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"A MYSTERIOUS DCC PROBLEM "

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  • Member since
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  • From: west of Portland Oreg.( the city of Roses
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Posted by TrainsRMe1 on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 11:43 AM

I had a busy week, from work to getting the family together during the eclipse, and about the eclipse, all I have to say is ......Wow!  But now anyway, I have a strong bus to work for me !!

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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 10:50 AM

Thanks for getting back to us. 

Some people actually use bare wire for their bus.  It doesn't sound like something that I should do.  Murphy never sleeps.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by TrainsRMe1 on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:01 PM

You have to have a bullet proof bus wire system in order to have a great operating railroad, in which I didn't,  the short was from some old tattered, poorly souderd wire, the bare wire (that's right) bare wire caused the short!!  So to find the problem, the best way was to do the process of elimination, and it worked!!

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, August 21, 2017 7:56 PM

 Well, unless the old bus was something like telephone wire and the new bus is more like #14, there must have been a flipped connection in there somewhere.

                                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, August 21, 2017 5:45 PM

TrainsRMe1  Time to pay it forward.  I don't mean that in a condescending sense, but many of us, perhaps nearly all of us come to the forum to learn.

You certainly don't owe any of us anything, maybe Rich, but certainly not me.  Help the next guy who comes along and has reversed the bus to get his layout to run.  We can't argue with a "better bus" but what does that mean and what was the root of your problem?

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, August 21, 2017 4:05 PM

TrainsRMe1

I'm happy to  announce that my problem has been solved, I just ran a better bus wire through out the whole layout, my reversal loop with the help from Rich, will operate better also, thanks again Rich!Big Smile

 

Hmmm, if you solved your problem by replacing the bus wires, my guess is that a portion of the original bus wires was reversed. Did you replace the sub-bus for the reverse loop and make that part of a single bus?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by TrainsRMe1 on Monday, August 21, 2017 3:10 PM

I'm happy to  announce that my problem has been solved, I just ran a better bus wire through out the whole layout, my reversal loop with the help from Rich, will operate better also, thanks again Rich!Big Smile

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Posted by zstripe on Friday, August 18, 2017 3:07 PM

TrainsRMe1

I'm using the same bus, I also have insulated rail joiners at the entry of the reversal loop along with he Digitrax AR1.

 

Do You have insulated rail joiners at the exit of reversal loop also? They are needed to completely isolate the reversing loop........

Good Luck! Big Smile

Frank

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, August 17, 2017 7:14 PM

wgc53217
Is there any equipment on the track?

How would that account for the OP's need to "reverse the bus wires" ?  

No one has shed any clarity on the track plan that was posted so it's not just my old eyes.  All we can say is mysterious is an appropriate title for the thread.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by wgc53217 on Thursday, August 17, 2017 5:58 PM

Is there any equipment on the track?  I had a miserable time a few years ago trying to find a wiring problem before I realized an old frt car with metal wheels had bad insulation on one wheel.

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 4:37 AM

TrainsRMe1

I'm using the same bus, I also have insulated rail joiners at the entry of the reversal loop along with he Digitrax AR1.

 

 I sent you an email with a few questions about your track diagram.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by TrainsRMe1 on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:27 PM

I'm using the same bus, I also have insulated rail joiners at the entry of the reversal loop along with he Digitrax AR1.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 4:34 PM

BigDaddy
 
TrainsRMe1
Now I have noticed there are two types of gauge wire for my bus, hmmm I wonder if that could be the problem.???? 

That would not be the cause of a short.  

I agree. Disregarding for a moment shorts caused by derailments, a short is going to be caused by mismatched polarities that go unresolved, usually caused by wiring faults or turnouts or reversing sections.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 3:05 PM

TrainsRMe1
Now I have noticed there are two types of gauge wire for my bus, hmmm I wonder if that could be the problem.????

That would not be the cause of a short. 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 2:40 PM

TrainsRMe1

I'm running a track to a lower level staging that is a reversal loop, I 'm using a Digitrax AR1 for the loop

As I re-read this portion of the OP's reply, apparently there is a reverse loop in the lower level staging. The wiring, the gaps, the AR1, any of which could be the problem. We need to know more about this portion of the layout.

TrainsRMe1, are you using a single pair of bus wires? Or do you have one or more sub-buses?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 2:34 PM

Dunno, it seems that there is too much going on here to analyze this issue properly.

Is there a problem with the bus wires? Is there a problem with the feeders.  Is there a reversing section somewhere on the layout? Is there a necessary gap missing? Could it be a turnout? I just think there is too much going on .....in this thread.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by floridaflyer on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 11:08 AM

You say the layout runs fine when the bus wires are reversed. Could it be that the reverse section is not isolated and when you reverse the buss you are in phase with the reverse section, when you return to black on black and red on red a short occurs, as you may not be in phase with the reverse section. This is just a guess on my part but it is odd that a short does not exist regardless of which way you have the buss wires.

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Posted by TrainsRMe1 on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:31 AM

I just want it to run flawlessly, there is a crossover in Cushman, far right on the 2nd peninsula, as well as at the Umpqua River, along the wall on the far left, continuing from there coming through the town of Mapleton, to the 1st peninsula I have a Peco turnout handling my dbl main line to single track, that turnout is operated by a Tortoise, from there the single track runs through 3 tunnels, across McKenzie river, from there, I'm running a track to a lower level staging that is a reversal loop, I 'm using a Digitrax AR1 for the loop, meanwhile the mainline on the upper level runs to Eugene yard, engine shop to the left of the mainline, the South end of the yard, the mainline runs off into a hidden track that continues behind the scenery to the other side of the layout to Coos Bay Oregon. Now I  have noticed  there are two types of gauge wire for my bus, hmmm I  wonder if that could be the problem.???? 

Thanks Guys for the help, and thank you Rich for posting this for me.

 

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:29 AM

I saved the track plan and then blew it up.  The resolution does not improve.  lt says:

>Turnouts Atlas (manual)

The layout runs OK it could run better.  My DCC system is Digitrax Zepher  The Red Line is A rail the Black is B rail

There is a Peco turnout below the engine shop top right.

My eyes aren't good enough to follow the individual A & B rails to see where his bus "changes"  In some areas I can't say for sure how many tracks there are. 

There is either a crossing or a cross over in the peninsula that hangs down  at the right third of the diagram.  It is just at the end of the straight section.  I see other lines that could be cross overs above Coos Bay.

There are 3 paths to staging yards.  Are they yards or are they  loops?   Dunno. 

OP Aside from the shorting issue, what do you mean you wish it would run better?

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 7:18 AM

 If there are no return loops, then a short at a crossover has to be either an Electrofrog type turnout without proper gaps, or the two tracks being connected are not wired the same - ie if it is like this ||X|| then the bus should be ABXAB. If it's ABXBA then there will be a short even with Atlas turnouts.

EDIT: BTW, if it shorts on DCC, it would short on DC. It's not really a DCC problem, it's a track wiring problem.

 

                           --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 6:06 AM

Water Level Route

Is the "Klamath Falls Staging" connected to the "Hidden Stage Tracks", specifically where entered at the lower right hand corner of the track plan?

 

No idea, that is all that the OP mailed me, but it is a good question.

The hidden staging could form a reverse loop, I suppose. On the posted track plan, I see no reverse loops or reversing sections.

Still wonder about the types of turnouts being used. Peco Electrofrogs?

New layout or modification to up and running layout? Did it all work good before?  Did it ever work well? Type of DCC system? 

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Water Level Route on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:54 AM

Is the "Klamath Falls Staging" connected to the "Hidden Stage Tracks", specifically where entered at the lower right hand corner of the track plan?

Mike

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 5:38 AM

TrainsRMe1

Well, I wish I could post a trackplan, but I always have a problem in doing so,

Here is the track plan.

Rich

trainsrme.jpg

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 13, 2017 10:19 AM

ROBERT PETRICK
 
BigDaddy

Geographically wouldn't the problem be close to this point?  We haven't eliminated the frog issue either.  What turnouts are you using? 

Yes, this could be the issue. Some turnouts (Peco Electrofrog) must be gapped on the downstream rails, even though no reversing section is involved.

Also Henry, I agree with your earlier comment about accurate, consistent track plans. Difficult enough to describe things in a forum even with perfect illustrations. Nearly impossible when the pictures don't match the words.

Robert  

Yeah, there's a lot we don't know here. Type of turnout? Overall track plan? New layout or modification to up and running layout? Did it all work good before?  Did it ever work well? Type of DCC system? Reversing sections?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, August 13, 2017 10:12 AM

BigDaddy

Geographically wouldn't the problem be close to this point?  We haven't eliminated the frog issue either.  What turnouts are you using?

Yes, this could be the issue. Some turnouts (Peco Electrofrog) must be gapped on the downstream rails, even though no reversing section is involved.

Also Henry, I agree with your earlier comment about accurate, consistent track plans. Difficult enough to describe things in a forum even with perfect illustrations. Nearly impossible when the pictures don't match the words.

Robert 

LINK to SNSR Blog


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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 13, 2017 9:52 AM

TrainsRMe1

Sure, that would be great,  

 

Done.  Check your PM.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by BigDaddy on Sunday, August 13, 2017 8:39 AM

TrainsRMe1
I had to cross my bus wires (black to red, red to black

Geographically wouldn't the problem be close to this point?  We haven't eliminated the frog issue either.  What turnouts are you using?

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by floridaflyer on Sunday, August 13, 2017 8:35 AM

BigDaddy

 

 
gdelmoro
Can you post a trak plan please?

 

Oh my! 

I used to think this was a good suggestion until every new pic of the track plan was a different track plan or it would change the orientation 180 degrees and then 90 degrees and upside down and backwards.   Be gentle with us. Smile

It still seems like a good idea to label tracks or turnouts so we don't have to refer to the turnout 1/3 of the way down on the left half of the pic.

 

 Excellent point Henry
 
 
doug

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Posted by TrainsRMe1 on Sunday, August 13, 2017 8:25 AM

Sure, that would be great,  

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