Want to DCC & Sound a DC Atlas Classic RS-1 Need Sound Decoder and Speaker recommendations please.

[rrinker]

 I was mostly replying to Tom. A 539T and 244 are definitely different - you can listen to the two on the ESU site.

 I actually need to use V4's in my RS3;s, the Select does nooot have the proper horn as one of the options, but ESU does have the one I need in their library. I made a V4 project that has the 244 prime mover and my required horn - the M3RT1.

                                         --Randy

 

[gdelmoro]

Thanks Randy

[rrinker]

 I doubt that anyone who didnt work on them every day could tell the difference between a 244-B, -C, or -D.

 I don't know if there was a change in noticeable sound as they were upgraded from air-cooled turbos to the water cooled ones (lengthwise stack vs crossways stack).

                                      --Randy

 

[gdelmoro]

Thanks Paul I’ll check it out.

[peahrens]

Gary,

Related to your interest in sound samples of the 539T and 244 engines (besides the LokSound samples you can listen to online).  I was looking for info on speakers (see below) on the LokSound Yahoo User Group and stumbled across some info you may want to check out.  Unfortunately, you can not see things there unless you join the group, but if you are getting into LokSounds that is a recommended place to check out.  If you get in, go to the FILES tab and find the file "Alco 244 vs. 539" by mikecafalone dated Apr 26, 2007.  He has 3 sound clips there.  I listened to one, it was very short.

Also in the FILES section, I highly recommend reading about speakers in 2 articles by Larry Hanlon ("mt19a"), where he tests and compares certain speakers, including related effects such as enclosure size, membrane in vs. out, etc.  I found these articles highly informative, not just on specific speaker choices, but also on the related variables.  If you find these of interest, search for the related threads (likely close to the dates of the posted files) where Larry and others comment on these areas of interest.  Look for these FILE items:

- Micro Speaker Measurements, July 26, 2016

- Front vs. Back Micro Speakers, July 28, 2017

It's unfortunate that I can't just post the related links as non-members of the group can not get in.  I do recommend this group for LokSound users as a source of interesting threads and a 2nd place to get questions answered.

  

[tstage]

gdelmoro

rrinker

 Put the right ones in. Since you have both types of locos, might as well use the correct sound in each one, then you get to hear both. And you won't have soome rivet counter coming over and wondering why you have a 539T in an RS-3.

                             --Randy

So I guess I misunderstood the earlier post that referenced both sounds, thinking I could choose whichever.  This makes it easier. 

So the 539T is an RS1? And the 244 is RS2 & 3 ?

Again, quoting Wiki, Gary:

• RS-1 - Alco 539T
• RS-2 - Alco 244-B, 244-C
• RS-3 - Alco 244-D

Not sure what sound difference there might be between -B, -C, and -D.  Loksound only lists the Alco 244 so I'm guessing the variations might all sound pretty much the same.  Randy???

Tom

[tstage]

Gary,

I used a 8Ω-1W TDS SuperSonic small (cube) speaker with a Loksound Select Micro that I installed in a brass H20-44 that might work for you.  The speaker measures 8 x 13 x 2.5mm in size.  Along with a 20 x 15 x 9.5mm enclosure, I purchased both from Tony's Train Exchange.  I was going to install two speakers in parallel.  However, the one speaker sounded so terrific that I didn't even both with the 2nd.

The speaker is installed into the enclosure with the terminals facing outward- i.e. the cone is inside the enclosure.  I used thin 3M foam tape square to mount the enclosure onto the underside of the shell.  Here's a picture of the install:

I might look spacious inside the shell...but it's deceiving.  You'll most likely need to install the speaker into the cab of your RS-1.  I prefer to do that rather than remove weight from the chassis.

Hope that helps...

Tom

[gdelmoro]

rrinker

 Put the right ones in. Since you have both types of locos, might as well use the correct sound in each one, then you get to hear both. And you won't have soome rivet counter coming over and wondering why you have a 539T in an RS-3.

                             --Randy

 

 

So I guess I misunderstood the earlier post that referenced both sounds, thinking I could choose whichever.  This makes it easier. 

So the 539T is an RS1? And the 244 is RS2 & 3 ?

[rrinker]

 Put the right ones in. Since you have both types of locos, might as well use the correct sound in each one, then you get to hear both. And you won't have soome rivet counter coming over and wondering why you have a 539T in an RS-3.

                             --Randy

 

[gdelmoro]

Ok here is the plan. I have 7 loco’s to do so the first 2 one will be LokSound and the other TCS. Rich gave me the links for the WOW Kits.

I cant decide which sound to have loaded on the Lok. I like them BOTH . Going to search for real loco videos of start-up and running RS1’s and 3’s. See what I find.

From what I can see online speakers are a pain to install with these models. The DiGi-Key 433-1130-ND looks like a good choice for the Lok. The TCS Kit comes with one that I assume they know will fit.

[rrinker]

 The big difference is in the keep alive system. The Loksound one is more than just large capacitors. It is a 3 wire system which disables the capacitors when programming. The typical 2 wire systems (you CAN use a TCS keep alive with a Loksound decoder) usually need to be installed with a connector or switch because the big caps will interfere with the program track. No, you will never get a full ESU setup for less than TCS, the ESU keep alives alone are $30-$50 depending on what size one you get.

                           --Randy

 

[hon30critter]

gdelmoro

Has anyone used both the TCS and LOK ?  Do you like one over the other? Why? Looks like they are both easy installs.

Until recently I swore by the Loksound Select decoders. They are fantastic IMHO.

However, now that TCS has come out with built in keep alive capacitors I definitely am going to give their decoders a try. Tony's Train Exchange's current price for a LokSound Select plus a Power Pack keep alive is $139.60 USD. Their price for a TCS drop in decoder with built in keep alives is $97.95! Duh, let's see which one will I choose? Those are both full retail prices so of course they can be found for less, but I somehow doubt that the LokSound setup will ever be cheaper than the TCS system.

LokSound would seem to have some catching up to do!

Dave

[tstage]

Rich,

IIRC, the Litchfield Station website is still set up for that.  I think they have a drop-down menu to streamline the process...unless I'm thinking of another website.

Tom

[richg1998]

tstage

Gary,

Whoever you order your Loksound Select decoder from make sure they install the correct sound file into it.  According to Wiki the RS-1 came with the Alco 539T primer mover (#73498); the RS-3 with the Alco 244-D (#73401).

Tom

 

Litchfield Station did that for me some years ago when I ordered LokSound v3.5 decoders. Great service. Bruce still ran the company then but still great service now.

Rich

[tstage]

Gary,

Whoever you order your Loksound Select decoder from make sure they install the correct sound file into it.  According to Wiki the RS-1 came with the Alco 539T primer mover (#73498); the RS-3 with the Alco 244-D (#73401).

Tom

[BigDaddy]

gdelmoro

Looking at the Lok decoder it says “MUST use LokProgrammer Version 4.4.21 or newer”. Does that mean I need pro purchase the LokProgrammer?

No but you do need to puchase a decoder that is programed for the engine you want.  Otherwise you will have a sound decoder with perhaps no sound or a generic sound.  That is obvious if you order from Tony's trains, it is in the fine print if you order from Litchfield Station.

If you standardize on Loksound decoders, the Lokprogrammer is a useful accessory.  The 4.4.21 is the latest software version of the program used with their programmer.

 

[gdelmoro]

Looking at the Lok decoder it says “MUST use LokProgrammer Version 4.4.21 or newer”. Does that mean I need pro purchase the LokProgrammer?

[peahrens]

gdelmoro

Can I replace the bulb with an LED? Does the decoder provide the needed resistance or do I need a resistor? Ohms?

LokSound Select instructions (see manual pg. 13-14) instruct to add a 470 - 2.2k ohm resistor for LEDs with the 6AUX or Micro Selects.  Most folks go with a 1k, and you can also adjust the brightness by CV tinkering.  Note the instruction to set a CV for LED installed to allow this other CV adjustment.  

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/

As noted above, the LokSound Select Direct has onboard 2.2k resistors for LEDs.   Note that optionally you can use bulbs, or add your own chosen resistor for your LED, by solder bridging two spots on the board to bypass the onboard resistor. If your bulbs are lower than 16v, they instruct to add a resistor.    

I usually replace bulbs with LEDs when converting a loco to DCC.  It takes the worry away from potential bulb replacement, plus often helps with creating room by reducing lightpipes.  I keep a supply of 5mm, 3mm and the smaller 0603 SMD LED (and a smaller version of those) on hand.  Don't hesitate to cut light pipes smaller or remove them and glue the LEDs to whatever you leave to the headlight / taillight.  It works fine and can improve space for speakers, etc.

BTW, if you go the LokSound route for the first time, for some CVs (such as some mentioned above) you can get into "indexed CVs" for CVs higher than (I think) 255.  It's not hard to get into, as the instruction manual is clear on those needing that, usually sound or lighting related.  It requires first setting another CV to 0, 1 or 2 before setting the one of interest.  That allows them to have thousands of available CVs. Many items such as master volume are straightforward, non-indexed.

[BigDaddy]

The Loksound Select Direct has a resistor circuit for LED's.  The Select and the Select Micro do not.  I put one of those tiny sugar cube speakers in the cab rather than mill or remove parts of the frame.

After you do it twice, soldering a resistor to an LED is easy.

 

[tstage]

Gary,

I have used both the TCS Wow! and Loksound Select decoders and both have excellent motor-control and sound.  I would say that I like the Loksound sound decoders only slightly more than TCS Wow! primarily because of familiarity.  Either choice will serve you well.

I know that the TCS provides both on-board incandesent and LED lighting pads on the Wow! decoders so you shouldn't need resistors - i.e. assuming that you use and install the proper voltage incandescent bulb.  I believe Loksound does, as well.  You should be able to verify that in the Loksound Select manual.  If it doesn't then use a 1K resistor where needed.

Tom

[gdelmoro]

THANKS to all for the great information. Has anyone used both the TCS and LOK ?  Do you like one over the other? Why? Looks like they are both easy installs.

Can I replace the bulb with an LED? Does the decoder provide the needed resistance or do I need a resistor? Ohms?

[richhotrain]

Gary, I have two of those Atlas RS-1 diesels, but no sound. I installed an NCE DA-SR decoder in each unit.

You will enjoy the same performance in DCC that you describe in DC. These diesels are great runners.

Rich

[rrinker]

Loksound Select Direct will clip right on top of the motor where the old plastic 'board' was. Truck pickups coonnect to the outer edges of the board, motor wires go tot he side. Other connections at each end are for LEDs to replace the single center light bulb.

 On previous ones, I cut down the factory plstic light tubes so there was a lense in the headlight and enough of the light tube to get to the first set of mounting pins to hold it in place, and I used heat shrink to stick an LED on each light pipe. 

 I've got a half dozen of these to convert - I have more RS-3's than any other loco.

                                   --Randy

 

[richg1998]

gdelmoro

Hi I have a total of about 7 DC Atlas classic RS-1, 2 & 3’s left from my DC Layout. They run great, slow & smooth, through unpowered frogs and never detail. Some are weathered.

As you probably already know they have an old style board that connects the bulb in the center to power.  The R & L truck leads and motor are also connected. The motor has a plastic case and 2 flat brass arms that connect to the + & - on the motor. There are also 2 tabs that held the board in place. The GOW Bulb lights bot the front and rear lights at the same tike through a clear plastic piece that picks up the light from the center bulb.

I removed the board and isolated the L & R truck pickups, removed the motor and pit Kapton tape underneath just to be sure there was no connection to the metal frame.

Can anyone recommend a Sound decoder and speaker for these locomotives?

 

RS-1.

http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Atlas/RS1%20WK/RS1%20WK.html

RS-3.

http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/Atlas/RS-3%20Sound/Atlas%20RS-3%20_WOW121-Diesel%20and%20AK-MB1.html

Rich

[peahrens]

Gary,

I converted an Atlas RS-1 last year.  My default decoder choice is the LokSound Select, either the 6Aux (1 amp) version or the Micro (3/4 amp) version if space is critical, in either case hard wiring (cutting off the 8-pin connector) as I like the space optimization that way.  For the RS-1, I used the 6AUX version.  For it, I used the LokSound Select Alco 539T sound file.  See it on the related webpage below.  You can compare the 539T sound file sample to that of the 244 prime mover (used in the RS2) by also looking at that file just for interest:

http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/2?page=6&count=10&order=date&type=diesel&cat=2

I happened to post 2 videos on the RS1 that may be of interest.  The first just shows off the completed project.  If you view it on YouTube, you can see the description paragraph there for info on the speakers (dual Knowles Grand 13x18mm) and the LED lighting details.  Sorry I don't think I have related interior photos.

This second video was focused on drive train quietness, in response I recall to someone's inquiry for these locos.  So the video has a portion running with sound off.  

If I were to compare with the LokSound Select, I would next look at TSU WowSound alternatives, though I have little insight there.  I just know that both brands tend to get good marks for motor control. But I have not looked into the Wow's prime mover offerings in terms of how close one can get to the prototype prime mover as well as recording quality for prime mover, horns, etc. (which may vary within a brand for specific recordings. of course).

I did somewhat similar conversions with two Kato RS2's (using the 244 prime mover sound file).  The key difference was a compromise on installing the dual 13x18mmspeakers.  In the RS2 case I used the curved roof as part of the enclosure, with rather limited "enclosure" depth.  For the RS1 I was able to make a larger 9mm deep enclosure for the dual speakers.  There are consistent reports that larger enclosures are important for these small speakers.  And the info I have read elsewhere steers me away from the typical oval speakers where the micros with a decent (similar or larger) size enclosure usually outperform the ovals. 

BTW, the $2 Knowles Grand speakers are discontinued, and seem no longer available at least at DigiKey.  For a higher roughly $4 price, basis a recommendation by a Mr. Hanlon at the Yahoo LokSound User Group, consider the CUI CDS-18138A from DigiKey.  Of course, there are others available.  It's easy to make enclosures of 0.040" styrene, but note it is very important to ensure the enclosure is sealed to preclude front to back distortion.  I glue things together with CA, then carefully add a bead of silicone, smoothed with my finger, on all cracks for certainty.  Then there is the issue of innies vs. outies regarding the membrane.  You will find conflicting info on that.

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/cui-inc/CDS-18138A/102-3541-ND/5355536

Hope this is helpful.

EDIT: I found a single photo that shows the speakers roughly placed at the eventual enclosure location, and before the decoder and LEDs installation.  It looks like I milled the frame below the enclosure a bit to maximize the enclosure depth attainable above the drive mechanism.

IMG_6217 by Paul Ahrens, on Flickr

 

[arbe1948]

I am quite a novice at sound installs.  I have however used ESU Loksound Select micro sound decoder on two installations, an Alco and a Baldwin.  With a TDS SuperSonic Mini sugarcube speaker and enclosure, i am very pleased with the results.

The Micro Select decoder is pretty small and can be programed for the ALCO 539T engine.  Tony's Train Exchange did mine.  I used one in an Atlas S-2.  I did an older Atlas RS-1 using an NCE DASR non-sound decoder with LED lighting.  The Lok decoder is smaller than the DASR so should fit nicely.

here is a kind of lame video I took of the S-2 before i fully installed the body and couplers to give an idea of the sound quality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eagN4OTHrw

 

 

 

[gdelmoro]

Hi I have a total of about 7 DC Atlas classic RS-1, 2 & 3’s left from my DC Layout. They run great, slow & smooth, through unpowered frogs and never detail. Some are weathered.

As you probably already know they have an old style board that connects the bulb in the center to power.  The R & L truck leads and motor are also connected. The motor has a plastic case and 2 flat brass arms that connect to the + & - on the motor. There are also 2 tabs that held the board in place. The GOW Bulb lights bot the front and rear lights at the same tike through a clear plastic piece that picks up the light from the center bulb.

I removed the board and isolated the L & R truck pickups, removed the motor and pit Kapton tape underneath just to be sure there was no connection to the metal frame.

Can anyone recommend a Sound decoder and speaker for these locomotives?