic Drago on Sunday, November 18, 2018 1:23 PM

I am helping a friend build his N scale train layout using all Kato Unitrack, which is 104” long x 36” d. With return train yard on one end 48” x 24”.  We have about 180 tracks and 10 switches.  He bought a NCE powercab to use on his small layout and that was all he needed since he just was running two engines.  Now with this bigger layout I believe he will need more power.  What I want to do is use the NCE smart power booster in conjunction with his Powercab. I intend to install main buss power lines under the whole layout.  

My question is with the turnouts. if I use the banked turnout controls from Kato to handle the turnouts do I just connect those to the buss lines to power them up? basic run all my power leads and the power for the turno to the main buss lines?

 

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