Starting first layout. All DCC. Looking at NCE Power Cab for a 10 x 6 layout to run 3 engines w/sound, signal lights, wired frogs, switching and group-switching. Also need circuit breakers. So what do I need to add to the NCE Power Cab to wire this all up?
By 10 X 6 do you mean an island? My suggestion would be to provide a little more information about your layout plan.
For example, how many power subdistricts are you going to have? Each power subdistrict should be on its own circuit breaker. I use two PSX1's from Tony's Trains. My layout is 50 sf +/- but the only electric load is the locomotives. All ground throws, for example, are manually operated. I dont know if the 2 amp Power Cab will be enough for all of the "things" that will be electrically wired in your layout, and I leave that to others who will no doubt be in a better situation to answer a question in this regard. I will say that my layout ran three locomotives on the Power Cab with no problem.
I would also recommend that you consult Alan Gartner's web site, Wiring for DCC. You will be checking it with regularity as you are wiring your layout.
One more thing, you will find all sorts of recommendations regarding the wire size to use. I went with 14 AWG for the bus lines and 18 AWG for the feeders. some might consider this a bit of overkill, but wire is cheap at your local DIY hardware store.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
The 10 x 6 would not be an island. And not necessarily in a rectangle configuration. Access from 1 or 2 sides basically. The actual track plan has not yet been completed determined. The plan is to have a yard, one main line with one alternative line. And run 3 to 4 engines. I'm leaning towards an NEC Power Cab (5amps) to run 3 trains.
Power subdistricts is still a learning curve for me at this time.
Thanks for the tip to Alan Gartner's site. My pre-design challenge is understanding DCC wiring.
Most people run switch machines from a separate power supply; I think it can be as simple as a wall wart or and old DC power pack.
Tortoises, and Blue point (a mechanical) both have provisions for powering the frog. Not everyone powers their frogs, but there is no downside to doing so. There is also the frog juicer which comes as a single, double or six output device to power frogs.
You need a big enough gauge wire for your bus and enough feeders to prevent voltage drop.
There are DCC decoders that can do group switching and block detection. That's a whole topic to itself.
Circuit breakers with the Power cab can be tricky. Read the part about circuit protection on this page:
http://mrdccu.com/curriculum/nce/101.html
For track planning, John Armstrong Track Planning for Realistic Operation is a must read.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
No, kenben, the Power Cab is a 2 amp system. The Power Pro is the 5 amp system. And what do you mean by alternative line? Actually, the first thing you should do is come up with a layout plan, then you start wrestling with the DCC wiring.
Big Daddy, I have had no issues with the PSX1's that I have and the Power Cab.
Yes, it is 2 amps. Alternate line: Maybe 2 main lines is better. I want to be able to run 2 trains on 2 separate lines and also work the yard.
And yes, the layout plan comes first. I just want to get a complete understanding of what I need to be planning to include on and under the layout.
Other than the obvious, ie electrical wire, screws, etc., you will need a place to mount the circuit breakers and a location on the front panel to mount the Power Cab PTP panel. I have located my circuit breakers underneath the benchwork, others have been known to locate them on the fascia on th eoutside of the benchwork, just depends on your preference. If you are going to add an additional throttle then a cable and location for a UTP panel on the fascia is in order, as well.
Finally, and this may be obvious, a suitable outlet to plug in the Power Cab power supply.
kenben Starting first layout. All DCC. Looking at NCE Power Cab for a 10 x 6 layout to run 3 engines w/sound, signal lights, wired frogs, switching and group-switching. Also need circuit breakers. So what do I need to add to the NCE Power Cab to wire this all up?
If so, it should be adequate for your purposes with that size layout and 2 or 3 locos.
If you haven't purchased the Power Cab yet, you might want to consider the PH-Pro which is a 5 amp system and provides plenty of power for future expansion - - larger layout, more locomotives.
You should power frogs, signals, turnout switching machines from a separate DC power supply to conserve DCC power for the locomotives.
How many circuit breakers do you anticipate? Each power district needs to be protected by its own circuit breaker. The PSX circuit breaker is ideal for this purpose.
Since your preliminary plan is to have one main line, a yard, and maybe an "alternative line", perhaps a siding or second (double) main line, you could have three power districts. That said,you may get away with fewer power districts.
For sure, it would make sense to isolate the yard as a separate power district. Then, the main line and the alternate line could be a second power district. If you want to avoid having the main line shut down in the event of a short on the alternate line, then you will need three power districts, each protected by its own circuit breaker.
The input for each circuit breaker comes from the booster. The output side of each circuit breaker will have its own bus, two heavy gauge wires with two set of lighter gauge feeder wires connected to the track work from the bus in the respective power district. It would be best to color code each set of bus wires separately and differently from the other sets of bus wires.
Hope this helps.
Rich
Alton Junction
I would ditto Rich's 3 power district recommendation with 3 circuit breakers. And I would also go at least 1 AWG heavier with the wires than the recommendations you will find all over the internet. My buses are 14 AWG when 16 AWG will do, and my feeders are 18 AWG when 22 AWG will work. Wire is cheap, but you do not want to go through the hassle of tearing wiring out because you have expanded your layout or the reality becomes that the wire was too light to begin with.
I also ditto color coding the wiring. It may seem to be a very small and inconsequential recommendation, until somewhere down the road you have to get underneath your layout and deal with spaghetti.
And, if you do use the PSX circuit breakers you will save some coin by purchasing the PSX3 rather than 3 PSX1's. However, you will have to consider the dimensions of the PSX3 and factor this into your benchwork location. And, one major word of advice, if you are electricity challenged, the way I am, then study the wiring diagram that comes with the circuit breakers and keep the diagram in front of you as you wire them.
You will also have to consider how you are going to connect the feeders to the buses.
sktrainsYou might be pushing it for the power cab, but the great thing about nce is its easy to upgrade with a smart booster and add dumb boosters as you go Also if you call NCE technical Assistance they are very helpful if you tell them what your doing they will tell you what you need
That is what I did with my Power Cab system, I just added an SB5 so I could add additional plug in locations, more UTPs, more throttles etc. However, I suspect that I would have gotten away a little cheaper if I had bought the 5 amp Pro Cab in the first place.
It is good to be planning ahead, at least exploring the electrical plans in parallel with developing your track plan. Many good comments above already.
Once you get ready with a track plan, I suggest calling Tony's Trains for suggestions. They were helpful in my final decision on DCC system as well as which sub-district circuit breakers / reversers to consider for my track plan and likely amp draw needs. For instance, with my 5A NCE I just needed the less expensive OG-CB and OG-ARs, but for example, those don't mate with the Power Cab, I believe. Thus, I recommend their input on how components might behave (or not) with each other.
I found it helpful to obtain my electrical components (DCC system, reversers & circuit breakers) and a loco when doing my benchwork. I built a 5' L-shelf to run between two table legs that holds my DCC system and other electical components, but just built that and attached it to a 3' track to test and learn my setup. That minimized under table work, since I just had to mount the shelf.
I found the Kalmback booklet DCC Guide useful for the basics, supplemented by info here and on sites such as mentioned above.
On my 5'x10' layout, referring to the mentioned booklet, I found I just needed 16AWG bus wires, and I preferred the stranded, easy to handle. Got that at Lowes. Feeders were 22AWG solid wire (easy to solder to the rail). Do color code your wiring and keep notes and diagrams for future reference. There are many opinions and guidelines available on wire size & type.
You will also want to research options on connecting feeders to bus wire. Some insist on soldering, more bullet proof, while some are ok with (the correct size, name brand) IDC "suitcase" connectors. I decided on the IDCs.
I used Tortoise turnout motors on my code 83 turnouts. I like them lots. They have two sets of auxiliary contacts, useful for (1) frog powering and (2) indicator lights by the track. I added the latter on my mainline turnouts as a fun eye candy feature.
Plan to do some soldering. If not experienced, it just takes some practice and the right tools. For instance, you want to know how not to melt the track ties when soldering feeders. On that one, there are options such as wired rail joiners, as opposed to soldering the feeder to the track.
Of course you will want to decide how to operate your turnouts and where to locate any related controlling switches. On my smallish layout, I decided to just have a central control panel, built per a MR article on a piece of sheet aluminum, with track schematic, DPDTs and nifty dual color LED indicator lights.
Have fun!
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I plan on all wiring and modules (circuit breakers etc.) to be mounted under the benchwork and of course the Power Cab plug-ins on the fascia.
I have not purchased anything yet, and I will look into the NCE PH-Pro. My layout looks like it will have 3 power districts so I'll need 3 circuit breakers. Don't quite grasp if I will need boosters, 1, 2 or 3 of them.
I am very organized so all wiring will be color coded and routed very neatly with a clear "road-map" (schematic) of the layout.... once I completed understand all the additional "bells & whistles".
Paul: Sound's like Tony's Trains will be a good source for more of my power questions. I have a bunch of Kalmback books and booklets and current MR magazines going back to 2009 and some of my dad's from the 50's and 60's.
As far as turnouts, I watched that video on programing switches using a Digitrax system. That looked pretty cool and might make life a bit simpler. Not sure if NEC offers something like that yet. And I will be using a bunch of Tortoises.
At 5 amps, the PH-Pro should be more than ample for your plans, you should NOT need any boosters.
bearman At 5 amps, the PH-Pro should be more than ample for your plans, you should NOT need any boosters.
You might want to check out RailPro before you spend money on a DCC system. I wish I had.
http://www.ringengineering.com/RailPro.htm
Does anybody else have experience or knowledge with this RailPro? It looks pretty impressive at first look. Is this totally a different approach and bypasses DCC altogether?
I do not have any experience with RailPro but I seem to recall that someone on these forums purchased the system and did a thorough review a few years back. Dont know how to find the thread, unfortunately. In the alternative you can start a new thread with the subject being "Does Anyone Use RailPro" or words to that effect.
kenben Does anybody else have experience or knowledge with this RailPro? It looks pretty impressive at first look. Is this totally a different approach and bypasses DCC altogether?
But, and this is just my personal opinion, I would stick with DCC and forget about Rail Pro. DCC is tried, tested, and proven, much more so I suspect than Rail Pro.....or dead rail for that matter.
Plus, most of the users on this forum are either DC or DCC, so most of the help and advice will come in the form of DC and DCC, not Rail Pro... or dead rail.
Thanks Rich. I really don't want to start my railroad on an unproven technology in the HO model train universe. I got the HO bug from my dad back when I was 4 or 5 year old and he was scratch building everything and of course back then it was DC. Now that I'm ready to jump in, DCC is the way I want to go. It has been in use for awhile and a proven technology for HO model train.
Now I just have to start designing my layout and make the dream a reality with the hepl and guidence of all modelers here.