40 feet is quite a distance. If you placed your booster in the middle that would be 80 feet across. Quite an ambitious layout for sure. An additional smart booster might be a better way to go. Placing the boosters 20 feet from each end would go a long way to cutting down on voltage losses and the size wire you need. It would also allow you to run more than 10 active trains at a time.
With 5 amps you can run about 10 active trains or over 40 idle one's...yes 40. Today's modern engines rarely consume over ,5 amps each when running full throttle (even with sound) and .1 amp when idle
If you run 5 amps 12awg aluminum will get you within 8% voltage drop. This isn't ideal but if you have feeders every 3 feet it will be a lot lower. You have to remember your track is a parallel conductor adding to the vietual thickness of your bus.
That said copper would be a lot better. You could get down to 14awg and still be okay.
I would recommend stranded over solid core any day. Stranded is better at conducting high frequency signals due to something called skin effect. And stranded is easier to work with.
However for feeders from the bus to track I have switched from stranded to solid core 18awg. Less stray wires is a good thing when soldering to rail. It looks neater and is easier to quick solder in place.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
You said you have the 10 ga. left over from a job you did. So you've dealt with it.It will work fine. You obviously know how to work with it.Good luck.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
garya BroadwayLion Both wires are copper. Aluminimum wire would create so many problems (oxidation) that it is mostly useless unless you are building cross-state transmission towers. Every device you connect to would have to be rated for aluminimum wire. I thought speaker wire was copper, too, with a coating, but I Googled it and lo and behold, some is actually aluminum.
BroadwayLion Both wires are copper. Aluminimum wire would create so many problems (oxidation) that it is mostly useless unless you are building cross-state transmission towers. Every device you connect to would have to be rated for aluminimum wire.
Both wires are copper. Aluminimum wire would create so many problems (oxidation) that it is mostly useless unless you are building cross-state transmission towers. Every device you connect to would have to be rated for aluminimum wire.
I thought speaker wire was copper, too, with a coating, but I Googled it and lo and behold, some is actually aluminum.
The only reason to use aluminum is cost: You get more volume per pound than copper. The tradeoff is the wire will be heavier than copper. They would plate it with copper to make connections and soldering less problematic. The better stuff will be pure copper.
Some cheaper ethernet cables also use copper clad aluminum wires to save money. It does impact performance.
Gary
#10 solid wire is not going to be very fun to work with because it is really stiff especially if it is cold. I would use something else. Suitcase connectors won’t work with it and you are going to have a hard time connecting it to the transformer. If you use another size wire and connect it to the #10 remember that wire, like a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link. #20 wire on the other hand is a little too small for my liking. I use #18 (door) bell wire. It is a solid pair of red and white so you don’t get them mixed up. You can easily solder it and you can connect it to a #12 bus wire with a suitcase connector.
Lion, what is the "fidelity" of speaker wire? I may want to use it foe my sugar cube speakers.
Moe
LION would not use stranded wire on the layout of him except in certain applications (power from the trucks) where flexibility would be required.
Stranded wire leaves too great a chance of a strand reaching out and shorting something.
For most railroad applications you do not need the fidelity of speaker wire.
The cheapest source of wire is to buy CAT-5 cable and strip it down to its individual pairs or even conductors. Sure 100' of Cat-5 cable looks expensive, but you are really buying 800' of hook-up wire.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
No, I meant that the two conductors, being tied together, run too closely in parallel to run long distances. And #20 is too light for most bus wires anyway, so there is no point in using as such.
Fully aware the OP said feeders - someone else suggested it for the bus instead. For short lengths you cna easily tear is apart and make a pair of feeders - I still say stranded is not as well suited foor feeders, and also #20 is going to be a bit large with N scale rail, especially if going code 55.
#10 is probably overkill on the bus. And expensive. And hard to work with, especially solid. I always use stranded for the bus, it's easier to work with. Check for ways to centrally locate the system, to minimize the bus length. If it's going to be 40 feet because that's how far it is from the corner of the layout all the way around, perhaps moving the DCC system to the middle of the long side will reduce the bus - the WIRE might be 40 feet long, but if the DCC system connects in the middle of that, the longest run is actually 20 feet. I'd suggest #12 stranded for the bus, and something closer to #22 solid for the feeders.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
kevinihrke I am just starting an N scale layout and am wondering if I can use stranded 20 gauge speaker wire as feeders from the track to the bus wire. The speaker wire I have is copper colored on one side and silver colored on the other side (I believe that this silver wire would be an aluminum wire). Is that OK to use or should I only use copper wire? Lastly, I have a large quantity of solid copper 10 gauge wire, can I use that as a bus wire or is that too thick. I read a wiring basics for DCC and it suggested 12 gauge for bus lines that are more than 40 feet. My bus line will be more than 40 feet so I thought there wouldn’t be any problem if I used 10 gauge. Thank You. Kevin
Referencing the table here:
https://dccwiki.com/Wire_Sizes_and_Spacing
Using 10AWG for the power bus is a little more than needed for N scale, but in cases like this, it won't hurt either. Being solid, it might be a little stiff, as long as it won't be subject to flexing, it is fine for that application. Being solid, twisting isn't easy, so just keep the wires close together with wire ties.
For feeders from the power bus to the track, 20AWG might be a little heavy from the cosmetic point of view, but it is fine as well. The silver colour may be a tin plating or a copper alloy, as aluminum has no benefit as a plating on conductors, being more of a problem than a solution. It is usually the core with copper plating for ease of connection/soldering. (In a case like this, one wire would be noticeably larger than the other.)
You think it's aluminum wire? Do a scratch test and see if the silver comes off and reveals copper. Try to make a soldered joint with it. Some twin wire will have one copper and one silver in color to keep the wires correct in connections down the line, copper would be positive and silvered would be negitive. The plastic coating at one time had one wire side smooth and one wire side had ridges.
Stranded wire will be harder to solder then solid wire to the N-scale rail usually soldered on the inside of rail so not to be seen but not to interfear with those big N-scale wheel flanges. But I'd guess you could solder the wire to the outside, I did.
kevinihrkeI have a NCE Power Pro (not power cab) and the holes in the back of the unit won't accept a 10 gauge wire so is it OK to run a short length of wire from the DCC unit that is thinner than the 10 gauge wire I plan to use and then attach that thinner wire to the 10 gauge bus wires?
You can't make the holes bigger in the Power Pro so you either have to file you wire down to a smaller diameter (which I wouldn't have the patience to do) or use smaller wire to connect to the 10 ga.
I think you are going to find 10 ga annoyingly stiff.
edit I shouldn't put words in Randy's mouth, but I think he meant the strands of wire, in each speaker wire were parallel. Separating the 2 wires doesn't solve that problem. Solid wire is easier to solder to rails to use a feeders. 22 ga is adequate.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
kevinihrke I may be confusing terms so let me make sure I have my DCC vocabulary right. Doesn't a bus wire run from the DCC unit under the layout and a feeder wire runs from the bus wire up through the base of the layout to the track and get soldered to the track? I may have these terms mixed up so I will attempt to clarify what I am tring to ask. The 20 gauge speaker wire would connect to the 10 gauge "bus wire" under the layout and then the 20 gauge wire would be fed up to the track and be soldered to the track. The wire is a basic GE speaker wire so nothing expensive. I was concerned about the speaker wire having a silver wire, not sure what that wire is made of and if it would be acceptable to use or not. Lastly, I have one other question. I have a NCE Power Pro (not power cab) and the holes in the back of the unit won't accept a 10 gauge wire so is it OK to run a short length of wire from the DCC unit that is thinner than the 10 gauge wire I plan to use and then attach that thinner wire to the 10 gauge bus wires? Just a quick add on, the speaker wire can be pulled apart easily so it could be used like two separate wires so would that solve the "noise issue"? Thank you, Kevin
I may be confusing terms so let me make sure I have my DCC vocabulary right. Doesn't a bus wire run from the DCC unit under the layout and a feeder wire runs from the bus wire up through the base of the layout to the track and get soldered to the track? I may have these terms mixed up so I will attempt to clarify what I am tring to ask. The 20 gauge speaker wire would connect to the 10 gauge "bus wire" under the layout and then the 20 gauge wire would be fed up to the track and be soldered to the track. The wire is a basic GE speaker wire so nothing expensive. I was concerned about the speaker wire having a silver wire, not sure what that wire is made of and if it would be acceptable to use or not. Lastly, I have one other question. I have a NCE Power Pro (not power cab) and the holes in the back of the unit won't accept a 10 gauge wire so is it OK to run a short length of wire from the DCC unit that is thinner than the 10 gauge wire I plan to use and then attach that thinner wire to the 10 gauge bus wires?
Just a quick add on, the speaker wire can be pulled apart easily so it could be used like two separate wires so would that solve the "noise issue"? Thank you, Kevin
You have it correct. I'd say people didn't read your OP carefully. RIF.
10 Gauge wire is fine for a bus wire, if a bit heavy. 20 gauge wire may be a bit big for N scale tracks feeders, but if you already have it the price is right. Speaker wire may work for feeders, but I'm not sure how easy aluminum is to solder. Worth a try.
You can use a thinner wire from your DCC system then attach to your bus.
Speaker wire is probably not a great bus wire - it's too closely parallel. That's asking for crosstalk and noise in the signal. Same with low voltage landscape wire.
A very good wire for feeders is alarm wire. It comes as a loosely twisted pair, so they are easy to split apart, they are about #20, solid conductor. For HO and up, a good size without being too big. Probably a bit large for N scale.
Hello to another Kevin!
.
Speaker wire, like most things, has many different "grades" you can buy.
Some speaker wire is probably the best wire you can buy. Look for "Oxygen Free Copper (OFC) and you probably have a good product. I can imagine it will give excellent results if used for DCC track wiring.
However, the wire you asked about, 10 gauge speaker wire, is WAY TOO HEAVY to use as feeder wires. For a bus wire system it might work great.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Well, like all things in the hobby, it depends on your aim, or your chief aim, or your aim with several factors considered for every decision and outcome.
Whhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatt?
The heavy stuff, regardless of alloy (providing you can adhere it well to the rails, as in soldering) should be fine for a bus. The lighter stuff is also fine for feeders. The trick is to keep it out of sight and out of the way of the flanges if possible.
I suspect you are unaware, from what you ask, that the gauge value numerically descends with an increase in girth. IOW, 10 gauge is thicker than 12, and 12 is thicker than 14. I use 14 gauge solid copper, but my runs don't exceed 20 feet and my total amperage across the system, undivided, is a mere 5 amps. I'm almost over-built. Your 10 gauge should stand you in good stead for many tens of feet. It's just that it's a bear to bend.