I bought my first DCC system when I was just starting to build a layout so I needed it to get things running quickly, but the need for multiple throttles and wireless was way down the road.
I chose NCE because of the low cost of the starter system, and the "nothing wasted" path to adding components to get to full wireless control.
Jim
I ditto NCE. My Digitrax Zephyr is now used to program locomotives.
Bear "It's all about having fun."
Stevert gdelmoro I have the wireless NCE PH-Pro system and like it very much. Maybe because I'm used to it now the other systems look confusing but I must say I have never tried them. Here is a system comparison https://tonystrains.com/comparison-dcc-systems/ The best advice so far in this thread is "Try them yourself". Wow, you mean Tony's (who at one time apparently had a manufacturing/marketing agreement with NCE) is still pushing that outdated old chart!!?? The one that talks about the DT100, which was discontinued in 2000, but doesn't bother to even mention the DT402 (now also retired) or the DT500? And that's missing the DCS240 comand station and the DCS210-based Evolution starter sets and the DB210/DB220 line of boosters? And the WiFi throttle ability (without JMRI) that the LNWI provides? Sorry, but IMHO that "comparison" is either absurdly out of date or intentionally misleading.
gdelmoro I have the wireless NCE PH-Pro system and like it very much. Maybe because I'm used to it now the other systems look confusing but I must say I have never tried them. Here is a system comparison https://tonystrains.com/comparison-dcc-systems/ The best advice so far in this thread is "Try them yourself".
I have the wireless NCE PH-Pro system and like it very much. Maybe because I'm used to it now the other systems look confusing but I must say I have never tried them.
Here is a system comparison https://tonystrains.com/comparison-dcc-systems/
The best advice so far in this thread is "Try them yourself".
Wow, you mean Tony's (who at one time apparently had a manufacturing/marketing agreement with NCE) is still pushing that outdated old chart!!??
The one that talks about the DT100, which was discontinued in 2000, but doesn't bother to even mention the DT402 (now also retired) or the DT500?
And that's missing the DCS240 comand station and the DCS210-based Evolution starter sets and the DB210/DB220 line of boosters?
And the WiFi throttle ability (without JMRI) that the LNWI provides?
Sorry, but IMHO that "comparison" is either absurdly out of date or intentionally misleading.
Sorry, just tried to help. I didn’t realize it was outdated.
Gary
I bought the NCE wireless system 11 years ago because it had the features I wanted in DCC - mainly wireless walk around. And I have been happy with it ever since. But then I don't use some features like consisting so I can't say how they work. Sure the throttle is big, but even my 6 year grandson can make it work.
My suggestion is decide what you want the system to do for you and then see which one does it best.
Paul
OK guys, back into your corners please. Getting vociferous doesn't answer the OP's question very well.
Bottom line is that NCE has won the vote. Again.
Personally, if I was choosing again, I'd give the EasyDCC system a good look, but I'm not about to scrap my NCE Power Cab.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Stevert ATLANTIC CENTRAL Stevert restorator It seems that the main reason people choose NCE over Digitrax is all in the throttles, even to the extent of passing on the loconet functionality. Is there a reason Digitrax (or a third party) does not offer a better designed throttle? From what I read they would win the DCC wars if only that. The problem is that everyone has their own idea of the "ideal" throttle. Personally, I think the "hammerhead" style is way too big for what it does. Even though I have somewhat large hands, I prefer the smaller Digitrax DTxxx throttles. Other folks have other preferences. The Digitrax throttle: Too many buttons <snip> Sheldon I have to laugh every time I hear that complaint about Digitrax throttles vs. NCE or whoever. Have you ever actually counted the number of buttons/knobs on a ProCab vs. a DTxxx? The DTxxx (which, BTW, will control two locos or consists simultaneously. Not by going back and forth through the recall stack, but simultaneously) actually has one LESS button/knob than the ProCab. Not a big difference, to be sure, but enough to blow that "Too many buttons" argument out of the water. Did you read what I wrote? The buttons are too close together, they are too small, etc. And again, I WOULD NOT PICK NCE EITHER.........CLEARLY YOU MISSED THAT FACT. This is my choice, only 14 buttons, less than half compaired to Digitrax: http://cvpusa.com/easydcc_wireless_throttle_t1300e.php AND, I have NO use for controlling two trains at the same time from one wireless throttle, just another feature that makes the Digitrax throttle cluttered and hard to use. AND, even though I don't use DCC at home, most of my modeler friends do, and I have dozens, if not hundreds, of hours on a Digitrax throttle......and I still don't like them. I'm 60 years old, I've been using Digitrax on other peoples layouts for a decade or more, no thank you, not at my house. Like a lot of people my age I need reading glasses, but otherwise have very good vision. I don't wear bifocals and don't need glasses to see the trains on the layout, so seeing/reading the small icons (I hate icons) is impossible without my glasses, which I am not wearing while running trains. I can operate my Aristo wireless throttles while holding it behind my back.........it only has 5 buttons which can be operated strickly by feel. Somebody should make a DCC throttle like that...... Sheldon
Stevert ATLANTIC CENTRAL Stevert restorator It seems that the main reason people choose NCE over Digitrax is all in the throttles, even to the extent of passing on the loconet functionality. Is there a reason Digitrax (or a third party) does not offer a better designed throttle? From what I read they would win the DCC wars if only that. The problem is that everyone has their own idea of the "ideal" throttle. Personally, I think the "hammerhead" style is way too big for what it does. Even though I have somewhat large hands, I prefer the smaller Digitrax DTxxx throttles. Other folks have other preferences. The Digitrax throttle: Too many buttons <snip> Sheldon I have to laugh every time I hear that complaint about Digitrax throttles vs. NCE or whoever. Have you ever actually counted the number of buttons/knobs on a ProCab vs. a DTxxx? The DTxxx (which, BTW, will control two locos or consists simultaneously. Not by going back and forth through the recall stack, but simultaneously) actually has one LESS button/knob than the ProCab. Not a big difference, to be sure, but enough to blow that "Too many buttons" argument out of the water.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Stevert restorator It seems that the main reason people choose NCE over Digitrax is all in the throttles, even to the extent of passing on the loconet functionality. Is there a reason Digitrax (or a third party) does not offer a better designed throttle? From what I read they would win the DCC wars if only that. The problem is that everyone has their own idea of the "ideal" throttle. Personally, I think the "hammerhead" style is way too big for what it does. Even though I have somewhat large hands, I prefer the smaller Digitrax DTxxx throttles. Other folks have other preferences. The Digitrax throttle: Too many buttons <snip> Sheldon
Stevert restorator It seems that the main reason people choose NCE over Digitrax is all in the throttles, even to the extent of passing on the loconet functionality. Is there a reason Digitrax (or a third party) does not offer a better designed throttle? From what I read they would win the DCC wars if only that. The problem is that everyone has their own idea of the "ideal" throttle. Personally, I think the "hammerhead" style is way too big for what it does. Even though I have somewhat large hands, I prefer the smaller Digitrax DTxxx throttles. Other folks have other preferences.
restorator It seems that the main reason people choose NCE over Digitrax is all in the throttles, even to the extent of passing on the loconet functionality. Is there a reason Digitrax (or a third party) does not offer a better designed throttle? From what I read they would win the DCC wars if only that.
It seems that the main reason people choose NCE over Digitrax is all in the throttles, even to the extent of passing on the loconet functionality. Is there a reason Digitrax (or a third party) does not offer a better designed throttle? From what I read they would win the DCC wars if only that.
The problem is that everyone has their own idea of the "ideal" throttle.
Personally, I think the "hammerhead" style is way too big for what it does. Even though I have somewhat large hands, I prefer the smaller Digitrax DTxxx throttles. Other folks have other preferences.
The Digitrax throttle:
Too many buttons
<snip>
Sheldon
I have to laugh every time I hear that complaint about Digitrax throttles vs. NCE or whoever.
Have you ever actually counted the number of buttons/knobs on a ProCab vs. a DTxxx?
The DTxxx (which, BTW, will control two locos or consists simultaneously. Not by going back and forth through the recall stack, but simultaneously) actually has one LESS button/knob than the ProCab.
Not a big difference, to be sure, but enough to blow that "Too many buttons" argument out of the water.
Did you read what I wrote? The buttons are too close together, they are too small, etc.
And again, I WOULD NOT PICK NCE EITHER.........CLEARLY YOU MISSED THAT FACT.
This is my choice, only 14 buttons, less than half compaired to Digitrax:
http://cvpusa.com/easydcc_wireless_throttle_t1300e.php
AND, I have NO use for controlling two trains at the same time from one wireless throttle, just another feature that makes the Digitrax throttle cluttered and hard to use.
AND, even though I don't use DCC at home, most of my modeler friends do, and I have dozens, if not hundreds, of hours on a Digitrax throttle......and I still don't like them.
I'm 60 years old, I've been using Digitrax on other peoples layouts for a decade or more, no thank you, not at my house.
Like a lot of people my age I need reading glasses, but otherwise have very good vision. I don't wear bifocals and don't need glasses to see the trains on the layout, so seeing/reading the small icons (I hate icons) is impossible without my glasses, which I am not wearing while running trains.
I can operate my Aristo wireless throttles while holding it behind my back.........it only has 5 buttons which can be operated strickly by feel.
Somebody should make a DCC throttle like that......
You don't need to shout.
Yes, I read what you wrote. And I replied to only one aspect of it, which is why I snipped the rest.
But nowhere in that reply did I say you would pick NCE. I just used their throttle as an example to illustrate my point that although folks want to rant about the number of buttons on a Digitrax throttle, it actually has fewer than the most-often-mentioned competition.
And as far as your 60 years: Congratulations, I wish you many more! But I'll see you those 60 and raise you another three, so I'm guessing my vision issues are similar to yours. I tried bifocals, even the rather expensive progressive ones. Can't stand 'em. They're sitting in a drawer.
I'm also a long-time DCC user. I cut my DCC teeth on the NCE system at the club I belonged to at the time, and I got a demonstration of the System One from Don Wangrow himself at an NMRA Division Meet.
But in spite of all that, I still picked Digitrax for my home layout roughly 15 years ago and I haven't for a second regretted that choice.
Now, as a reminder of what *I* previously wrote:
Stevert Other folks have other preferences.
Other folks have other preferences.
I've had my Lenz system for 10 or 12 years and it's still working well, but it is an old system and there have been few upgrades or additions to their line. My primary throttle has seen a lot of use, and probably needs to be refurbished.
I like the "Dispatcher" throttle. I've also got the "Engineer" throttle, and find it much less user friendly. On the Dispatcher throttle, I like the large pushbuttons as compared to the tiny buttons on most other throttles. I actually bought the Engineer throttle so I could personally compare that one with a large analog throttle knob, but I found that the Engineer throttle is far less capable for programming and selecting engines, so I would not buy one of those at all.
Lenz does not have a wireless throttle of their own. I've got a CVP add-on system. That works very well, also, but I haven't tried programming with it.
Any new user should try as many systems as possible and make sure he's comfortable with the throttle. That's going to be your primary interface with the system, so you want to be happy with it.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
John: I am curious about the final resolution of questions such as yours. Let us assume that at some point you stop reading the replies to your question and take a poll on the answers. X number of people say NCE, y say Digitrax, z say CVP. The "x"s win the poll. You buy it and don't like it. What then? The point is - it is your money - you should decide on how it is spent. I can't tell you that the things I like or don't like about my system are going to be positives or negatives for you. Test them all. Then tell us why you chose the one you did. Just my thoughts.
Old Fat Robert
rrinker See, once I select a loco, that's hoow I use my Digitrax throttle. Down at my side, thumb on the speed control (which is also the direction control when you push it). One handed, noot staring at the screen. If you are walking around with your train, why do you need a positive stop at the stop and max speeds? It's pretty obvious that you've stopped. But there's always the UT4, with a toggle switch for direction and a big potentiometer knob. No screen, and only 8 buttons. Personally I hate them and do not own any, from the moment I experienced the control you get with an encoder I gave up on anything with a limited movement potentiometer. Oh yes - if not doing sound, then you don't really need ANY of the buttons, or at least don't need to be searching them out. Speed and direction, all just one knob and without the gimmick of if you keep going past stop it starts going in reverse and vice-versa. I've seen that option even on potentiometer throttles which really boggles my mind - now you have less than half the range of motion representing speed from stop to full. That's like trying to run a sound loco on DC. --Randy
See, once I select a loco, that's hoow I use my Digitrax throttle. Down at my side, thumb on the speed control (which is also the direction control when you push it). One handed, noot staring at the screen. If you are walking around with your train, why do you need a positive stop at the stop and max speeds? It's pretty obvious that you've stopped.
But there's always the UT4, with a toggle switch for direction and a big potentiometer knob. No screen, and only 8 buttons. Personally I hate them and do not own any, from the moment I experienced the control you get with an encoder I gave up on anything with a limited movement potentiometer.
Oh yes - if not doing sound, then you don't really need ANY of the buttons, or at least don't need to be searching them out. Speed and direction, all just one knob and without the gimmick of if you keep going past stop it starts going in reverse and vice-versa. I've seen that option even on potentiometer throttles which really boggles my mind - now you have less than half the range of motion representing speed from stop to full. That's like trying to run a sound loco on DC.
--Randy
Randy, for the actual running the train part, I agree, even though I'm not fond of the encoder wheel. But for everything else, that throttle is a pain that has me reaching for my glasses......
I bought a UT4 so the grand kids could use it as it was cheaper than the full control throttles. I find I use it a lot for yard switching. I also do not care for sound so I do not use those functions a lot.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Stevert:
I think you miss the real meaning behind the comment that Digitrax has "too many buttons". The number of buttons isn't the real issue for me and many others. The criticism would be better stated as "there are too many buttons that look all the same..."
In addition to the multiple identical buttons, the graphics on the face of the throttle below the buttons are very poorly designed. When I pick up my Power Cab I can instantly see what each button does. When I pick up a Digitrax throttle at the club I find myself squinting at the button identification signs wondering "what the heck is that symbol?"
Yes, over time anyone could figure out what the symbols mean. The question is " How much time?" My NCE Power Cab took me literally milliseconds to figure out what each button did. I'm still not comfortable with the Digitrax throttles after several hours of use. I guess I'm just slow.
The plain, simple truth is that the NCE throttles are intuitive and the Digitrax throttles are not!
It would be great if someone could make a list of the pros and cons of both, then those of us that are less informed on the more intricate matters of DCC could check off what is important to us.
Someday I will become more educated in such things when I have the time, but for now it is word of mouth and a little reading that helps with the decision.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
StevertThe problem is that everyone has their own idea of the "ideal" throttle.
I agree.
I am really looking forward to getting my hands on one of these:
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/25866
I had started a thread some time ago — with the Microsoft Train Simulator "Rail ~ Driver" console in mind — asking for input on throttle (control stand) ideas.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/254524/2846858.aspx
I really didn't choose a DCC system— it chose me. A friend was leaving the hobby and had a Digitrax Super Chief that he was parting with at a very reasonable cost.
At the time I only had a Broadway Limited GG1 and NYC Hudson but they were some of the very first dual DC / DCC sound locomotives available.
I agree that there are some things that should be upgraded on some of the Digitrax throttles. They use an "off-the-shelf" housing and the LCD display is definitely in need of an upgrade.
Still, as previously mentioned, I'm used to it and I'm very comfortable with it.
When I have visitors or if I'm running several trains I'll use one of the Android Kindle tablets I have with Engine Driver loaded on it.
This allows me to instantly call up any locomotive from my JMRI roster and control everything with a finger tip or the stylus thingy.
All the active addresses are right on the screen and just a tap away. The functions are spelled out too, so I don't have to remember the function assignments, either.
Still, I'm pretty impressed with the architecture of the Digitrax Loconet. I recently upgraded the firmware on throttles and other devices and it was as simple as a few quick downloads and plugging the Loconet cable into the USB port through the PR3.
There's times when I simply want to switch a few cars or "hostle" a few locomotives around so I'll grab one of the simple UT throttles sometimes not even bothering with the battery.
I charge and swap the 9V batteries so often that it becomes a quick, reflexive exercise that takes all of about ten seconds... never needed an on-off switch so far.
Good Luck to all...
Regards, Ed
I was at a train show yesterday and for the first time ever I saw someone running a train with their cell phone, and then I noticed a couple more. I bought an NCE wireless many moons ago and have loved it. The design of the controller has me controlling most things without having to be constantly looking at it, much like learning to play a musical instrument when all of a sudden you are not looking at your fingers anymore.
I got a lot of opinions when looking for my first DCC system. I have two techies in the family, one of which designed and built the first nationwide cell network in the country. They looked at the systems and had some comments, most of which went straight over my head. In the end, I made a choice. Both had pro's and con's and if you pinned me down I would say it was the controller that made me decide.
I figured by the time I really got educated on the ins and outs of DCC, it would be time for an upgrade anyway.
Too many buttons, too close together, too small........my fat fingers and old eyes can't zero in on them....
Encoder wheel knobs, display too small to read without my glasses, uses funny little pictures that make no sense......
And best of all, no on/off switch?????????? Every other electrical gagget on the planet has an on/off switch.......
But what do I know, my trains still run on DC despite my extensive experiance with DCC......
And remember, if I did choose DCC, it would not be Digitrax or NCE......I would pick EasyDCC from CVP
I replaced a Digitrax system ( Chief?? ) with an NCE system. I wish I had heard of RailPro. You can find a lot of information on the RailPro Forum.
All new engines now get RailPro. RailPro works fine with my NCE system.
rrinker You mean maybe the Lenz representatives? Or maybe at different times they've been both. <snip> --Randy
You mean maybe the Lenz representatives? Or maybe at different times they've been both.
I was actually thinking of the rebadged NCE decoders they sold a few years back.
It completely slipped my mind that after Debbie Ames retired Tony's is now the Lenz agency here in the US.
There are other options, like smrtphone-based throttles using WiThorttle for iOS and Engine Driver for Android. These can work with any system via JMRI, Digitrax has a direct wifi interface unit that can plug in.
I still have an idea to make a Bluetooth add on that you can clip to your phoone to give a real knob for these applications. The touch screen is fine for activating functions, but the throttle needs a knob of some sorts. It shouldn't be too technically dificult to make such a thing, and if it's BT then it's universally compatible with pretty much any smartphone.
I used to sell DCC systems so have tried most of them. My choices for my own layout came down to NCE and Digitrax. I bought NCE because it was "cheaper". However, I am not too mobile so use an office chair or a wheelchair to get around even my small railroad. This was a problem with the NCE controller as I had this long lead dangling everywhere and getting caught up.
When Digitrax announced their Evolution system, I bought one and have been very happy ever since. I find the wireless handheld very good to use.I love the fact that I can control two locos easily. My main like, however is being able to change quickly to "switching" mode and change any one of my 17 switches just by keying in the number and selecting c or t (not 0 and 1). If I want to use a loco function, a couple of taps and I am back in loco mode. Much easier than the NCE setUP for controlling accessories.
Long Haired DavidA.K.A. David Penningtonmain man on the Sunset and North Eastern R.R.http://www.gmrblog.co.ukfrom the UK
With a career of working on user interfaces, a couple of weeks with Digitrax had me going back to DC. It's that bad.
The guys from the NC Sippin and Switchin group suggested I try NCE. I did and there's no going back.
See if you can find some locals to let you try the different systems. I know a lot of people that are happy with Digitrax, but it's not for me.
Don
I use the Lenz DCC system. I tried it, I liked it and I stuck by it.
You mean maybe the Lenz representatives? Or maybe at different times they've been both. Anyway, even ignoring the outdated part of that chart, there are errors for more than just the Digitrax items. Also items with no context - like the Recall Stack. Not all DCC systems work the same way - there IS a selectable recall stack with Digitrax however it does not have the same meaning as the recall stack in NCE.