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Programming HO GMD-1 ditch lights

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  • Member since
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  • From: Germany
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Programming HO GMD-1 ditch lights
Posted by faraway on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 10:11 AM

I got my DC HO GMD-1 #1444 with four ditch lights today. I ordered the DC version to install a 21pin Tsunami2 sound decoder. That went fine. Rapido installed already the speaker in the DC version! A very nice touch!.

Programming of the Tsunami 2 went fine with Decoder Pro. The only problem are the ditch lights. I can not find any way to get them switched on. FX3 and FX4 are the marker lights. FX5 and FX6 are the number boards.

Where are the ditch lights wired to with the default ESU Loksound 4.0 21 pin sound decoder?

Thanks in advance.

ps. Be extreme carefully opening the shell. The ditch light cables are no longer than an inch.

Reinhard

  • Member since
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  • From: City of Québec,Canada
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Posted by Jacktal on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 3:34 PM

I checked Rapido's website for the specific loco and they haven't provided any function for ditchlights.F9 controls the number boards while F10 handle the class lights and there's no provision for ditchlights at all.If such is true,it is likely that the DL aren't wired to the 21 pin connector at all.

Earlier Tsunami decoders used F5 & F6 for alternating blink ditchlights and had no spare F's for number boards and markers.

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 3:58 PM

Jacktal
F9 controls the number boards while F10 handle the class lights and there's no provision for ditchlights at all.If such is true,it is likely that the DL aren't wired to the 21 pin connector at all.

I agree the Rapido site doesn't mention much about ditch lights, but it does say this:The 1400s operate long-hood forward, and our model features operating ditch lights on the long hood end.That statement is on this page http://rapidotrains.com/ho-gmd-1-with-stripes/

The OP said the ditch light cables limit how far the shell can be lifted so they must go somewhere.  The OP is in Germany so it maybe he could Skype to Rapido if no one here knows how it can be done.  It may be described in the Tsunami manual, but I get lost when they start adding this number plus that number to a CV

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

By the Chesapeake Bay

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Posted by faraway on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 4:34 PM
I have asked Soundtraxx and Rapido for advise. It may take some time to any answers if at all. I hoped some of you with the ditch light GMD-1 and the ESU programmer could simple lookup what output line is triggered by F6. That would be the key information I need to program my Tsunami.

Reinhard

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 5:29 PM

We are 6 hours behind you.  I know there are Rapido fans and CN fans, once dinner is finished and they turn on their computers, you may have an answer by your sunrise.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

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Posted by Mark R. on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 7:45 PM

Could be you just plain don't have enough function outputs. Some OEM Loksound decoders use 8, up to 12 outputs. I believe your Tsunami only has six ? You may have to pick and choose which functons you want to use with the limited functionality.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by Jacktal on Tuesday, August 01, 2017 9:52 PM

The 21 pin connector points are numbered and positioned like this...

One row is 22 through 12

the other   1 through 11   1 matches 22 and 11 matches 12.Wether it's installed with the large numbers on top or under,I don't know.

Now this...first 11 is never used.

then   4=FX6   7=F0R (Yellow)   8=F0F(White)   9=Speaker   10=Speaker

13=FX5   14=FX4   15=FX3   16=Common + (Blue)   18=Motor 2 (Grey)

19=Motor 1 (Orange)   21=Track L (Black)   22=Track R (Red)

I think you'll have to make choices here as I don't think Tsunami can support all these lights independently,you'll have link some together.The light wiring was designed for a specific ESU decoder.

       

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Posted by faraway on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 2:18 AM

Thanks for the feedback. In fact Rapido uses none standard hardware to run the ditch lights. I got an ESU select from an Intermountain GP10 and tried all outputs available. AUX 5 and AUX 6 are connected to the ditch lights.

Those outputs are not standard and not documented in the ESU Loksound V4 guide. The 21 pin interface does not show Aux 5 and Aux 6.

Bad news for me. If I want ditch lights with the GMD-1 I have to accept the ESU specific humming sound at low speed....

 

Reinhard

  • Member since
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  • From: City of Québec,Canada
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Posted by Jacktal on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 4:05 AM

What about a second low cost silent decoder to handle the extra lights?That can be done.

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Posted by faraway on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 4:56 AM

There is very little space in the GMD-1 and the cabels are very short.

 

But I found some more information about Aux 5 and 6 in the German ESU forum. They are very new and you need a decoder from the newest series. Just any LS 4.0 with the newest firmware will not do it. The Product ID must 86 or better.

I put the GMD-1 in the Canada box in the cabinet and I am done with it :-)

Reinhard

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  • From: Germany
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Posted by faraway on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 12:11 PM

I could not rest until the basic problem of an ESU dominated GMD-1 is solved.

 

Step 1

Strip the drive down, put a Tsunami 2 EMD PNP with double side sticky tape on the motor aligned to the end of the rear flywheel and solder the rail and motor wires in place. This vehicle should run perfectly.

 

 

Step 2

Rewire the ditch lights. + and - minus are printed on the small PCB

 

 

Step 3

Understand the front and rear light units. From left to right: Number board, Marker lights, Head light and right side is common Plus

 

 

Step 4

Rewire the light units. I wired front light and number boards together. Not fully correct but on a small switching layout a simple solution. The marker lights are not used.

 

 

Step 5

Assemble the light units with a drop of CA glue in the area of the former screws and isolate the bottom side

 

 

Step 6

Mount the light units with capton tape. It looks awfully but it works great. It is my preferred method to mount light things in the shell.

 

 

Step 7

Solder the wires to the Tsunami but do not forget to protect all four wires (front, rear and two ditch lights) with 1k5 resistors! I use FX3 and 4 for the front and rear ditch lights. May be I will rewire it to use FX 3 and 4 for the front and FX 5 and 6 for the rear ditch lights. Anyhow I wanted to keep the first test simple. The wires should shortened to when you know everything works.

 

 

Step 8

Put on "ESU-free GMD-1" on the rails. Absolut no humming at lowest speed  :D 

 

 

update:

The ditch lights are rewired to be individual controlled by X3, 4, 5 and 6. That permits alternate ditch lights and grade cross logic (solid on of F key, alternate for n seconds after horn is operated). Just two more 1k5 resistors and two more wires.

Reinhard

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 12:54 PM

 Yeah but horrible horns Big Smile

             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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Posted by faraway on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 1:25 PM

What horn should I select to be as close as possible with a Tsunami 2 PNP EMD decoder?

ps. I choose the EMD 645 motor. Rapido writes that this rebuild got an EMD 645 motor.

Rapido "The 1400s and 1600s received upgraded power assemblies, effectively creating a 645C prime mover rather than its original 567C"

Reinhard

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 4:39 PM

 Might say on the Rapido site what horn type these locos used. They tend to share what information they dug up when researching the prototype.

                     --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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Posted by BigDaddy on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 7:53 PM

Faraway  Glad you just didn't park the loco forever.  Do you find all loksound decoders hum?

rrinker
Might say on the Rapido site what horn type these locos used.

For those that don't know, from their manual re the loksound:

There are numerous extra horn recordings included with your GMD-1, and you can change them around by changing the value of CV 48. Though why you’d want to change the horn from the GORGEOUS one that we recorded and is included from the factory is beyond us.
CV48-0 Nathan K5LA
CV48-1 Nathan K3L ( Default Horn - Rapido Recording)
CV48-2 Nathan M5
CV48-3 Nathan P3CV48-4 Nathan P5A
CV48-5 Nathan K3L (ESU Recording)
CV48-6 Leslie RS3L
CV48-7 Leslie S3L
CV48-8 Leslie S5T
CV48-9 Nathan M3
CV48-10 Hancock Air Whistle (you can blame Dan for this….)
CV48-11 Leslie RS3K
CV48-12 Leslie Supertfon
CV48-13 Nathan M3H
CV48-14 Nathan K5H
CV48-15 ANOTHER Leslie 3 Chime

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, August 02, 2017 9:42 PM

The rebuilds got a 645 power assembly. The block is still the 567, but the power assemblies are 645 series. This resulted in a unique sounding engine (which both Rapido and Loksound have) sounding neither like a true 567 or 645.

That being said, unless you've been intimate with that engine for a good deal of time, chances are you won't know for 100% certainty if what you have loaded in your Tsunami is right or wrong (it is wrong Smile, Wink & Grin ) .... as long as YOU like it.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by faraway on Thursday, August 03, 2017 2:11 AM

Henry, yes all ESU dewcoders (Losound nd Lokpilot) have that humming. I negotiated it several years ago with their very friendly design department but they choose not to chenge it. Most people do not complain and the reason must be somewhere very deep in the hardware design. I avoid ESU since then. K3L is set should be best I can do with a Tsunami.

Mark, the 567 sound to me like an older traktor when ideling (tok, tok, tok...) and the 645 more like a large street truck (Mack, Petersbilt ...). What is closer to the prototype?

Listening to YouTube is the 645 the better choice.

 

Reinhard

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  • From: Ontario Canada
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Posted by Mark R. on Thursday, August 03, 2017 7:24 AM

If choosing between the two, the 645 would be the better choice as the 567 is very distinctive as a straight 567. The correct sound is actually an interesting mix of the two that sounds like nothing else.

As for the motor hum, that is caused by the frequency Loksound utilizes in thier BEMF. The tighter the tolerances are within the motor, the less apparent the buzz is. My entire roster is powered by Atlas / Kato motors which produced absolutely zero hum / buzz. Some older Bowser / Stewart motors and also Athearn are terrible. You can also completely eliminate the buzz by just turning the BEMF feature off and re-adjusting the starting voltage.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

  • Member since
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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, August 03, 2017 7:57 AM

 That explains why I don't hear any buzz in mine - it so happens that EVERY loco I have a Loksound in at the moment has a Canon motor - PCM used them in their steam locos, and Stewart used them in their Baldwin switchers. Wait, I do have one Stewart F unit with a Loksound - that's one of the ones with a Buhler motor though.

                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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