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I keep frying decoders when running on DC

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  • Member since
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I keep frying decoders when running on DC
Posted by TheWizard on Thursday, May 17, 2018 10:24 PM

After many years of running HO scale DCC, and not once frying a decoder after getting it installed, I've switched to N scale. I have 5 DCC engines, and a few DC engines. I'm using a Kato power pack, until I can finish converting my remaining engines.

A ScaleTrains with an ESU decoder works fine. A TCS decoder in a Kato P42 works fine. A Digitrax decoder I installed in an ACS-64 works fine.

But I've managed to fry a BLI decoder 2x now, and just tonight a Digitrax sound decoder in another P42. The interesting thing about it is, they were both running fine, didn't derail, and just quit working. The latest casualty was running solo along a 10 foot length of straight track when it just stopped dead.

I'm thinking I need to stop using the Kato Power pack ASAP, but I'm curious if anyone else has any other suggestions, before I fry another decoder. Is the Kato power pack known for frying decoders? Any and all sage advice is appreciated here.

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Posted by BNSF UP and others modeler on Thursday, May 17, 2018 10:36 PM

Are you running in 14 volts, 20 volts, or other? 20 volts could be too much for dcc decoders. Also, make sure all of your decoders are DC/DCC. The hobby has leaned mostly toward decoders compatible for DC, but just check...

I'm beginning to realize that Windows 10 and sound decoders have a lot in common. There are so many things you have to change in order to get them to work the way you want.

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Posted by wvg_ca on Thursday, May 17, 2018 10:51 PM

for N scale the voltage should be around 10v - 11v ...

if the Kato DC transformer puts out pulsed DC, the DCC decoder could be fooled into thinking it's DCC, not DC

just a guess, I run HO stuff ..

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, May 18, 2018 6:22 AM

 Most N scale locos use a split frame pickup system, and in many cases the motor wires wrap down over from the factory light board. Most board replacement N scale decoders either come with or tell you to put a small piece of Kapton tape between the motor tabs and the frame or decoder because otherwise it will short out and fry the decoder. Witht he small space, the installation is much more critical. It could be find but after it runs for a while, the bibration could cause a contact point to develop. It only takes a brief contact between a motor wire and the frame of the loco and the decoder is toast. 

                           --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by wjstix on Friday, May 18, 2018 2:47 PM

If you were in DCC in HO, and have several DCC N scale engines, why aren't you running the N scale engines on DCC?

Stix
  • Member since
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Posted by selector on Friday, May 18, 2018 5:28 PM

Stix, because he is still running 'a few' DC engines.

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Posted by jjdamnit on Friday, May 18, 2018 6:01 PM

Hello all,

TheWizard
I'm using a Kato power pack...

Just asking but isn't that a DC controller?

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by BigDaddy on Friday, May 18, 2018 6:11 PM

[quote user]

TheWizard
I'm using a Kato power pack...

Just asking but isn't that a DC controller?

[/quote]

TheWizard
until I can finish converting my remaining engines.

I expect it is.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
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Posted by TheWizard on Saturday, May 19, 2018 6:46 PM

Yes, the kato power pack is DC. I'm using it because the layout is wired like a glorified oval at this point, over 1/2 of my engines are DC, but most importantly, when I was setting everything up the Kato one was right in front of me, and the Digitrax system was packed away Stick out tongue

  • Member since
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  • From: Ontario Canada
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Posted by Mark R. on Sunday, May 20, 2018 11:04 PM

While it is possible to run your DCC engines on DC, it really isn't recommended. DC voltage can be "dirty" and produce small voltage spikes. These voltage spikes can easily exceed the maximum rated voltage of the decoder. If the decoder receives enough of these spikes, it can destroy it.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Smile, Wink & Grin

Mark. 

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by jjdamnit on Monday, May 21, 2018 2:18 PM

Hello all,

TheWizard
Yes, the kato power pack is DC.

Some decoders need to be in dual-mode to be able to run on DC.

From what I understand not all decoders are set to default to dual-mode.

If not configured properly a DCC decoder could be damaged by running on DC.

Unfortunately once the decoder is fried there is no way to tell how the CV was configured.

I suggest, if you are going to continue running the other locomotives on DC, consult the decoder manufacturers website about dual-mode or running on DC.

The Digitrax website says that their decoders can run on both DC and DCC by default.

Other decoders might not fair so well on DC power.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Hope this helps.

"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Monday, May 21, 2018 2:21 PM

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this."
"Okay, don't do that."

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by mobilman44 on Monday, May 21, 2018 2:22 PM

As the op has found out, while you CAN run DCC and DC "together", it is typically only a matter of time before something burns out.  Pick one or the other operating system, and run only those locos set up for it.

 

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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    October 2006
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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:12 PM

TheWizard

After many years of running HO scale DCC, and not once frying a decoder after getting it installed, I've switched to N scale. I have 5 DCC engines, and a few DC engines. I'm using a Kato power pack, until I can finish converting my remaining engines.

A ScaleTrains with an ESU decoder works fine. A TCS decoder in a Kato P42 works fine. A Digitrax decoder I installed in an ACS-64 works fine.

But I've managed to fry a BLI decoder 2x now, and just tonight a Digitrax sound decoder in another P42. The interesting thing about it is, they were both running fine, didn't derail, and just quit working. The latest casualty was running solo along a 10 foot length of straight track when it just stopped dead.

I'm thinking I need to stop using the Kato Power pack ASAP, but I'm curious if anyone else has any other suggestions, before I fry another decoder. Is the Kato power pack known for frying decoders? Any and all sage advice is appreciated here.

 

With a DC voltmeter across the rails, what is the voltage you read?

I use to do this many years ago and never had this issue.

I also did it with the stretch zero bit option.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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