Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Paragon 2 VS Paragon 3

16618 views
13 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2019
  • 2 posts
Posted by spacecase on Saturday, March 30, 2019 4:31 PM

I am new to this and just about senior citizen. I bought 2 Paragon 3 and both motors died about an hour after running. I bought the rolling thunder system but now I will dump it and not buy any BLI trains again because this is expensive hobby and I feel I got ripped off by the poor quality of BLI. I am running N and seems lots of problems as maybe they can't make it right that small. I also bought a Kato with sound, not cheap, first one with sound and died after about an hour. Sent it back and I told them to test the one they will replace it with so they did and that one has been running perfect for a long time. Quality of the Kato appears not up to they hype it seems. I got few Bachmann with DCC and Sound and never had a problem with any of them. I would like to know the best brand with the least problems, in N scale.

  • Member since
    August 2018
  • 7 posts
Posted by Scott G on Tuesday, March 12, 2019 10:19 PM

They are not even close

 

motor is from 70’s 3 pole can motor Take one apart and see for yourself

  • Member since
    August 2018
  • 7 posts
Posted by Scott G on Tuesday, March 12, 2019 10:15 PM

Believe it or not they put cheap 3 pole can motors with copper finger brushes in the paragon 3. The decoder limits the motor current and controls the drive voltage so the engine performs smoothly at all speeds. The decoders do not last Even with the over current protection.  I have 9 paragon 3 engines and almost as many decoders replaced. You notice how BLI touted 5pole skew wound motors from their birth in 2001 tthrou every version of QSI, and Paragon unt paragon 3? Paragon 3 states new high torque motors. Read correctly it is telling the truth, high torque high current motors from the late 70’s. They are identical to the ones atlas put In the 9in turntable motor kit. If you ask me they are making a tyco mistake almost as bad as the power torque motors of the late 70’s.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Friday, December 22, 2017 10:12 PM

cudaken
So, the guts are the same far as motor and drive train. 

Yes.

Have a good one, Ken Big Smile

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Maryville IL
  • 9,577 posts
Posted by cudaken on Friday, December 22, 2017 9:44 PM

 Thanks Folks. Sorry it took me so long to reply, I did not know my question was moved to the DCC section.

 So, the guts are the same far as motor and drive train. 

 Thank you all again, Ken

I hate Rust

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, December 22, 2017 10:39 AM

 I'd really like to know what the failure mode was on that one. The switch is a true mechanical switch in the line to the smoke unit, it's not some sort of electronic switch that could be bypassed by a decoder glitch. Either there's a complete circuit from the decoder to the smoker or there's an open circuit.

                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, December 21, 2017 8:34 PM

It can be adjusted through CVs 336 and 237, and it can be turned off using F7 through the throttle, but you have to turn it off each time you select the locomotive.

Or, you can manually switch it off. As I mentioned above, I had one burn out and it took the decoder with it even though the manual switch was turned OFF.

 IMG_8095_fix by Edmund, on Flickr

Regards, Ed

  • Member since
    November 2015
  • 1,345 posts
Posted by ATSFGuy on Thursday, December 21, 2017 6:29 PM

The HO Paragon 3 Steam Locomotives models come with steam, can you adjust that or turn it off?

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Pa.
  • 3,361 posts
Posted by DigitalGriffin on Thursday, December 21, 2017 5:50 PM

rrinker

Paragon was QSI. Paragon 2 and 3 are their own decoders. Only the PCM models used Loksound decoders, they were sold under the PCM name, not BLI.

                                    --Randy

 

 



Quite right.  And not to slam BLI, but their steam chuff is the least "steamy" sounding of all the modern decoders.  It's very harsh and stacato like, especially at the higher chuff speeds.  I do appreciate the bass hookup though in the paragon 3.

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

Moderator
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Posted by tstage on Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:37 PM

cudaken
Are the motors and pulling power the same? Does the Paragon 2 use a QSI decoder? Pretty sure the Paragon uses Loksound.

Ken,

The original Paragon decoders were QSI.  The Paragon 2 and 3 are their own proprietary decoders.  The only BLI-related products that used Loksound decoders were the PCM (Precision Craft Models) locomotives.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
  • 16,367 posts
Posted by gmpullman on Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:36 PM

cudaken
Are the motors and pulling power the same? Does the Pargon 2 use a QSI decoder? Pretty sure the Pargon uses Loksound.

Hi, Ken

I'm looking at my 2015 Broadway Catalog where they were bragging about all of the improvements in Paragon 3 over P2.

Today's Paragon 2 is not QSI and Paragon 3 is not Loksound.

The main "new feature" was the addition of a transmitter board over the existing board which sends the low frequency signal out to a trackside receiver, then amplified and fed to a sub-woofer.

 IMG_5183 by Edmund, on Flickr

That little blue wire is the antenna. You can see the transmitter board stacked on top of the main board.

Other features that they were touting are:

2 selectable bells

4 times expanded Autopilot storage

1 long non-looped whistle

Expanded startup and shutdown sequences

Alternate whistle for locomotives with a second horn (?)

64 or 128 MB Sound memory (depending on locomotive

2 watt audio output

90 dB audio signal 

 

...and about a dozen more "features" that really don't amount to much.

If you want to look at them all you can go to pages 10-11 here:

http://www.broadway-limited.com/20162017bliproductguide.aspx

I have about a dozen Paragon 3 locomotives and they run every bit as good as any of their previous engines, Blue-Line, Stealth, QSI, Hybrid Series, Precision Scale, etc.

Like you, I don't give a hoot about huffing and puffing smoke. I had a smoke unit go up in smoke and I happily ripped it out. Mind you, it was SWITCHED OFF with the switch under the cab.

The sound files in the P3 steam decoders are, well, not very pleasing to my ears. The exhaust chuff has an odd loping gait that sounds like a locomotive that is "out-of-square" meaning the eccentric cranks are not 90° apart.

The bell has a goofy extra "ding" to it about five seconds after you shut it off.

I have a couple of P3 Diesels, too. SD-7s and RSD 15s if I recall. Nothing spectacular there, either. Good running engines but I much prefer the sound files available on a Loksound decoder.

The Rolling Thunder system is marginally useful at best. I set mine up, messed with it about an hour, shut it off and it has been sitting in a corner of the layout room ever since.

Others here may have more information than I'm offering. I'm just letting you know what my experience has been.

 

Good Luck, Ed

 

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:33 PM

Paragon was QSI. Paragon 2 and 3 are their own decoders. Only the PCM models used Loksound decoders, they were sold under the PCM name, not BLI.

                                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:30 PM

Ken, I don't believe, or maybe I should say I can't believe, that BLI would be changing anything substantial in their drive mechanisms over the years.  Apart from some repairs here and there, as their refurbished page shows, I think their basic design, engineering, and assembly manages to do the job from Paragon to Paragon.  It's the other things they tweak, like software, or a new decoder with new features, or they add details they might not have previously.  An example is that Rolling Thunder system built into each Paragon 3.

I can't say I know this for a fact, but I think it stands to reason.  Had the good folks at that firm spent half a million on some serious hardware upgrades, you'd think they would have announced it widely in their marketing for the Paragon 3 locomotives.  They did that for BlueLine, for the Brass Hybrids, for Rolling Thunder, why not for a 'new, improved and more powerful drive adding more traction?"

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Maryville IL
  • 9,577 posts
Paragon 2 VS Paragon 3
Posted by cudaken on Thursday, December 21, 2017 4:24 PM

I run HO scale and thinking about a GE AC 6000 in CXS colors. What is the big difference between Paragon 2 and 3?

What I do know is Paragon 3 can use there Rolling Thunder system. Don't care that much about it so not a big deal. Paragon 3 has smoke, don't want that either.

Are the motors and pulling power the same? Does the Paragon 2 use a QSI decoder? Pretty sure the Paragon uses Loksound.

Thanks for the coming answers.

Cuda Ken

I hate Rust

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!