Hi all, I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times, but I didn't see it on the first few pages here.I've been running the Digitrax DCS51 Zephyr Xtra for a few years now on a couple of small portable layouts with no issues. Max load I ever put on it at once was two switches (both w/sound) and a double-header MU (one with sound) running laps, and the Zephyr never so much as hiccuped.I've also now incorporated the Zephyr as the command station for the mainline level of my small-ish around-the-room layout (ca. 30 ft. mainline run, with one small interchange and one small stub-ended yard, each with a switcher). As before, with three sound and one non-sound locos all running, it doesn't seem to be a challlenge for the Zephyr.However, I'm now at the point of expanding the layout. Hidden lower level staging yard (which ultimately makes the layout a point-to-point from lower staging, around the main, then back to lower staging), plus an upper level wrap around the room branch line. Branch line is anticipated as having a double-headed MU for going up and down the grade to the main plus a switcher at the mine, and maybe a second MU consist on a hidden fiddle track. Hidden lower staging will serve as both ends of the point-to-point, and will likely hold 6-8 locos eventually (but probably no more than a switcher plus a MU moving at any given time). My thoughts are that I am probably looking to expand the Zephyr with a booster. I don't think just setting up sub-districts for the hidden staging and branch line will help much, especially as both are integral parts of my operations scheme and will receive frequent traffic. It'd be different if they were to be rarely used, or used just once or twice an operating session . Anyhow, the Digitrax dual-booster DB-220 caught my eye, as it will let me break the layout into 3 power districts; hidden lower staging, mainline, upper branch.Some quick questions: As the Zephyr Xtra puts out a maximum of 3 amps, I'm forced to select the 3A output from the DB220, correct? What would actually happen if I set the DB220 for 5 amps?Is there any issue in the order the trains would pass through power districts? For instance, a staged train would pass from the DB220 first district in staging, to the Zephyr on the mainline, then back to the DB220 second district as it climbed the branch line. I cannot imagine it matters, but figured I should ask just to be sure.As my overall instantaneous current requirements are relatively small when broken up in this 3 power district fashion, would there be any real advantage in upgrading my command station to a 5 am system? I'm not planning on much secondary decoder stuff, and the turnouts will likely remain manual throws for the forseeable future, so really its just the locos that will be drawing any juice. I can always install toggled blocks to individual staging yard tracks, if my loco inventory sitting on the rails ever becomes too great.Thanks for any advice/tips you guys can offer. I'm still learning all this new DCC stuff, and don't quite trust my intuition just yet!
No, you can use 5 or even 8 amps from the DB220 (though you probbaly have no reason to use 8 amps). The Zephyr output capacity has nothing to do with what power other boosters might provide. However, even 5 amps to the rails is enough to get things pretty toasty.
It doesn't really could like you will be runnign enough locos to warrant 6 )or 10 or 16) more amps of power. A single DB210 at 5 amps is probably plenty to power your layout. I would divide that up using circuit breakers. Best practice would be to not use the Zephyr to power trains - use the outpur from that to drive stationary decoders. However, nothing bad will happen if you connect the Zephyr to one section of track and the other booster to other parts.
You do need to gap BOTH rails between each section of the layout powered by a different booster or breaker. And a good size (same as the track bus) wire should be connected between the ground terminal on the Zephyr and the ground terminal on the DB210/220.
Frankly, the 3 amps of the Zephyr is probbaly enough, 6-8 locos sitting on the rails, with only 3 of them moving at any fiven time, should not exceed 3 amps. I've run more than that off my old Zephyr which is 2.5 amps. As a solo operator, there probbaly is little need for multipel power districts, either. What you can do is wire it for such, 3 sections - staging, half the branch, and the other half of the branch (unless I'm missing something in your track plan - is there also a main? If so, the sections would be staging, main, and branch. But instead of spendign the money now, just jumper all 3 together and hook to the Zephyr. Make sure to include gaps in both rails. Later on, if you decide breakers or an extra booster are needed, you can just hook it up without having to rewire the whole layout. But the Zephyr by itself should be able to easily handle that sort of load. I did it this way 2 layouts ago - each section had a bus run that came back to a terminal strip, and I just jumpered all of them together, planning to add a circuit breaker to actually divide the layout later on.
And definitely the Zephyr is plenty capable to be the command station - since it can run 20 locos at a time.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hi Randy, was hoping you'd comment. I've read a lot of your posts and comments over the years. Plus you're modeling my neck of the woods in east PA. I'm doing a short section of the LV between roughly Bowmans and Walnutport, with my hidden yards as Lehighton and Allentown. Branch line is the old Lizard Creek, which technically was LNE, but hey, my two buddies who would help on operations don't need to know that!
Anyhow, I do indeed have a main, which at the moment is all I have, really, currently powered and run by the Zephyr. Glad to hear the amps to rails can be differrent depending on power district; Digitrax was a bit vague there. But I definitely like the idea of using a booster at 3 or 5 amp for the rails, and keeping the Zephyr for an accessory bus. I've already double-gapped the leads into both hidden staging and the branch, with separate buses to a common terminal strip to gang together to the Zephyr.
But as the general consensus seems to be that I probably don't/won't have enough motive power to really warrant a booster, even if my 2 buddies and myself were each running double-headed or even triple-headed mainliners and a yard switcher all at the same time (not real likely), I'll probably just pick up a PM42 for circuit protection, and maybe toggle segregate some of my staging tracks Call it my old DC-minded brain, but having 2 or 3 hundred feet of track in total WITHOUT some sort of blocking just strikes me as as a troubleshooting headache. Besides, when I do have a derailment over a point, I'd prefer the short to affect just some of my motors rather than all of them!
Thanks again all, good tidbits of wisdom here!
I agree that your DCS51 should provide enough power for everything you want to do. I have roughly the same size layout as you, and I run a PM42 with my DC50. I also use rocker switches to turn off tracks in my staging yard and round house, mostly so unused engines don't accidently take off is someone calls up the wrong thing.
One thing you will want to make sure to do is configure the PM42 to flip faster than the Zephyr and at a lower current (1.5 amps is my suggestion).
I agree, your dcs51 should be sufficient.
The one thing that bugs me is the dcs51 is below nmra standard for ho voltage. But all its direct competition also lacks in voltage. But if you buy a booster you'll have to trim the volts down.
A low top voltage affects top speed and bemf. You get better bemf control with higher voltage pulses.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Thanks guys, much appreciated. Guess I can save that $175 for some other new toys!
It occurred to me that my first reply probably didn't make much sense, talking about a "consensus" with only one respondent and all. Forgot that I posted the same question at a different forum, and thought I was addressing that thread... which had basically the same replies!
Anyhow, I'm working in N, so the voltage being below recommended for HO never caught my eye, DigitalGriffin.
Thanks again all!
That is actually how I did my previous layout - I got a DB150, actually, a full SEB Xtra with a DT402, for a super price from a dealer who was shutting down and retiring. The DB150 went to my rails via a PM42 for 4 sections - staging, half the main, other half of the main, and then the never finished cement plant branch. The Zephyr output I used to drive the Tam Valley Singlets that ran my turnouts.
Obviously I'm doing Reading - that layout was part of the C&F branch. The yard is still there, but that industrial park north of Tilghman just east of 100 is where the cement plant used to be.
The original Zephyr is even lower voltage than the Xtra, to make it suitable to all scales. I never had an issue with BEMF control or top speed - most models run far too fast anyway. I even ran the DB150 set on the N scale setting instead of HO. A bit lower sure beats the over 18 volts that the Atlas Commander put out if you used their power supply. PowerCab uses the same DC input voltage as the Zephyr Xtra.
The original Zephyr is even lower voltage than the Xtra, to make it suitable to all scales. I never had an issue with BEMF control or top speed - most models run far too fast anyway. I even ran the DB150 set on the N scale setting instead of HO. A bit lower sure beats the over 18 volts that the Atlas Commander put out if you used their power supply. PowerCab uses the same DC input voltage as the Zephyr Xtra. --Randy
Well I respectfully disagree. Nmra specs are there for a reason. Trains are designed to run with 12 volts to the motor. By the time voltage drops are factored in you are below 12 volts with most manufacturers starter dcc sets.
And how many times have we seen passenger motive power rated LOWER than their prototype top speed? And that is with dcc spec output.
And I know for a fact better motor control happens with greater voltage. Voltage equals torque and torque means better control because it better overcomes internal losses.
Now don't get me wrong, I love the dcs51 as a starter set. I still think it's a better choice than a power cab. But if I were to improve two things it would be the dcc voltage output and the lcd display. (A dotmatrix 2x20 char display is $5 when bought in bulk) Even if I buy a booster for $125 I have to either disable the booster on the dcs51 or trim the booster output. The usability issue I can solve with a lnwi.
I was at an operating session held by my club president. He was running the old 2.5V Zephyr on a 30x30 layout with no booster. We had 10 trains running with no issues.
Still, Griff has a point about voltage drop. No one tested it during the op session.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.