DCC or DC?

[richg1998]

I could not find a product diagram for this loco but sometimes the couplers have to be removed.

The OP should check HO Seeker.

He should find a Photo hosting site to post a photo here.

Also, the DC option might have been disabled by the previous user. Usually the DC option straight from the factory works.

First generation Tsunami decoders did not work on DC though if the loco was modified some years ago.

Rich

[BigDaddy]

gthomson

That being said, what would you recommend for a simple DCC set up? new plan is to run a track with DC and another with DCC.

I have a NCE power cab.  The Digitrax Zephyr is a comparable starter system.  If there is a model railroad club close to you, that you might join, see what they use.

Is your plan to have two separate tracks, one DC the other DCC without any possibility of crossing over to the other side?  Most people are afraid of equipment damage if one crosses over to the other. 

Murphy never sleeps.  The preferred way to do it is a DPDT switch and run only DC or only DCC.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/177102/2052396.aspx

 

[mbinsewi]

gthomson

That being said, what would you recommend for a simple DCC set up? new plan is to run a track with DC and another with DCC.

There are no other screws, so, it takes some coaxing to get the shell off.

As far as DCC sets, I suggest you start another thread, in this same forum, Electronics and DCC.

My only experience is with Digitrax.  There are a few different brands out there, and to get an assesment or a reccomendation, you need some input from other members.

Starting a new thread will get their attention.

Mike.

[gthomson]

mbinsewi

So you took all 4 screws out, that are on the corners, and the front coupler screw? Did you try to wiggle it a little?

Yes did the above but it was not budging. I even got a very thin blade round the edges to try and lever it out and the front budged slightly but not the rest. The only option I had was to widen the chasis edges and then try and force it out but was not willing to try that.

That being said, what would you recommend for a simple DCC set up? new plan is to run a track with DC and another with DCC.

 

[mbinsewi]

So you took all 4 screws out, that are on the corners, and the front coupler screw?

Did you try to wiggle it a little?

I'll take the shell off of one of mine, and report back.

Mike.

EDIT:  I just took the shell off of one of mine.  4 corners screws, and both couple screws, front and rear, and it's free.  BUT!  it was stuck on there like crazy, the body shell is a very tight fit over the chassie.  Once you get it off, you'll see why.

First I tried to go around the joint between body and frame with a #11 blade, that was even tough to do, then I started at the rear, in the coupler pocket area, (that looked like the best place to start with hopefully the least amount of damage) with a small screw driver and just started to gently pry, and it finally started to move.

 

[gthomson]

For some reason could not get the chassis off the engine. Took the screws out as the diagram suggested but could not pry it off without sticking a screw driver in to lever it which I did not want to do.

[gthomson]

Mike Stix & Henry I am going to open it up and post an image of what it looks like. My friend didn't mention changing anything in the decoder so I'm guessing the offer wasn't there. I think at this point I'm going to leave it as is because I want to run it on DCC. I'm sure I can pick up the same or similar DC engine anywhere and add it to my small DCC collection.

[BigDaddy]

gthomson

Not sure what to do with it now as I have to admit, the DCC functionality is really cool. I can see the reason people choose it.

It sounds like you are just beginning in model railroading.  Not having 100 old DC engines leaves the door open for moving to DCC.  Starter systems from Digitrax or NCE are in the $150-170 range.  

DCC is not necessarily intutitive and a beginner book from Kalmbach would be useful. 

 

[wjstix]

If your friend with DCC happens to also have "Decoder Pro", a computer application you can use to program decoders, you can ask him to 'read' the info on the decoder. It will work out what type of decoder it is (manufacturer etc.), and how it is set up. It does that on a programming track, you don't need to open up the engine.

As someone noted (I believe), CV 29 (kind of the main control value) can be set to allow the engine only to be run on DCC. Some people do that because blocking the engine from using DC can sometimes solve some problems running it on DCC. If so, it can be changed without needing to open up the engine...not that it's hard to open it up, generally just removing the two screws holding the couplers in place and removing the couplers and coupler boxes will allow the body to slip off.

[mbinsewi]

Excellent !  Now you have a reason to switch to DCC ! 

On another note, you should be able to unplug the decoder from the harness and plug in a jumper plug, which will convert it back to DC.

When you get comfortable with removing the shell, you could post some pictures of just what you have.  Jumper plugs are not expensive.

Mike.

[gthomson]

for those who helped out, I tested it on a DCC system and everything worked great on channel 3. Sound, forward/reverse, bell, horn, lights front & back, fading lights. I was advised NOT to run it on my DC system. Not sure what to do with it now as I have to admit, the DCC functionality is really cool. I can see the reason people choose it.

[gthomson]

gmpullman

The third photo here shows what it may have looked like before the decoder went in.

Thanks guys for all the help and thank you Ed for this link. I'm a little uncomfortable opening it up since it's so new but this diagram is great. I have a friend with a DCC layout so I think I'll take it there first to see if it runs on his track.

 

 

[mbinsewi]

maxman

Although not clear, I believe that the OP does not have a DCC system since he purchased it assuming it was DC. If that is truly the case I don't think he can change much of anything.

The OP mentions in his second post that he was going to take it somewhere that had a DCC system, and try it out.

I mentioned that just as a heads up that he might have to try different addresses.

What Ed said makes sense, with the dummy plug, he'd be back in business with DC.

I think I have collected a handfull of the Digitrax version, along with Athearn boards.

Mike.

 

[gmpullman]

maxman

If that is truly the case I don't think he can change much of anything.

Unless the decoder is plugged in to an 8 or 9 pin socket. He could get hold of a dummy plug and everything should revert back to strait DC unless there was also resistors for the headlights as there are on some dummy plugs.

As mentioned above, removing the shell would be the first step.

The third photo here shows what it may have looked like before the decoder went in.

http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Walthers/Walthers%20EMD%20F40PH%20WK/Walthers%20EMD%20F40PH%20WK.html

 

Good Luck, Ed

[maxman]

mbinsewi

You might also have an address issue. Some leave the address at 03, which is the default address for all decoders, and some change the address to the number on the loco.

Although not clear, I believe that the OP does not have a DCC system since he purchased it assuming it was DC.  If that is truly the case I don't think he can change much of anything.

[mbinsewi]

I'm with Michael, take the shell off and see what you have.  Take note of the make of the decoder, and number, and post a picture.

You might also have an address issue.  Some leave the address at 03, which is the default address for all decoders, and some change the address to the number on the loco.

Mike.

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

Take the shell off and post a picture of what you see.

 

[gthomson]

richg1998

How high did you turn the power pack up? There might be another issue like a CV. It has been some years since I have tried to do that with a decoder on DC.

Hi Rick, I turned it up to Max. It's one of these which came with an original train set I got years ago. The sound comes up fine, builds to a cresendo and then steadys out but no light or movement.

https://www.terapeak.com/worth/bachmann-spectrum-magnum-transformer-controller-power-pack-44-6681-ho-scale-n-g/222260424664/

 

[richg1998]

A DCC sound decoder was installed. The power pack has to be turned up quite a ways to maybe five volts just for sound and maybe seven volts to begin to move. Nature of the beast. The microprocessor needs five volts to just wake up.

How high did you turn the power pack up? There might be another issue like a CV. It has been some years since I have tried to do that with a decoder on DC.

Rich

[gthomson]

Though possible, I'm thinking a DCC decoder got installed in it. The equipment was purchased but never really used so it should be in good shape but will definitely bring it over to a DCC track to test it out. thanks both for helping out

[Omaha53]

Since you said that you bought it from an estate sale it is possible that it has not been run for a long time. In which case, the oil and grease in the gears may have thickened to the point the motor can not move the gears. If this is the case you need to disassemble the gears, clean them and relube them.

[MisterBeasley]

Sound is probably a big clue.  My guess is that the original owner installed a decoder, thus making it DCC.

If it's a newer decoder, they may have set a CV to make it DCC only.  Find a friend with DCC, or a club or shop, and you can change it.  

[gthomson]

This is not a thread to start a debate but a question for those with more knowledge.  I just bought the following engine from an estate sale with the assumption is was just straigth DC, nothing fancy but when I put it on the track it starts up with sound but doesn't really go. 

https://www.walthers.com/emd-f40ph-standard-dc-via-rail-canada-6404-eb14db

Did I buy the wrong thing? am I missing something or should I be worried about damaging the engine on my Bachman easy track layout?