QSI decoders harder to program?

[gdelmoro]

Hi,

I got my first Proto 2000 with a Quantum decoder and I'm beginning a learning curve regarding programming.

With my NEC system programming a BLI loco address was simply four controller clicks - Program-onMain-Address-Long and enter the address.

Tried that with the QSI and the voice said "CV18 = 7011" but the loco did not respond.  Turns out you need to program 2 separate CV's (17 & 18) to get the address entered.

The manual says "Procedure for entering long address in CV 56.129. What the hack is that? Then it says, determine the value of CV17 and CV18 from the ID Table.  That table says CV17=219 (Dec) or DB (Hex) or 11011011 (Binary) Clear as mud what I enter but I think I'll try the (Dec) number. CV18=99. So I ASSUME.... If I enter CV17=219 and CV18=99 then the loco address becomes 7011.  WOW

I noticed that these decimal CV's appear througout the manual. Fore example to disable the automatic Doppler Horn you do it in CV51.2. What are these decimal CV's?

[selector]

It's explained in the manual.  Go to QSI's site and download the manual for the QSI version you have.  QSI uses a register system where, if you want to reduce volume of one sound, you must first enter the enabling register, and then go to another CV and enter the value you want.  It sounds horribly complicated, but all it entails is a little understanding, method, and patience.  Usually the smaller manual supplied with the loco suffices to get you to what you wish to accomplish.

[maxman]

gdelmoro

With my NEC system programming a BLI loco address was simply four controller clicks - Program-onMain-Address-Long and enter the address. Tried that with the QSI and the voice said "CV18 = 7011" but the loco did not respond. Turns out you need to program 2 separate CV's (17 & 18) to get the address entered.

I would suggest that you set youself up with a seperate programming track that you can isolate from the main part of your railroad with a DPDT toggle switch.  Set the loco on the program track, select "use programming track" on the PowerCab, and follow the set long address that way.  Then you don't have to fool with all the CV 17 and 18 and whatever other CV that wants to be adjusted nonsence.....the PowerCab will do that all for you.

[richhotrain]

If I recall correctly, Gary has a 5 amp PH-Pro and a separate programming track.

Gary, are you unable to program the QSI on your Programming Track. If not, you will need to add a Program Track booster so that the system can read sound decoders on the Programming Track.

Rich

[gdelmoro]

yes NEC PH pro 5amp.

Haven't tried the program track.  I was able to program volume on the main and I guess I can do the address there too if i follow that cv17 & 18 procedure.

Do you think the procedure is different on the program track?

I'm trying to understand those decimal CV's they have.

Do I need to read the decoder?

[gdelmoro]

Yes I have an isolated program track. so you think if I put it on there I can follow the regular procedure, I'll give that a go.

[gdelmoro]

If I need a booster for teh program track how is the 

DCC Specialties - PowerPax

[Stevert]

If you think QSI is bad, wait until you get an ESU sound decoder.  They have potentially thousands of possible indexed CV's.

But there's an easy solution:  Get JMRI.   http://jmri.org/

The JMRI developers have put a lot of time and effort into converting those indexed CV's into plain-language selections you can click on a computer screen.  I can't remember the last time I've actually had to look up a CV to set up a decoder the way I want. 

[richhotrain]

gdelmoro

If I need a booster for teh program track how is the 

DCC Specialties - PowerPax

 

I had problems with that brand and returned it. I use this one and it works flawlessly...........on all sound decoders.

http://www.soundtraxx.com/access/ptb100.php

Unfortunately, the Power Pro Programming Track has not been updated to program sound decoders without the need for a booster.

Rich

[tstage]

Gary,

It's usually best to use programming track mode to initially program your locomotives rather than POM (program on the main) - i.e. just in case the decoder is inadvertantly wired incorrectly.  (Not likely with a pre-installed sound decoder but a wise safe-guard, nonetheless.)  I also use the programming mode menu with the Power Cab/PH Pro throttle to set up the short address/long address rather than messing with CVs17 & 18 individually.

Tom

[richhotrain]

gdelmoro

Hi,

I got my first Proto 2000 with a Quantum decoder and I'm beginning a learning curve regarding programming.

With my NEC system programming a BLI loco address was simply four controller clicks - Program-onMain-Address-Long and enter the address.

Tried that with the QSI and the voice said "CV18 = 7011" but the loco did not respond.  Turns out you need to program 2 separate CV's (17 & 18) to get the address entered.

The manual says "Procedure for entering long address in CV 56.129. What the hack is that? Then it says, determine the value of CV17 and CV18 from the ID Table.  That table says CV17=219 (Dec) or DB (Hex) or 11011011 (Binary) Clear as mud what I enter but I think I'll try the (Dec) number. CV18=99. So I ASSUME.... If I enter CV17=219 and CV18=99 then the loco address becomes 7011.  WOW

I noticed that these decimal CV's appear througout the manual. Fore example to disable the automatic Doppler Horn you do it in CV51.2. What are these decimal CV's?

 

Those are bits in a byte. Bet you're glad you asked.

There are 8 bits in a byte. Each bit has a unique value.

For example, bit 0 = 1, bit 1 =2, bit 2 = 4.............bit 7 = 128.

So, CV56.129 means that the value of CV56 is 129, determined by the decoder sensing that bits 0 and 7 are turned on.

Got that?

LOL, that's why you want to use the Programming Track for tasks like this.

Rich

[maxman]

gdelmoro

yes NEC PH pro 5amp.

Haven't tried the program track.  I was able to program volume on the main and I guess I can do the address there too if i follow that cv17 & 18 procedure.

Do you think the procedure is different on the program track?

I'm trying to understand those decimal CV's they have.

Do I need to read the decoder?

 

Sorry, I thought that you had a PowerCab.  But I would still try to use the programming track.  But just for the addresses.  You can set volumes and such on the main.  I also believe that you should be able to set the addresses without getting any feedback.  I think the additional power you get from the auxiliary boosters helps with the feedback portion.  If I remember correctly when you wish to program the addresses the command station will attempt to read the address CVs.  If there is not enough "power", you will get a "cannot read CV" message.  When you get that just proceed to the next step and enter the address you want.  Then move the loco to the main and see if the decoder accepted the address.

I don't think you have anything to lose trying this.  Let us know if it works for you.

Edit:  No, if this works you don't have to read the decoder.  Just don't get carried away and try to change a bunch of different things.  And no, you won't have to deal with a bunch of decimals.

[maxman]

richhotrain

Unfortunately, the Power Pro Programming Track has not been updated to program sound decoders without the need for a booster.

I suspect that if they did come up with a mod or add on to do this, it would still be easier/less expensive to purchase a PowerCab.  You would end up with all the capability, plus an extra cab.  I don't know what the currently available power boosters cost, but Streamlined Backshop is having a summer sale on the PowerCabs right now for $137 plus shipping.

[Stevert]

richhotrain

 

 

gdelmoro

Hi,

I got my first Proto 2000 with a Quantum decoder and I'm beginning a learning curve regarding programming.

With my NEC system programming a BLI loco address was simply four controller clicks - Program-onMain-Address-Long and enter the address.

Tried that with the QSI and the voice said "CV18 = 7011" but the loco did not respond.  Turns out you need to program 2 separate CV's (17 & 18) to get the address entered.

The manual says "Procedure for entering long address in CV 56.129. What the hack is that? Then it says, determine the value of CV17 and CV18 from the ID Table.  That table says CV17=219 (Dec) or DB (Hex) or 11011011 (Binary) Clear as mud what I enter but I think I'll try the (Dec) number. CV18=99. So I ASSUME.... If I enter CV17=219 and CV18=99 then the loco address becomes 7011.  WOW

I noticed that these decimal CV's appear througout the manual. Fore example to disable the automatic Doppler Horn you do it in CV51.2. What are these decimal CV's?

 

 

 

 

Those are bits in a byte. Bet you're glad you asked.

 

There are 8 bits in a byte. Each bit has a unique value.

For example, bit 0 = 1, bit 1 =2, bit 2 = 4.............bit 7 = 128.

So, CV56.129 means that the value of CV56 is 129, determined by the decoder sensing that bits 0 and 7 are turned on.

Got that?

LOL, that's why you want to use the Programming Track for tasks like this.

Rich

 

 

Actually, that's not quite correct for Indexed CV's.

Indexed CV's (denoted by CVxxx.yyy or CVxxx.yyy.zzz) are used by decoder manufacturers to (usually) group similar functions or to add additional functionality not accounted for in the "standard" NMRA-defined CV's.  (See my reference to ESU decoders above.)

The format is "Master CV-dot-primary index-dot-secondary index".  Values entered into the Primary and Secondary Indexes determine the function to be set in the Master CV.

So you'd write two or three values to set an indexed CV:  First to the secondary index (if used) and then to the primary index.  That tells the decoder which Master CV value you want to update.  Then you write the value you want to the master CV. 

So not the same as different bits within a single CV.

(And another plug for JMRI.  When you tick a check box or adjust a slider on the plain-language panel on your computer screen, JMRI figures all that out and sends the commands as necessary to set that master CV to the value it needs to be set at for the results you want.)

EDIT:  Slight re-wording for clarity.

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

WORD OF WARNING:

If you use "Programming Track" programming, it will NOT work if "Voice Response to CV Changes" is activated.

Guess how I know THAT.

 

[gdelmoro]

Stevert

If you think QSI is bad, wait until you get an ESU sound decoder.  They have potentially thousands of possible indexed CV's.

But there's an easy solution:  Get JMRI.   http://jmri.org/

The JMRI developers have put a lot of time and effort into converting those indexed CV's into plain-language selections you can click on a computer screen.  I can't remember the last time I've actually had to look up a CV to set up a decoder the way I want. 

 

Does JMRI work on an ipad or do I need a PC?

[gdelmoro]

richhotrain

 

 

gdelmoro

If I need a booster for teh program track how is the 

DCC Specialties - PowerPax

 

 

 

 

I had problems with that brand and returned it. I use this one and it works flawlessly...........on all sound decoders.

 

http://www.soundtraxx.com/access/ptb100.php

Unfortunately, the Power Pro Programming Track has not been updated to program sound decoders without the need for a booster.

Rich

 

Thanks I'll check it out

[gdelmoro]

Bayfield Transfer Railway

WORD OF WARNING:

If you use "Programming Track" programming, it will NOT work if "Voice Response to CV Changes" is activated.

Guess how I know THAT.

 

 

How do I disable Voice?

[gdelmoro]

richhotrain

 

 

gdelmoro

Hi,

I got my first Proto 2000 with a Quantum decoder and I'm beginning a learning curve regarding programming.

With my NEC system programming a BLI loco address was simply four controller clicks - Program-onMain-Address-Long and enter the address.

Tried that with the QSI and the voice said "CV18 = 7011" but the loco did not respond.  Turns out you need to program 2 separate CV's (17 & 18) to get the address entered.

The manual says "Procedure for entering long address in CV 56.129. What the hack is that? Then it says, determine the value of CV17 and CV18 from the ID Table.  That table says CV17=219 (Dec) or DB (Hex) or 11011011 (Binary) Clear as mud what I enter but I think I'll try the (Dec) number. CV18=99. So I ASSUME.... If I enter CV17=219 and CV18=99 then the loco address becomes 7011.  WOW

I noticed that these decimal CV's appear througout the manual. Fore example to disable the automatic Doppler Horn you do it in CV51.2. What are these decimal CV's?

 

 

 

 

Those are bits in a byte. Bet you're glad you asked.

 

There are 8 bits in a byte. Each bit has a unique value.

For example, bit 0 = 1, bit 1 =2, bit 2 = 4.............bit 7 = 128.

So, CV56.129 means that the value of CV56 is 129, determined by the decoder sensing that bits 0 and 7 are turned on.

Got that?

LOL, that's why you want to use the Programming Track for tasks like this.

Rich

 

Ok so that makes sense. If i use the program track everything works like my BLI decoder Using the NCE?

I purchased the booster Rich recommende. 

[gdelmoro]

Stevert it was much simpler the first time 

[rrinker]

 You actually had it, if the voice said CV17 = <the long address you wanted>. It's no different than programming any other decoder on the main - if the decoder is using a short address, you can set the long address, but usually not another short address. Or if it has a long address, you can set a short address but not anothe rlong address.

 You do NOT have to program CV17 and CV18 seperately with a QSI decoder. The next step you needed was to set CV29 to a value appropriate for a long address in order to activate it. Here's an online calculator: http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29%20calculator.htm

Read the manual. The indexed CVs are not hard, don't read too much into it, just do what it says. The reason they have that stuff is because the NMRA spec only allowed for 255 CVs, and these more advanced sound decoders have more than 255 things to set.

The real solution to a Loksound is the Lokprogrammer - Standard program devices and JMRI are very unreliable trying to read that many CVs. It takes minutes to get through them all and there still may be some missed reads (or writes). Lokprogrammer reads and writes a Loksound in seconds. And since all my sound decoders except one QSI are Loksound - makes lots of sense.

                            --Randy

 

[gdelmoro]

Ok guys I tried to do what the manual said but the address remains at 3.

The manual says check the chart (which shows CV17=219 & cv18=99) the next bullet says set CV49 to 129. So I did all three in that order and nothing.

Guess I'll try setting CV29 to 38 (based on a CV29 calculator), maybe that's the problem.

Well, I lowered that LOUD sound to a nice level, THAT worked 

[Bayfield Transfer Railway]

I don't remember the CV to disable the voice, sadly.  But it's in the manual.

I use "on the main" programming because I discovered I really like the vocal confirmation that the @(*#$&%^ thing worked.

 

[Stevert]

gdelmoro

Does JMRI work on an ipad or do I need a PC?

 

 

Windows, Mac OS X, or Linux (including RPi). 

 

More info can on OS requirements be found by selecting the links at the bottom of the bar on the left-hand side of the page:  http://jmri.org/

[Stevert]

gdelmoro

Stevert it was much simpler the first time 

 

 

Gary,

 

Like Randy said, just follow the process. 

 

I was just pointing out that there's a difference between setting a bit in a single CV vs. setting a value with an indexed CV.

 

You don't necessarily need to understand all the mechanics behind the process, just that you need to follow it *exactly*.

[hon30critter]

If I recall correctly, QSI decoders can take a fair bit of time to process the commands, so don't rush through the changes. Also, don't you have to cycle the power off and back on to get the commands to take, or is that just for the factory reset?

Dave

[richhotrain]

gdelmoro

Ok guys I tried to do what the manual said but the address remains at 3.

The manual says check the chart (which shows CV17=219 & cv18=99) the next bullet says set CV49 to 129. So I did all three in that order and nothing.

Guess I'll try setting CV29 to 38 (based on a CV29 calculator), maybe that's the problem.

Well, I lowered that LOUD sound to a nice level, THAT worked 

 

Resetting the value of CV29 should complete the process. Once you get the PTB-100 and wire it between the command station and the programming track, you should use the programming track to perform these functions. When you do that, the value of CV29 is automatically reset.

Programming on the Main (POM) is best left for what I call "testing on the fly", not for the basic programming of a decoder.

Rich

 

[richhotrain]

maxman

 

 

richhotrain

Unfortunately, the Power Pro Programming Track has not been updated to program sound decoders without the need for a booster.

 

 

I suspect that if they did come up with a mod or add on to do this, it would still be easier/less expensive to purchase a PowerCab.  You would end up with all the capability, plus an extra cab.  I don't know what the currently available power boosters cost, but Streamlined Backshop is having a summer sale on the PowerCabs right now for $137 plus shipping.

 

Probably not a bad idea. I have often thought of supplementing my Pro Cab with a Power Cab, but just never acted upon that idea.

Rich

[richhotrain]

Stevert

 

Actually, that's not quite correct for Indexed CV's.

So not the same as different bits within a single CV.

That is true. Fortunately, the old QSI Quantum decoder that Gary is working with did not rely on indexed CVs.  That came later.

Here is a link to the QSIs primer on indexed CVs.

http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/0f7119_a2df90ce109347f493ec8c95253ec6a9.pdf

Easy reading for a complex subject.

Rich

[gdelmoro]

Thanks everyone.  I purchased the booster. Ill try the CV29 and let everyone know how it goes.  Are NEW QSI decoders different? How so?