Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

district power loss?

2363 views
16 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 9 posts
district power loss?
Posted by JOHN MACLEOD on Friday, November 24, 2017 2:52 PM

I have just added power distrcts to my layout and have noticed that when 2 locomotives get into this one district I get a faint light come one in my CP6 and the engines slow down. When one train leaves the district the other runs fine and light goes out. Only happens in the one distrct. I have cleaned the track and wheels on locos. I have as much voltage in this district as there is in all others. Polarity not a problem. I do have turnouts in this district but am not shorting on them. Any suggestions. There was no problems before I created the districts.

Thanks.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, November 27, 2017 4:04 AM

Just out of curiosity, how many of the 6 power districts are you using on the CB6?

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • 6,099 posts
Posted by Phoebe Vet on Monday, November 27, 2017 6:13 AM

You didn't say how long the wire run is, how long the district is, or the gage of wire you are using.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Monday, November 27, 2017 7:13 AM

 That's the downside of using a light bulb as a current limiter. They aren't all or nothing. The fact that the light glows faintly means you are drawing enough current in that section to almost light up the bulb, which is using up some of the voltage causing a drop, which slows the locos. 

 If it only happens in that one section, you may have too long or too thin a wire running to that section. Or inadequate feeders. This will cause a voltage drop which increases the current draw to closer to the light bulb's threshold.

                                --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 9 posts
Posted by JOHN MACLEOD on Monday, November 27, 2017 11:22 AM
I am using all 6 districts on the cp6. I could reduce this if I need to. My bus wires are 14 gauge, and feeders 18. I have a maximum run of 10-12 feet from district back to cp6 unit.
  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 9 posts
Posted by JOHN MACLEOD on Monday, November 27, 2017 11:27 AM
Thanks for your feedback, I will double check wire size and length. I do not have a length of run from District to cp6 unit of more than 10-12 feet.
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Monday, November 27, 2017 5:02 PM

JOHN MACLEOD
I am using all 6 districts on the cp6. I could reduce this if I need to. My bus wires are 14 gauge, and feeders 18. I have a maximum run of 10-12 feet from district back to cp6 unit. 

John, there is no reason not to use all 6 power districts on the CP6. The reason that I asked about how many were in use was to suggest that if you had an unused one you could move over the two wires to a different terminal on the CP6. That would at determine if the CP6 was at fault. That said, you could swap wires on two of the power districts including the one causing the problem and see what happens.

The 14 gauge bus wires certainly seem adequate as do the 18 gauge feeders. It seems to me that a maximum run of 10 to 12 feet from the farthest power district back to the CP6 is not unduly long. So, I don't see the size or the length of the wiring as a problem.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Monday, November 27, 2017 5:36 PM

the bulbs are beginning to glow because there is a larger amount of current flowing than expected.    Too small wire gauge or too long wire will add resistance, reducing the amount of current causing the locomotives to slow but not additional current causing the bulbs to glow.

could there be a low level short in that district that is already drawing some current?   This can be checked with an ammeter when nothing else is drawing current (e.g. non-running locos with active sound decoders, track powered lamps, ...).

could it be that the locos are drawing more current because of a grade?

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    November 2013
  • 9 posts
Posted by JOHN MACLEOD on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:35 PM
My voltage when no loco on track is 10.4. This is constant over the whole layout. When I run one loco on the district that is in question volts read 9.8 not much of a draw or is it? 2 locos on same district volts go to 8.7 with some fluxuation up to 9. Both locos run slow till one leaves that district, then both go back to set speed. And of course with both loco in district cp6 light comes on. As I said before, all other districts are fine.
  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 2:59 PM

 That seems abnormally low - what sort of meter are you using? Normal HO track voltage is 14-15V. Systems with variable scale settings use 12-13V for N scale, and 18 or so for O scale.  Even a not-exactly-suitable for DCC meter shouldn't read that far off.

 The size of the bus and feeders seems fine - and not too long. However, in a given district, how many feeders do you have? ANd at the borders of each power disctrict, do you have gaps in BOTH rails?

                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:19 PM

what are the voltage readings with the one and both locos on one of the other districts that doesn't have the problem?

measuring the current with an ammeter would be more helpful.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • 6,099 posts
Posted by Phoebe Vet on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:23 PM

Check all the connections, too.  A loose connection or a cold solder joint can have significant impact.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 1,206 posts
Posted by mfm37 on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 5:16 PM

Your voltage is very low. Look at increasing wire size and/or adding feeders. Several years ago when I was running voltage drop tests for NTRAK, voltage would drop from 11.8 volts at the booster to below 9 volts after about 75 feet of 12 ga wire. That's a one way distance with a 3 amp load.

You should compare the readings to readings on the other districts. I would also try jumping the JP6 for that district to see if there is any improvement.

Martin Myers

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 5:29 PM

mfm37
when I was running voltage drop tests for NTRAK, voltage would drop from 11.8 volts at the booster to below 9 volts after about 75 feet of 12 ga wire

The OP says he is only going 10-13 feet though.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 5:40 PM

At this point, if it were me, I would flip the wiring between the problem district and another district to see if results improve or does the problem simply move to another power district connection on the CP6.

Once I did that, I would add at least one pair of feeders to the problem power district. The voltage drop seems indicative of too few feeders, a problem that I have experienced on my layout in the past.

The OP's observation about the voltage drop when the second loco entered the power district should have nothing to do with current draw unless he meant that he was measuring amps as well as volts. What he is describing is voltage drop due to a wiring issue.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 1,206 posts
Posted by mfm37 on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 8:58 PM

BigDaddy

 

 
mfm37
when I was running voltage drop tests for NTRAK, voltage would drop from 11.8 volts at the booster to below 9 volts after about 75 feet of 12 ga wire

 

The OP says he is only going 10-13 feet though.

 
 

That was my point. It took 75 feet of wire to drop the voltage below 9 volts.

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: Shenandoah Valley
  • 9,094 posts
Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, November 28, 2017 9:19 PM

I misunderstood, sorry.

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!