I have an NCE PH Pro wireless DCC system, three power districts (Mainline, Sort Yard and Ferry Yard) each protected by a PSX CB. They are set to trip at factory default (3.81 amps). For completeness there are also two reverse loops each with a PSX-AR.
Recently I have been having problems with the mainline breaker tripping when track or trucks are dirty. Normally this just causes a stall or the loco to stop.
This problem is new since I changed all the breakers and AR’s to PSX.
NOW the tracks are spotless and all locos run without any hesitation or problem.
Here is my question. Is the breaker trip voltage too low? Or is something else going on?
Sounds to me that your problem is solved and the trip amperage is set ok.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
No, it's fine. Remember the old circuit breakers weren;t actually working, so the "trip point" was the full 5 amps of the booster.
If you would set the breakers that high, then you'd be back in the same boat - the whole layout shutting down instead of just the section with the short.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
From Gary's initial post, it is difficult to determine with certainty whether he has an ongoing problem or whether the problem has been resolved and he is worrying needlessly.
I remain just a wee bit skeptical that dirty wheels are the cause of the tripping of the circuit breaker. Yeah, I know, an inrush of current. But, as I say, I remain just a wee bit skeptical. So, if there is still an ongoing problem with the circuit breaker tripping, something else is going on here.
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich the problem has not occurred since I re-cleaned all the tracks by hand and cleaned the loco wheels. So far so good. I just don’t understand the electrical behavior. Why in all my years (well actually only 5 in DCC) have I never run into this inrush problem? The reaction to dirty track and wheels has always been stall or stop. If it happens again I plan on trying a loco with a keep alive to see if there is any difference.
As I said in my original Post, leave it to me
gary233Why in all my years (well actually only 5 in DCC) have I never run into this inrush problem?
Not too long ago the Pacific Southern club had to increase the current limit on breakers that had been in use for years because they started running longer (brass) passenger trains with multiple locomotives.
i'm suggesting you started running more stuff which requires more current and finally started crossing the current limit threshold due to intermittent starts that had been fine when you first started with DCC
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Hi Gary,
Check out our post on why dirty wheels can trip PSX circuit breakers. FYI, Larry Maier is our engineer who designs all of our DCC Specialties products including the PSX series: https://tonystrains.com/cmx-clean-machine-and-caig-deoxit-clean-dirty-track-with-excellent-results/
fiskerbiscuithttps://tonystrains.com/cmx-clean-machine-and-caig-deoxit-clean-dirty-track-with-excellent-results
the article explains that keep alives are drawing a large amount of current after they discharge significantly because of dirty track
shouldn't a keep alive, or any similar capacitive circuit have a resistor to limit the charge current which would avoid tripping a circuit breaker?
They SHOULD, but they don't always. The built in stuff (usually just for the soudn aprt - not the external keep alives for motors as well) almost never has any sort of inrush protection. Why, putting that resistor and diode on there might add 5 cents to the BOM cost!
Gary do your engines have keep alive capacitors?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy Gary do your engines have keep alive capacitors?
I do have locomotives with KA and there was a loco on the layout with a TCS RS1 Decoder (with KA). It was just idling in a separate district. The Loco I was running on the Mainline district was a BLI SD7. I thought that was the one causing the short.
fiskerbiscuit Hi Gary, Check out our post on why dirty wheels can trip PSX circuit breakers. FYI, Larry Maier is our engineer who designs all of our DCC Specialties products including the PSX series: https://tonystrains.com/cmx-clean-machine-and-caig-deoxit-clean-dirty-track-with-excellent-results/
Good article and I think I’ll try the alcohol - DeOx mixture but I don’t see how this short scenario applies to my situation because the only loco on the layout with a Keep alive was sitting still at idle in a separate isolated district protected by a separate PSX which did not trip.
I don’t think the BLI Paragon3 SD7 has a keep alive.
BLI does have a keep alive, but not one that powers the motor, it has a couple of large capacitors to keep the sound going over interruptions, and they will deginitely have an insrush current, maybe even more soo than a full blown keep alive which SHOULD have the resistor and diode to reduce such a thing (you can;t completely prevent it - otherwise the locow ould have to run for 20 minutes before it had enough charge built up to skip over a dead track section). The perhaps saving grace is the smaller capacitors used just for sound continuity will charge faster than the bigger supercaps used in full blown keep alives, so the inrush time will be shorter, but it's a moot point if the time exceeds the sense time of the breaker.
Thanks Randy, for now, keeping the track and locomotive wheels really clean is working. But I have to say, it’s very sensitive to any dirt.