Just a quick 'postscript' to my prior post...important to understand Atlas is getting RS-1 chassis (which may also be used for other engines?) in bulk from manufacturers in China. I doubt they would tell the maker to do an order of 2000 powered chassis with 1450 wired long-hood forward and 550 short-hood forward. I suspect they just told them to make all their chassis for all road switchers (RS series, GPs, etc.) short-hood forward. If it's wrong for a particular body shell, it really doesn't matter if the modeller is running a DC layout, and if they're DCC, it a super-simple fix (change one no. in CV29) to remedy. Easier to do it that way than try to micro-manage which body goes with which chassis.
I guess the bottom line, if you want your RS-1 to operate short-hood forward, go for it. If you're changing it because you think an RS-1 is supposed to run short-hood forward, don't change it - all or virtually all RS-1s were set up with the long-hood as the front.
OldEnginemanOne day we got the 8161, a GP-38 that I believe was originally built for Penn Central. It had the typical "low nose" short hood, like every other GP-38 I'd seen on Conrail.
For whatever it is worth, according to Conrail Motive Power Review by Paul Withers 8161 is actually a GP38-2. It was previously qwned by PC. According to the book's notes, CR (PC) units 8154 to 8162 were equipped with bi-directional cab arrangements.
The important thing, of course, is where is that all important "F" on the side sill that indicates the official Front of the engine. I was not able to come up with a clear side view of any locos in the series. There was one, however, that seemed to show the F on the long hood end side sill, but I could not be sure.
bearman Stix: Not quite, the engine as it is presently wired runs short hood forward, and I thought that the RS was supposed to run long hood forward. Come to think of it, there is a swap meet down here in a couple of weeks. Maybe I can score a sacrificial locomotive shell. Rich: Thanks for the offer but I will pass. Everyone: It sounds like regardless of which direction is forward, there may not necessarily be a right way or wrong way.
Stix: Not quite, the engine as it is presently wired runs short hood forward, and I thought that the RS was supposed to run long hood forward. Come to think of it, there is a swap meet down here in a couple of weeks. Maybe I can score a sacrificial locomotive shell.
Rich: Thanks for the offer but I will pass.
Everyone: It sounds like regardless of which direction is forward, there may not necessarily be a right way or wrong way.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
An interesting discussion. But... sometimes an engine itself doesn't know "which end is forward".
It was back in January 1991, and I was working as the engineer for the Conrail local at Campbell Hall, New York. Being the "only engine" between Suffern (NY) and Binghamton, our locomotives were dropped off for us by the through freights from Oak Island to Buffalo.
One day we got the 8161, a GP-38 that I believe was originally built for Penn Central. It had the typical "low nose" short hood, like every other GP-38 I'd seen on Conrail.
BUT... the control stand was mounted on "the wrong side", set up for long hood forward. So if you were going to run with the short hood forward, you were on the fireman's side with the opening door in front of you.
A strange horse, never saw another like it. Ran like any other GP-38, which is to say smooth and reliable. It's probably still out there someplace.
But that one was a strange beast!
So Bear, what you're saying is, you used to think the long hood end was the front, and now you've decided that you want the short hood to be the front? It isn't that the engine is wired wrong, it's just that you want to change it so when you tell it to go forward with your DCC controller it will move in the direction of the short hood?
Of course, if it's a free-lance railroad, you can choose either end to be the front - although I would think if the railroad is a subsidiary of the Santa Fe, they'd run the engine long-nose forward like ATSF did. If you want to run with the short end first, it might be easier just to add a second horn facing the short end, so there's a horn in either direction. Many railroads bought RS-1s and GP-7s because they worked equally well in either direction, and many first generation diesels had a horn facing front and a horn facing back. Sometimes by assigning a diesel to a branch line they could eliminate a turntable at the end of the line.
Don't forget to turn the crew around too!!
bearman No way am I going to flip any wires. I am going to change CV29. And the road name is the Maricopa & Gila River.
No way am I going to flip any wires. I am going to change CV29. And the road name is the Maricopa & Gila River.
Rich
Alton Junction
The reason why most RS-1's were built long hood forward is that they are basically stretched out S-4 switchers. And S-unit switchers had the hood as the front (only the original HH600 demo was the other way around).
Compare the S-4 and the RS-1. From the cab towards the long hood end, they are pretty much identical. So it only made sense from a railroad's perspective (and Alco's) that the RS-1 cab direction match the S-4 it was based on.
RS-2's were new after the war, but they still carried on with the long hood forward idea. It wasn't until the RS-3's that railroads really started thinking that the greater visibility offered over the short hood was better.
And recall that engineers were all used to looking down the boiler on a steam loco, so the long hood on the early diesels made no difference to them. In fact, most probably preferred it due to the better collision protection at grade crossings (which is why Southern and N&W continued the practice right through the merger into NS).
When I look on the Atlas website, all of the Alco RS-1 locos are long hood forward and the F is marked right next to the front step.
So, apparently, Bear's motor wires are reversed. If so, flip the wires.
Which roadname do you have Bear?
Actually Stix, it was undecorated when I got it and I painted it in the colors of my shortline, the Maricopa & Gila River RR. The M&GR is majority owned by ATSF, hence ATSF also operates on the railroad.
Unless I missed it, you still haven't said what railroad the model is decorated for? The RS-1 "front" is whatever end the railroad wanted it to be, and how they wanted the seats and control stand set up in the cab by Alco. Atlas might have set up their RS-1 chassis to have the short end as the front, but few (if any?) actual railroads did that, most all used the long hood as the front.
You did mention Santa Fe, here's a couple of pics of ATSF RS-1s that shows (you kinda have to look hard) the small "F" (on the yellow side sill to the left of the stantion nearest the front steps) that designated the front as the long hood. They also show the horn facing the long hood.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1874382
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=4015753
If you put the engine on your programming track and read the value in CV29, then add one to it and reprogram it (so like change it from 6 to 7) you're done.
Setting CV 29 has the additional advantage of also setting the headlights correctly. Otherwise you'll be running with the rear light on when you're going forward.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
CV29 setting chart. Scroll down to page 34.
AHA, Stix. Everything is clear now with your explanation of the manufacturers process. I guess I am not going nuts!
"Or do you mean you've been running the engine a couple of years, but just noticed that when you put "forward" in on your throttle it goes towards the short hood and you're thinking it should go towards the long hood?" This is what I meant and I have not programmed CV29, or any other CV for that matter. If I cant score another horn, I will probably change CV29.
bearman I have an Atlas ALCO RS-1. Runs great, but now after a few years, don't ask why, I have noticed that short hood is "forward", and the long hood is "reverse".
I have an Atlas ALCO RS-1. Runs great, but now after a few years, don't ask why, I have noticed that short hood is "forward", and the long hood is "reverse".
Yeah, Tom, I don't understand it either.
bear,
You could always remove the offending horn and re-located it to the other end of the cab. Or, purchase an additional detail horn and add it to the short hood. The simplest way would be to change CV29.
Looks like I have to remove the short hood horn on my Atlas RS-3s. I just checked the NYC drawings and they only have one horn on the long end. I guess Atlas wanted to cover all their bases with that release.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Yeah, Tom, that is the question. I did a google search but could not come up with anything. I have two RS-2's and they operate long hood forward. Which is also strange because the RS-2's are both ATSF #2099, one is the zebra stripe and the other is the blue and yellow color scheme and both operate long hood forward. However, come to find out that ATSF operated the locomotive, short hood forward. To make this even more confusing, ATSF only bought one RS-2 in the zebra stripe and then repainted it in the yellow and blue color scheme in 1962 but did not renumber it.
I am starting to think that changing CV29 is in order for the RS-1. It looks strange going forward and the horn is pointing to the rear.
Okay, I see your dilemma now, bear. Do you know if your prototype operated short or long hood forward?
NYC ran them long hood forward and my Atlas NYC RS-3s have horns on both ends of the hood. So that resolves that issue. With that being the case I just changed CV29 to reverse the direction the locomotive.
So, was your RS-1 running short hood forward and then suddenly switched to long hood forward?
Yeah, Tom, I found that out about attaching the shell to the chassis. But my basic question is if the short hood is supposed to be forward. Because that means that the only horn on the long hood is facing back whenever the locomotive is going forward.
Messing around with motor wires is not an option. I won't do it. Reprogramming CV29 is the viable one if I have to reverse the direction.
bearmanSo, I pull the shell to reverse it on the chassis. Wrong. The shell only attaches so the short hood is forward. Is this the way it is supposed to be?
Most locomotive shells are designed to only attach to the chassis in one orientation. So, if you want to reverse the direction your locomotive, you have to either 1) switch the motor wires going to your decoder, or 2) add or reduce CV29 by 1.
Why it changed from running one direction to the other is a mystery. At least it's an easy fix.
I have an Atlas ALCO RS-1. Runs great, but now after a few years, don't ask why, I have noticed that short hood is "forward", and the long hood is "reverse". So, I pull the shell to reverse it on the chassis. Wrong. The shell only attaches so the short hood is forward. Is this the way it is supposed to be? Or do I have to program CV29 to 1?