Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Locomotive Addressing Question

1769 views
14 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 1,835 posts
Locomotive Addressing Question
Posted by bearman on Monday, August 20, 2018 6:02 AM

Ok, so I have a Walthers Plymouth ML-8 industrial switcher, black undecorated.  I slap on a number 4, and use my Digitrax DCS50 to program the address to 0004 on my programming track.  I use a 4 digit addressing convention.

Then I remove it from my programming track and place it on my layout and using my NCE Power Cab throttle I enter 0004 and the Plymouth does not respond.  Eventually, after playing with it, the Plymouth will respond when I select loco 4, no leading zeros. 

Can anyone explain this?

Bear "It's all about having fun."

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Posted by tstage on Monday, August 20, 2018 6:12 AM

bearman,

NCE doesn't use 4-digit addressing when calling up loco addresses.  All you need to do is to enter the numbers w/o the leading zeros.  It's a little different when originally programming the decoder though - i.e. if the address is 127 or smaller.  I believe you do have to use leading zeros.  And I think I do that out of habit if the address is below 1000.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Trois-Rivieres Quebec Canada
  • 1,063 posts
Posted by jalajoie on Monday, August 20, 2018 6:17 AM

bearman

Ok, so I have a Walthers Plymouth ML-8 industrial switcher, black undecorated.  I slap on a number 4, and use my Digitrax DCS50 to program the address to 0004 on my programming track.  I use a 4 digit addressing convention.

Then I remove it from my programming track and place it on my layout and using my NCE Power Cab throttle I enter 0004 and the Plymouth does not respond.  Eventually, after playing with it, the Plymouth will respond when I select loco 4, no leading zeros. 

Can anyone explain this?

 

This is normal, 0004 on Digitrax is a short address and 0004 on NCE is a long address. Use 4 without leading zero on both systems and it will run correctly on both.

Jack W.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 1,835 posts
Posted by bearman on Monday, August 20, 2018 6:24 AM

Ok, so I have learned something that I did not know before.

Thanks

 

Bear "It's all about having fun."

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Monday, August 20, 2018 9:48 AM

Unless things have changed, the DT4xx series throttles prompt the user to make the address a long address as soon as you enter the address.  The unit beeps, the digital screen shows something like "Ext add..."Y" or "N"?", can't remember, and within a second or two max you must make your selection....Yes or No.  It then beeps again and cuts track power.  You must restore the power manually to the tracks and the new address should have taken.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Monday, August 20, 2018 10:18 AM

I use an NCE system at home, and a Digitrax "out in the world" (Free-mo).  I have developed a fairly adequate system for choosing addresses:

For 1 to 99, I use the short address.

For 100 to 127, I add a zero at the end, and use the long address

For 128 to 9983, I use the long address

For 9984 to 9999, I do not use.  Which is a problem if you own Burlington E's.

 

Special cases:  

For GN F's, which typically are three digit and a letter, I convert the letter to a number, and use the four digits

For most Burlington E's, I drop the first "9" and convert the following "A" or "B" to a number.

 

Why all this folderol?  Read this article and find out:

https://sites.google.com/site/markgurries/home/technical-discussions/decoder-addressing/address-confusion

 

Beyond the comments in the article, I will explain my 100-127 choice.  Digitrax assigns consist numbers starting with 127, and going down.  If I have a loco with any of those numbers, things will get irritating.  There tend not to be more than 27 consists on any one day of Free-mo running (foolish optimist!).  And when the system is shut down for the day, all consists are forgotten.  THAT'S how I can run GN 1.  Or SP&S 101.  Or RF&P 127.  Yup, I've got them all.

I MAY someday modify ALL the short addresses 1-99 to long by filling out the digits with two zeroes.

 

I surely do not like having to do all these "clever tricks".  I believe ESU has a new system that lets you call any loco anything you want, like ATSF 50, or GN 357C, or CBQ 9999A, or 14.  SO TEMPTING!!!!!!!!!

Ed

 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 1,835 posts
Posted by bearman on Monday, August 20, 2018 10:59 AM

Ed, I took one look at that article and my eyes glazed over.  And, for everyone's information, I started off in DCC with a Digitrax Zephyr.  When I built my current, and last layout, I wanted walk around capability but I did not want to expand the Zephyr, and went with the NCE Power Cab which has since been upgraded with an SB5 booster.  The Zephyr is now relegated to decoder programming duties on a separate programming track, although I harbor thoughts about building a small N scale switching layout and using the Zephyr to run it.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Monday, August 20, 2018 11:10 AM

bearman

Ed, I took one look at that article and my eyes glazed over.

 

That happens to me, a lot, with DCC.  And JMRI.  Be very wary of "systems" represented by all-caps.

But, at least with DCC, we pretty much have no choice.  When it works, it is just plain fantastic.  When it doesn't...........

I will say that I get REAL inspired to keep reading such articles when I have a problem.  Now I can tell other guys about Digitrax not handling addresses 9984-9999.

 

Ed

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 1,835 posts
Posted by bearman on Monday, August 20, 2018 11:40 AM

Ed, your inspiration is an inspiration to mostly other people, not me, since I don't use Digitrax except for programming, and I do not consist locomotives.  I have given up on JMRI.  I suspect that it is really decent software, with a manual that is completely confusing and long and involved.  Less is more as far as I am concerned.

Bear "It's all about having fun."

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Monday, August 20, 2018 2:48 PM

 If only the NMRA had set up an actual standard - but since Lenz could only do 1-99 for short addresses, they had to set it up so that things were pretty much a free for all to accommodate all systems. 

 Not sure the "ID locos by name" solves anything, at least if you run locos on layouts other than your own, because it will either use the number part of the name as the address if possible, or else it just uses numbers in a sequential fashion, sort of like NCE does for consist numbers, and keeps track internally what name goes with what number, so you just pick from the names/pictures - but there still has to be a DCC address in there somewhere. If the actual address is kept hidden from the user, good luck trying to run that loco on a different layout that doesn't use that same DCC system - and even if it does, what happens when there is an address conflict?

 Giant touch screens with picture selection aren't DCC Nirvana. Watched the video of Dana demoing the Piko/ESU system, and in the time it took him to get one loco added to the syste I could have selected one on a NCE or Digitrax throttle, completed the run, and selected a second loco for another train. Even when it auto-detected the loco with a Railcomm2 decoder, it still was way more awkward that just keying in the cab number. ANd I think it came up as 3, since it was a brand new loco out of the box. WHat happens, now that I have that one in the system, when I get a second brand new in the box loco with Railcomm2 support? It too will have DCC address 3 as the standards recommend. 

                            --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Monday, August 20, 2018 4:27 PM

rrinker

If the actual address is kept hidden from the user, good luck trying to run that loco on a different layout that doesn't use that same DCC system - and even if it does, what happens when there is an address conflict?

 

 

I figure, if you bring your ESU throttle, you can run your stuff on anyone's layout.  

The address conflict can happen, I guess:  One chance in 9,999, isn't it?

I also figure that the throttle will tell you the true long address if you ask it.  No reason to keep it a secret.

 

Those things said, I'm also kind of wary of this new system.  And I'm not much of an early-adopter--still don't have a smart phone, a Siri, a Nest, a Facebook.......

 

 

Ed

  • Member since
    March 2017
  • 8,173 posts
Posted by Track fiddler on Monday, August 20, 2018 6:13 PM

7j43k

I'm not much of an early-adopter--still don't have a smart phone, a Siri, a Nest, a Facebook.......

Ed

 
I don't have any of these things either, except for a fairly recent smartphone I needed for my work.  I don't really appreciate having a phone that supposed to be smarter than me. Sometimes I think the phones really rather stupid if you want my honest opinion. Could be the phone's a little smarter I suppose.
 
How I address my locomotive, knowing very little about DCC is as follows.
 
For starters I am very respectful. I say Sir.... Mr. Locomotive.... Can we start moving forward onto our operating session now.   Usually the locomotive is very responsive and operates fine after I hit the throttle and make sure I flip the switch before it gets to the next blockSmile, Wink & Grin..... sorry I just couldn't resist.
 
 
 
 
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Monday, August 20, 2018 6:21 PM

 That depends if they assign in at random, or sequentially - like NCE assigns consist numbers, unless you pick your own, it starts at 127 and works down.Clear all consists and start again - first one is 127, then 126, etc again. Also, as it took 2 long threads to get staright, not portable between layouts, because an NCE consist is more than just a number in CV19.

 I'm not anti-gadget - I have plenty of them, but once thing I will never have is any of these "Internet of things" devices that all need direct internet connections. WHY? I do have a SmartThings hub and some comaptible devices - they all talk to the hub, the hub is the ONLY thing that talks to the internet. It is stupid anbd a security risk to have every device need an internet connection on its own. That's one reason I will never buy a Nest thermostat. There are SmartThings ones, but even those are next to useless - I have 3 heat zones plus an indepndent AC system, it's not integrated. When my house was built, it did not have AC, that was added later on by the previous owners. So I would need FOUR of these ridiculously expensive devices that buy me what? I can't completely cut the AC during the hoit summer days just because no one is home - I have dogs, 2 of which are heat (and cold) sensitive breeds. In fact I do have a warning configured based on mone of my termperature sensor modules that send a warning to my phone if it gets too hot or too cold - so far it hasn't except when I held the sensor in my hands and heated it up. One place I plan to use this sort of technology is to be able to shut off all power in the basement, without having to run the full power up to the top of the steps and a switch AND run to another in a 3 way configuration - most switches are only good for a 15 or 20 amp circuit, and I'd need multiples for the power outlet circuits as well as the lighting circuits. Instead, one heavy duty contactor compatible with ZWave of Xigbee protocol and just a low voltage control at the top of the steps to trigger it. I built my own device that can report temperature and humidity with an Arduino - combine that with a remote switch and I can turn dehumidifier on and off as needed to keep the basement from being too damp. Things like that.

                                               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 7,500 posts
Posted by 7j43k on Monday, August 20, 2018 8:44 PM

Track fiddler
How I address my locomotive, knowing very little about DCC is as follows.
 
For starters I am very respectful. I say Sir.... Mr. Locomotive.... Can we start moving forward onto our operating session now.   Usually the locomotive is very responsive and operates fine after I hit the throttle and make sure I flip the switch before it gets to the next blockSmile, Wink & Grin..... sorry I just couldn't resist.
 
 
 

 
 
I am reminded of something from long ago.  It shows up about two minutes in:
 
 
 
 
 
Ed
  • Member since
    March 2017
  • 8,173 posts
Posted by Track fiddler on Monday, August 20, 2018 9:01 PM

Yes The Honeymooners. I do'nt believe there was one episode that I missed. I probably missed Norton talking to the golf ball last time I seen it. But not this timeLaughLaugh..... thanks Ed.... I like old schoolOff TopicOff Topic yes yes so sorry again.

I would like to move into DCC someday (Ya right).... maybe after I figure out this smartphone.

Okay I'm back on topicLaughLaugh

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!