Several years ago, I installed a NCE N12SR decoder in my Proto HOscale USRA 2-8-8-2 locomotive. For the first time since I've had it, I tried to consist it with another loco. I have speed-matched both engines to run a pretty much identical speed curve, in their original addresses. The lead loco is address 5, the second loco is address 2. Once again, the two locos have almost IDENTICAL speed curves​. When I set CV19 on loco 2 to 5, the speed of that loco is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than what it was! Runs much SLOWER than it did before I changed CV19. Will not keep up with the lead engine. According to all the literature I can find on the NCE N12SR decoder, there are no individual settings for "consist" speed curves. Why does changing CV19 change the speed? I called the guy at NCE, and he said the problem I was having was "IMPOSSIBLE", and I wasn't "consisting correctly"! What? The description of "CV19" in the manual is "CONSIST ADDRESS". What am I doing wrong, and what is the Tech guy at NCE talking about?? Any ideas? Edit: by the way, he also said I "should NOT change CV19 to run loco in a consist"! I am totally confused.....
Mike C.
What DCC system are you using? If you've already speed matched them, would it be easier to consist the two locos together using the consisting method suggested in your DCC system manual?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I have an NCE 5 amp PH-Pro system, and I would not set up a consist by changing the value in CV19. NCE has an established procedure for setting up a consist and that is the procedure that should be followed.
When the established procedure for setting up a consist is followed, CV19 is automatically revalued to identify the consist. In that way, prior speed matching should be unaffected.
Since you loco addresses are 2 and 5, there are some other considerations. Since a loco address between 1 and 127 is considered a short address, a "leading zero" is necessary for long addresses below 128. A long address between 1 and 127 will have an asterisk (*) before the long address on the cab display. I am not sure if you can set up a consist using short addresses so be sure that you have set up 2 and 5 as long addresses.
Also, when you changed the value of CV19 to 5 for loco 2, you would also need to change the value of CV19 to 5 for loco 5 if you attempt to manually create a consist. Assuming that you can set up a consist by merely changing the value of CV19 in the affected locos, a procedure that I have never attempted, I don't know how you would identify the lead and rear locos which is done automatically when you follow the established NCE procedure.
One last thought. When you changed the value of CV19 to 5 in loco 2 and then attempted to run locos 2 and 5 as a consist, are you saying that loco 5 responded to your commands at all? If you only changed CV19 to 5 in loco 2, the value of CV19 in loco 5 should remain zero unless and until you change the value of CV19 to 5 in loco 5. So, I would expect loco 5 not to respond to consist commands. How do you address the consist on you cab?
Rich
Alton Junction
What decoder is in the second loco? I'm guessing a Digitrax decoder, because Digitrax is about the only one with individual settings for BEMF when in consist and when running alone. If they run well running at the same time but with individual addresses, to fix the other one you need to read CV57. It probably has a value between 1 and 15. Multiply that number by 16 and that is the new value for CV57.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
WOW! I have finally been able to respond to my own thread! (notice the different screen name). I am going to try to fill-in some details why I still have the chance! My "DCC" system is actually an MRC TECH 6, 6amp dual mode system. since I'm still running quite a few old, but dear, DC only locos, I can switch from DCC to DC with just a push of a button. HOWEVER, the Tech 6 is limited to only six single-digit addresses, and I can change any and all CV's, but I can't "read" them. I only have about six DCC/(some) sound locos, addresses 1 thru 6 is ok for me. The locos I normally doublehead are: (2) BLI Class J (QSI), BLI Class A (QSI), four Hornby (British) with TCS "keep alive" decoders, and the Proto Y3 2-8-8-2 with the dreaded NCE decoder. As with all of these locos, when I want to doublehead, all I do is set CV 19 on the SECOND loco to the same single-digit address of the FIRST loco (after I have set CV's 2, 3, 4, 5, (and sometimes 6, if applicable), to match the speed, accel and decel. It has ALWAYS WORKED! All my N&W stuff is matched, and works, same with the British trains. Some of the Limey engines do have cheap Digitraxx decoders, they work fine for doubleheading, too. SO, the big question is: WHY does the speed of the Y3 change DRASTICALLY with the NCE decoder, upon changing CV 19 to anything other than "0"?? On all the others with sound, the second loco (CV19 changed from 0 to lead loco address), only the FIRST loco blows the whistle, or rings the bell, and can be programmed so only the rear light comes on in reverse. Just as it's supposed to do! When I set CV19 on the Y3, it responds fully to the address of the first engine, only the speed is WAY off....Ideas, anyone? By the way, I can "read" all the CV's on the QSI-equipped locos due to the "verbal-announcement" feature. If I don't reply, It's because I CAN'T...!
Off Topic, but how did you go from 244 posts to a new June member with only one post?
For some reason, I have been unable to login using my old credentials. Get some kind of "runtime error" message. I setup a new account with a new email and user name. So far, it's working..
You're certain this is an NCE decoder? I've used many of them when they were $12 each and the better ones were closer to $40 (and not always better), and as far as I know there is nothing that changes when using CV19. The only one I am aware of that has a different motor control setting for CV19 consisting vs when CV19 is 0 are the Digitrax ones with BEMF (mostly the 163 and higher - the 123 series does not have BEMF). Read CV8 and see what you get - if it's NCE it will be 11. If it's Digitrax, it will be 129.
To be honest....no. I picked up decoders here, there... I didn't know doo-doo about decoders, possibly 8-10 years ago. Probably on sale. Since I can't read CV's with my system, any way I can easily identity it? I do know F4 dims the headlight, and F6 turns on switching mode. Does this tell you anything?
If those are out of the box function settings, then it's a Digitrax decoder. SO it is an issue with the CV I mentioned in my first reply. If you can't read the current value, set CV57 to 102, assuming it is currently at the default value of 6. Then that loco should run identically in a consist as it does running alone.
Can I ask, how did you come up with "102" for the value of cv57? I think I have found out it IS a Digitrax DZ123PS decoder. I actually found the paperwork I had stashed in a "secret" place (in other words, lost) and on it I scribbled "Y3 PROTO". How about that for EFFICIENCY...?
CV57 is used to store TWO values in one CV. It's the strength of the BEMF. You have to think in other than decimal numbers to get this though. A CV is one byte, which is 8 bits. You want two values? Well cut it in hald, you have 4 bits for one value and 4 bits for the other value. Sometimes 4 bits is called a "nybble". It so happens that 4 bits is also 1 hexidecimal digit.
Per the decoder manual, the default is supposed to be 6. In hex - 06. The first 4 bits are 0, this is the BEMF strength in consist (meaning CV19 other than 0), and the last 4 bits are 6, which is the BEMF level when running singly (CV19 = 0). So, if you want the exact same BEMF in CV19 consist, you need to make the value oif the first 4 bits ALSO 6 - so now you have 66 in hex. Which is 102 decimal. 6 x 16 + 6.
I would have never figured that out... I've been reading the Digitrax online manual... what about CV's 55 and 56? They also appear to have something to do with the BEMF in consist. Am I right, or just unbelievably confused? OK, I know I'm confused...
"Sometimes 4 bits is called a "nybble". It so happens that 4 bits is also 1 hexidecimal digit."
My, how things have changed. I grew with 4 bits being called 50 cents. Now 50 cents won't get you a nybble of hardly anything. As for hexidecimal digit, I think that's what the doctor said I had when I broke my finger quite badly.
(Sorry folks, but that's what you get this late at night!)
- John
wobblinwheel I would have never figured that out... I've been reading the Digitrax online manual... what about CV's 55 and 56? They also appear to have something to do with the BEMF in consist. Am I right, or just unbelievably confused? OK, I know I'm confused...
No, 55 and 56 are just single values, 0-255. Not sure how you would think they would be the same as CV57 from looking at the manual - section 8.5 starting n page 47 of the decoder manual:
http://www.digitrax.com/static/apps/cms/media/documents/documentation/Decoder_Manual_V2-01_2014.pdf
If your loco runs fine standalone, don't mess with CV 55 and 56. Under CV57 it explicitely states that CV57 controls the back EMF seperataly for regular addesses and advanced consist addresses. It even has a table for CV57 that has consist and non consist values. They don't even explain the old way to calculate it which I still say is more straightforward than giant tables of all possible values. Or maybe with this common core stuff they no longer teach place values? The number 48 for examples. 4 tens and 8 ones. 4x10 +8 Only difference is hex is that each digit goes from 0-F instead of 0-9. So 48 hex is 4 x 16 + 8.
So you have two columns. Column 1 is the consist value, column 2 is the standalone value. By default you have 06, that means 0 for consist, 6 for standalone., You want them the same. So you make column 1 also 6. Now you have 66. That's 6x16 + 6 = 102. Or you switch the windows calculator to programmer mode and just punch in the number and it shows the decimal, hex, octal, and binary equivalents.
Randy, your knowledgeable advise worked PERFECTLY! I have FINALLY been able to sit up long enough to try out the new settings. I've been down on my butt, off and on, for over a month dealing with a pinched "sciatic nerve". The pain has been APALLING! Never felt anything like it... Anyway, your suggestion has made my Y3 run exactly as I want it to! I just can't tell you how grateful I am for your help!
wobblinwheel I've been down on my butt, off and on, for over a month dealing with a pinched "sciatic nerve". The pain has been APALLING! Never felt anything like it...
I've been down on my butt, off and on, for over a month dealing with a pinched "sciatic nerve". The pain has been APALLING! Never felt anything like it...
Thanks, Rich! The four weeks for me have been a nightmare! D's say to expect possibly FOUR MORE...
Good luck and sympathy for the sciatic nerve! It's a real pain in the butt, ain't it!!
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!