Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Why don’t decoders have a setting for 128 speed?

2481 views
14 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2014
  • From: Moneta, VA USA
  • 1,175 posts
Why don’t decoders have a setting for 128 speed?
Posted by gdelmoro on Sunday, January 14, 2018 7:21 AM

Ok, I know the 128 speed is not a CV29 value and that it is the control station not the decoder that sends the 128 speed option to the decoder but WHY?

It is very frustrating to begin a train moving then you remember it needs to be set to 128 speed. Tou either stop the train or if you try to select 128 on your controller it stops until you add throttle.

Is there some reason this can’t be an option on the locomotive decoder? If it can, has anyone done it?

Gary

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Phoenix, AZ
  • 693 posts
Posted by woodone on Sunday, January 14, 2018 7:47 AM
OH, but CV29 does have a value for setting speed steps. Bit 2 in most cases. Who’s decoder are you working with?
  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada
  • 252 posts
Posted by CNR378 on Sunday, January 14, 2018 8:30 AM

What DCC system are you using that yo need to set speed steps for each train?

At my club using Digitrax DSC-200 (and DCS-100 before that), the OpSw's are set to always use 128 steps.

Peter

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • From: Moneta, VA USA
  • 1,175 posts
Posted by gdelmoro on Sunday, January 14, 2018 8:51 AM

woodone
OH, but CV29 does have a value for setting speed steps. Bit 2 in most cases. Who’s decoder are you working with?
 

I have LocSound, TCS, BLI and Bachmann But the question was a general one. 

Gary

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • From: Moneta, VA USA
  • 1,175 posts
Posted by gdelmoro on Sunday, January 14, 2018 8:53 AM

CNR378

What DCC system are you using that yo need to set speed steps for each train?

At my club using Digitrax DSC-200 (and DCS-100 before that), the OpSw's are set to always use 128 steps.

Peter

 

I’m using NCE Procab system. The system maintains the information until I remove the locomotive from the layout. If I want to use it at a later time an place it back on the layout I need to reprogram the 128.

Gary

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,877 posts
Posted by maxman on Sunday, January 14, 2018 9:22 AM

If you use JMRI for programming, there are 28 speed steps.

And some people don't like using 128 speed steps, I being one of them.  I belong to a club where many have DCC equipped locos.  And many don't adjust the locos to start moving at speed step one.  Very frustrating to me to have to get up to speed step 40 or 50 (of 128) before the loco moves.  I can get starts just as smooth with 28 speed steps by slowly advancing the speed controller and observing what the engine is doing.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Sunday, January 14, 2018 10:32 AM

 There doesn;t need to be a setting in the decoder because the decoder automatically can figure it out based on the control packets it is receiving. There's no need for any option on the decoder, what would that buy you? If the system sends 28, the decoder responds properly. If the system sends 1128, the decoder responds properly. Having a setting would make things even more confusing if you send 28 and it's set for 128 or vice-versa, and the loco doesn't move.

 I still can't believe there is not a setting to make NCE default to 128. Time and time again it is shown that (especially slow speed) response is significantly better on 128. You should be able to make the global default anything you want. Digitrax defaults to 128 but you can configure the default to be 28 or 14 if you want.

                                --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • From: Moneta, VA USA
  • 1,175 posts
Posted by gdelmoro on Sunday, January 14, 2018 11:54 AM

rrinker

 There doesn;t need to be a setting in the decoder because the decoder automatically can figure it out based on the control packets it is receiving. There's no need for any option on the decoder, what would that buy you? If the system sends 28, the decoder responds properly. If the system sends 1128, the decoder responds properly. Having a setting would make things even more confusing if you send 28 and it's set for 128 or vice-versa, and the loco doesn't move.

 I still can't believe there is not a setting to make NCE default to 128. Time and time again it is shown that (especially slow speed) response is significantly better on 128. You should be able to make the global default anything you want. Digitrax defaults to 128 but you can configure the default to be 28 or 14 if you want.

                                --Randy

 

 

I’m guessing you already talked to NCE.  I like the 128 setting because I get really good low speed control and it smoothes out that jerking you get with some locos.

Gary

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Sunday, January 14, 2018 12:13 PM

 

gdelmoro

I’m guessing you already talked to NCE.  I like the 128 setting because I get really good low speed control and it smoothes out that jerking you get with some locos.

 

It isn't the speed step setting that makes any one internal drive smooth...it's the BEMF sensitivity and how you configure your decoders to manage and to respond to BEMF from the motor.  This has been true of modern decoders since about 2006 or so.

The fewer speed steps there are, the more 'discrete' the variance between the speed at which the drive propels the locomotive from step-to-step.  When you add more steps, they are less discrete.  Using more steps means, simply, that the difference in speed is less...less discrete...as you add each step to your setting.  It won't necessarily make your locomotive move more 'smoothly'.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Sunday, January 14, 2018 1:08 PM

 It all comes down to if you have a voltage range from 0-12V and control it with 128 steps, each step is a finer change thant if you divided the same range into 28 steps.

 Some recent MR reviews of DCC locos show this - they tested the loco on both 28 and 128 steps and you cna see how, with no adjustments whatsoever, a loco might start at 3 SMPH on step 1 out of 128, but control the same loco with no adjustments with 128 steps and at step 1 it runs at less than 1 SMPH.

                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Ontario Canada
  • 3,574 posts
Posted by Mark R. on Sunday, January 14, 2018 3:44 PM

My old Atlas Commander I had years ago would always default back to 28 steps every time it was turned on. Had to manually reset it to 128 steps every time it was turned on.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • 1,358 posts
Posted by SouthPenn on Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:18 PM

Go here and scroll down to page 34. The chart there shows what CV29 should be set for 128-speed steps.

South Penn
  • Member since
    January 2014
  • From: Moneta, VA USA
  • 1,175 posts
Posted by gdelmoro on Monday, January 15, 2018 1:40 PM

OK so I called NCE and they tell me the easiest thing to do is when I power up the DCC System just select 128 on the controller. From that point any locomotive on the layout or placed on the layout will be in 128 speed as long as the decoder supports that and the proper CV29 value is entered.

Gary

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Monday, January 15, 2018 4:16 PM

gdelmoro

.. as long as the decoder supports that and the proper CV29 value is entered.

 

This is key.  The system may need to be configured to do 128 speed steps, not sure, but the decoder needs to have CV29 programmed with the right value.  The value will also include lighting parameters, which way the locomotive should move in reverse, etc, so you have to refer to a table or a calculator and remember all the characteristics you want before you select the right number and enter it.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Monday, January 15, 2018 6:31 PM

 Right - but that value for CV29 is the SAME value used for 28 steps. So if you forget to press the 128 button, the loco will still operate. There's no way to set a decoder for 128 steps only. 

                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!