I would agree setting up the layout so that it's either all DC or all DCC is a good idea if you want the option for both. My main point was that you don't have to re-wire your whole DC layout to convert to DCC. If it runs well on DC, it will run well on DCC.
If you really must, use a DPDT center off toggle, connect the middle to the layout where the current DC power pack connects, then connect the terminals on one side to the DC power pack, adn the terminals on the other side to the DCC system. So the entire layout is either DC or DCC, never both at the same time. This is perfectly safe, if you think you will need to be able to revert back to DC. This will be fine until you get into the finer aspects of DCC like autoreversers and block detection, these things tend to only work with DCC, so you would no longer be able to switch back to DC. But in the beginning it might be an option if you have some sentimental locos you want to run but aren't worth converting to DCC.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
richg1998I will add, our club tried running a couple blocks in DC and some in DCC. As men will gab and not pay attention, we ran a DC loco into a DCC block and the DC throttles can handle two and a half amps. We had four throttle capability. There went the five amp booster. No more of this.
Hence the expression, "Never the twain shall meet." Don't ever cross DC and DCC. You're better off with only one even plugged into the wall at a time. When I made the switch, I unwired the DC power pack permanently. It runs my turntable now, but is not connected to the track.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I will add, our club tried running a couple blocks in DC and some in DCC. As men will gab and not pay attention, we ran a DC loco into a DCC block and the DC throttles can handle two and a half amps. We had four throttle capability. There went the five amp booster. No more of this.
At home I could unplug the DC and plug in the Power Cab on the facia so no issue.
As far as converting locos, I would do a current test at 12 vdc and stop the motor with my finger and record the current. Also isolate the motor leads from the frame and check with an ohm meter. Some motors have the motor frame half internally connected to each brush. Almost smoked a decoder that way. Did an ohm meter check first. The program track might have caught it but you never know.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I think most of us who converted a DC layout to DCC just disconnected the wires to one DC power pack and connected up the DCC controller instead. As someone said, it just takes the place of one power pack or throttle. If your layout runs well on DC, it will be fine on DCC.
Many DC engines made in the last 10-15 years will have an eight or nine pin receptacle for plugging in a decoder, so it's not hard - although with sound, you might have to study the engine's innards a while to find the best place to put a speaker.
Athearn blue box engines aren't too hard to convert to DCC, but you have to remove the motor to insulate it from the frame (a good time to put in a better motor by the way) and then 'hard wire' the connection to the decoder. Sounds daunting, but once you've done one the next is a lot easier.
Welcome to the forum Drew
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy 2002p51 How about a name?
2002p51 How about a name?
And RailPro is, in fact, an alternative to DCC, except you install a Railpro reciever, I believe they call it into hte locomotive and not a DCC decoder.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Why not consider RailPro. No special wiring needed. Install a decoder, run your trains.
Mine is set up like Richards (cowman). I think if you gapped both rails when you set up your blocks, I think you would be good to go, as is.
Mike.
My You Tube
If you put the command station in the middle of you mainline, your will only have a 16' run to power the furthest reaches of the layout.
Wiring for DCC site isn't the easiest site to master if you are a newbie.
Don't read some of the above suggestions as "don't bother us" answers. There is a definite learning curve and it's something you have to make the effort to learn, we can't spoon feed it to you. But we are also here to prevent you from making expensive mistakes by buying the wrong thing or doing something ill advised.
Don't think about running DC in some blocks and DCC in others. If a loco crosses over to the "other side" all the magic and expensive smoke runs out of the system. Some people, epecially those with big loco rosters, do run only DC throw a switch and run only DCC.
A club I belonged to was wired in the early 1980's with #24 telephone wire, fourteen blocks, one reverse loop, common rail, all hand-laid and worked fine when we started using a five amp, NCE Power pro with maybe three DCC locos. we turned all block switches on. A few quirks but it worked fine for a while and went to #14 wire. We would run as many as seven sound locos. Got quite noisy at times. lol.
My home layout, hand-laid, #22, three blocks I left it as is with a NCE Power cab.
Leave it as is and give it a try. Experimenting is part of the fun.
Edit.
I believe the power routing at switch points was the main issue.
Do look at how you ensure power to various pieces of track, to keep voltage drop within tolerance. For instance, if a feeder goes to a spot beyond a turnout and that track continues 20', you will want more feeders for DCC. Many follow the approach of a feeder to each "piece" of track. For instance, with my 3' flextrack, and soldered rail joiners, I have a feeder about every 6' so the electrons only go up to 3' either way. That's one rule of thumb. There are various ways to address this but research the concepts and then check whether you need more feeders.
On your Proto 2000 locos, the box should say whether they are "DCC ready", which usually just means you can remove a jumper on the circuit board and plug in a decoder. If not adding sound, the issue of speaker room is moot, so you have options on decoders such as TCS, LokSound, etc. Do some research on which decoders have good motor control. Adding sound means room is needed for speakers. On a cab unit (E, etc.) it is pretty easy to fit speakers, such as the 1.1" HiBass. For hood units (GP, SD, etc.) space often is more challenging. Steamers usually have plenty of room in the tender. I prefer the LokSound Select sound decoders, but the TCS WowSound are getting good reports, and they may have a "kit" for your specific locos. Check their website for the installation examples.
I have enjoyed converting DC locos to DCC/sound as a project so have gone whole hog there. I usually start over, removing the circuit boards & bulb lights that may burn out (replaced with LEDs). For speaker room, I will mill the weight as needed for the room I want. Do research the speakers. Some will say that you just can't get much low frequency from small (HO) speakers so the comparisons are all within a range not worth considering. IMHO there is a lot of difference in various speaker setups that are worth learning about. Speaker enclosure volume helps greatly, especially for the small "micro" (cell phone type) speakers.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Yes, a "starter" system should do just fine. Make sure you do get one that's expandable. I think NCE is such a system. You will find that DCC has standards for everything about the track and the trains, but very little about the command systems, so you can run anybody's locomotives and decoders with anybody's command system, but if you like one particular throttle, you must have that company's command system. My advice is to make sure you like the throttle, because that is your personal interface to everything else.
Sound decoders are often very locomotive-specific, so without knowing the manufacturer and model of an engine, it's impossible to make suggestions. The P2K engines may have a drop-in sound decoder, but in some of them it's going to be a job to squeeze in a sound decoder and a speaker.
If your old Athearn BB engines run really well, you can add a decoder to them as well. I have a number of them myself, but they are from the 1950s and 60s. The only one that still runs is very noisy, so it was never worth getting a sound decoder for. I've taken a few of the others, removed the motors and gear boxes, replaced the horn-hooks and they now run as dummies, or "honorary engines" as I like to call them to respect their years of service.
BigDaddy What wire gauge is your bus and feeders? Is it common rail?
What wire gauge is your bus and feeders? Is it common rail?
It's been a couple of years since I did the wiring but I believe it's all 16 gauge and, no, it's not comon rail.
betamax Difficulty in conversion depends on a number of factors. Information can be found here: https://dccwiki.com/Digital_Command_Control_Advantages_Over_Direct_Current which would be a good start. The big issue is the wiring. Since DC has a different method of supplying power compared to DCC, often the wiring needs to be upgraded.
Difficulty in conversion depends on a number of factors. Information can be found here: https://dccwiki.com/Digital_Command_Control_Advantages_Over_Direct_Current which would be a good start.
The big issue is the wiring. Since DC has a different method of supplying power compared to DCC, often the wiring needs to be upgraded.
Meant to include the quote. Thanks for this link, lots of good reading in there.
Thanks for this link. Lots of good reading there.
I have several blocks, but no reverse loops or wyes and when I converted to DCC I took wires, attached them to the other side of my Atlas Selectors, just like another power pack, attached them to the NCE Power Cab as per the instructions and away the new locos went. All my turnouts are manually controlled. I do throw all the blocks when I switch from to DC to DCC or put them in the OFF position, as I would have if I wanted a train to not move in DC.
For me, not a great electrical engineer, it was a simple operation.
Good luck,
Richard
Henry enters stage right and right on cue asks about wire sizes/lengths. And there is that other thread about which system is better Digitrax or NCE. The advice I would offer to the OP in this regard is do your research, it is your money and you will be spending a serious amount of it not only on the system but on circuit breakers and whatever other accesories are necessary.
Others can answer your first question, but there are no red flags that jump out at me.
There is always a discussion on which it "the best" starter system Digitrax or NCE. The NCE Power Cab is the entry level system. The controller is also the command station, so you can't just unplug it and move it somewhere else. Instead of rehashing the whole thread, go here and ask there or here what you didn't understand
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/268903.aspx
Loksound pronounced with a hard 'o' and TCS Wowsound are the most popular, I guess followed by Soundtraxx. Loksound has their own programer, which is kinda neat, but an added expense. There is a free software program called JMRI which a lot of people use to do extensive programing of the decoders. You don't need either to start with.
I found out last night, if you have a high end, Scale Trains Rivet Counter loco, you need the Loksound 4.0. That is their top of the line decoder and it allows you to record and install your own sound files. Most people don't do that. Their Select line is perfectly adequate for most everyone else. They have a Select Micro version which is smaller for smaller applications.
People do convert the Blue Box locos to DCC. There are youtube videos on how to do that. Older HO engines pull more amps than new engines. It is recommended that you do a stall test, measure amps as you briefly stop the flywheel. Decoders come rated to put out only so many amps.
If you want to add sound to those locos, you may have to mill the weight or the frame to make room for a speaker. Everyone recommends replacing the headlights with LED's (not hard)
I think Allan Gartner addresses conversion on his site "Wiring for DCC." There is also some literature out there which indicate that plug and play will work.
There are also some electrical/electronics gurus on these forums who will probably get around to answering your questions. I suspect that the first questions they will have of you however will be what size is your bus and what size and length are your feeders. I assume from your description that the bus is 36 ft long.