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Another BLI problem

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  • From: Moneta, VA USA
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Another BLI problem
Posted by gdelmoro on Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:16 PM

Let me start by saying that BLI stands by their products. I have NEVER had a problem getting support or products fixed.

That said I have 5 BLI Locomotives, 2 Paragon 3 and 3 Paragon 2 locomotives. One of the Paragon 3's (SD7) went back and forth to Florada from NJ 2x.Once they paid and once I paid for shipping. Then I needed to replace the decoder on another Paragon 3 (Mikado) they sent the decoder and I had to ship the old one back. An EMD1500 Paragon 2 just stopped working so I paid to send it back. BLI replaced the decoded, motor and fixed a clearance problem. Now my Paragon 2 Mikado wont hold programming on the decoder and just sits there with the sound on but after 3 hard resets it takes a couple of CV programs and wont move. BLI is sending a replacement decoder. I need too send teh old one back.

Am I just unlucky? Does anyone else have problems with BLI locomotives?

Again the service rep was very nice, diagnosed the problem and is sending a replacement no charge. Just VERY frustrating.

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, June 8, 2017 4:42 PM

Gary, I don't know what to say. I have followed your threads, and I feel your pain.

I have six BLI steamers and nine BLI diesels.  No problems worth even mentioning.

I believe that you are cursed.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Thursday, June 8, 2017 5:09 PM

Big Smile LOL! Thanks for the laugh. That's great to hear since I really like their detail and sound.

Gary

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Posted by BigDaddy on Thursday, June 8, 2017 5:43 PM

I don't have any but it sure seems like I read about a lot of problems with BLI and not just from you.  Maybe that's just because of their share of that market.  Because of that, there are none on my wish list.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, June 9, 2017 4:21 AM

BigDaddy

I don't have any but it sure seems like I read about a lot of problems with BLI and not just from you.  Maybe that's just because of their share of that market.  Because of that, there are none on my wish list.

 

That's a shame because BLI makes some mighty nice locomotives. Their steam engines are the best on my roster. Their diesels, particularly their passenger locomotives, are also among my favorites.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Friday, June 9, 2017 6:13 AM

I really like them too but it was getting really frustrating  The GP20 is coming out this summer so I'm going to try once more.  I must say the ones they fixed or replaced decoders have been running fine.

Gary

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Posted by Water Level Route on Friday, June 9, 2017 6:15 AM

I have four Paragon 2 steamers and my issues have been relatively minor compared to yours.  Won't retain momentum settings other than factory default.  That and I'm not a fan of the whistles (including how the chuff sound reduces in volume when the whistle blows).  I would definitely purchase more BLI locos, but someday when excess funds permit, all their decoders are getting replaced with something else.  In reading about your issues, I can't help but think you may be having an electrically based issue going on.  You aren't trying to "dual mode" your layout by having both DC & DCC available to it, are you?  Assuming no, I can't help but think it would be worth making sure power is completely dead to the layout when you aren't operating (i.e. unplugging the power supply from the wall/using a switch to kill power to the outlet/etc).  Maybe some sort of electrical spikes are making it all the way to the layout? 

One final thing I can say is that I've had some really screwy things happen with the Paragon decoders when the wheels on the locomotives got dirty enough.  Various sounds like bells/whistles/water fill turning on & off on their own while the engine is running down the tracks.  Even had one hiccup happen on the layout once where I had a momentary short (forgot power was on the rails), and when the system reset, all the BLI locomotives started moving on their own.  That was exciting for a minute!

Mike

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, June 9, 2017 6:15 AM

gdelmoro

I really like them too but it was getting really frustrating  The GP20 is coming out this summer so I'm going to try once more.  I must say the ones they fixed or replaced decoders have been running fine.

 

So, remind me (us). Were all of your BLI problems decoder-related?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, June 9, 2017 6:19 AM

Water Level Route

I would definitely purchase more BLI locos, but someday when excess funds permit, all their decoders are getting replaced with something else.  In reading about your issues, I can't help but think you may be having an electrically based issue going on.  You aren't trying to "dual mode" your layout by having both DC & DCC available to it, are you?  Assuming no, I can't help but think it would be worth making sure power is completely dead to the layout when you aren't operating (i.e. unplugging the power supply from the wall/using a switch to kill power to the outlet/etc).  Maybe some sort of electrical spikes are making it all the way to the layout? 

I have wondered the same sort of thing. Not sure exactly what sort of electrical problem may be experienced, but there just seems to have been too many BLI failures to be a mere coincidence or a bad run of luck.

Gary, I am not placing the blame on you. It may be something occurring that you are not aware of.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Friday, June 9, 2017 6:44 AM

ALL had to have decoders replaced. ONE had to have a decoder AND motor replaced as well as have linkage work done.

Gary

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Posted by gdelmoro on Friday, June 9, 2017 6:48 AM

Rich, I'm thinking the same thing! But you would think BLI would mention that. I do not run Dual mode. I shut the Power supply after each session.

Any ideas how to check are WELCOME!

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, June 9, 2017 7:09 AM

gdelmoro

Rich, I'm thinking the same thing! But you would think BLI would mention that. I do not run Dual mode. I shut the Power supply after each session.

Any ideas how to check are WELCOME!

 

I believe that you have told us this before, but as a reminder, what DCC system do you use?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Friday, June 9, 2017 7:19 AM

NCE Pro Cab w/Radio 5amp connected to 4 EB1 Circuit breakers one for the dual mainline, one for teh sorting yard, one for the ferry yard one for the programming track. A 5th will added for the reverse loops currently not connected.

https://imgur.com/gallery/KH3ZK

https://imgur.com/gallery/TNrKr

 

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, June 9, 2017 8:20 AM

gdelmoro

NCE Pro Cab w/Radio 5amp connected to 4 EB1 Circuit breakers one for the dual mainline, one for teh sorting yard, one for the ferry yard one for the programming track. A 5th will added for the reverse loops currently not connected.

https://imgur.com/gallery/KH3ZK

https://imgur.com/gallery/TNrKr 

ahh, that's right, same system as mine, an NCE 5 amp PH-Pro wireless command station. So, just the built-in 5 amp booster? Let me study your photo links and get back to you.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Water Level Route on Friday, June 9, 2017 8:32 AM

I also have the Radio Pro Cab, just without the EB1's, and has not caused me issues like yours, so it's probably safe to rule it out.  I'm assuming you are using the rocker switch on the power supply to shut it down.  I've not had mine taken mine apart, so can't comment on whether it is a positive break, or tied in electronically.  Personally, I would try unplugging it when not in use for a while and see if things clear up for you.  If the plug is in too difficult of a location to make that workable on a regular basis, perhaps invest in a decent surge protector?  A DCC system is basically just a specialized PC, and the age old advice on those is to use surge protectors and consider unplugging them during an electrical storm, regardless if you have them turned off.  I know, not quite the same beast, but still...  Another one that just occured to me is that in my experience the BLI decoders are more sensitive to shorts that the main NCE breaker (again, I don't have the EB1's, so this point may be moot).  I use Peco code 100 switches and before I took steps to correct shorting issues at the frogs, my BLI steamers would perform random sounds, interruptions in movement on the occasions they bridged the frog rails and momentarily shorted without tripping the system.  Maybe you are having a similar, more frequent occurance like this that is frying the decoders?

Mike

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Posted by gdelmoro on Friday, June 9, 2017 1:42 PM

Yes the rocker on the power supply.

Wouldn't the locos hesitate or stop / start if there were a short at the turnout?

I'll get a surge protector to see if that has any effect.

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, June 9, 2017 2:55 PM

Gary, just out of curiosity, why do you feed your programming track wires through a circuit breaker?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Friday, June 9, 2017 5:24 PM

No idea Sad. Clearly I'm not an electronics guy. The breakers were recommended for the other districts so I just thought I needed one there too. NO ?

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Friday, June 9, 2017 5:59 PM

gdelmoro

No idea Sad. Clearly I'm not an electronics guy. The breakers were recommended for the other districts so I just thought I needed one there too. NO ?

 

You don't "need" one.  I don't have one even thought I do have 7 other circuit breakers on the layout to control and protect power districts. I am not suggesting that is a problem to have a circuit breaker in front of the programming track. Maybe Randy or one of the other electrical experts can chip in here with their thoughts.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Friday, June 9, 2017 6:42 PM

I would love to hear what they think.  Also I may have the EB1's set too high!

 https://imgur.com/gallery/O5Teg

I have it set for 8 AMPS

Gary

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Posted by rrinker on Friday, June 9, 2017 11:12 PM

 A circuit breaker on the program track won;t have an effect oooon trains running on the main track output - especially with NCE, since only one is ever possibly active at once (with Digitrax you can program on the program track while others still run trains on the main).

 It won't hurt anything, although the resistence of the breaker circuit (there is a slight voltage drop as well) may cause readback issues. It's not in any way needed - the program track output is already limited to a very low current level. That's why it is recommended to test a new install by first programming it on the program track - if there is a short, odds are the program track power is low enough to not fry anything. If it won't work on the program track - do not set it on the main until you figure out why.

 Free up the extra EB1 for somewhere else, or just keep it handy as a spare in case one of the others fails.

                                --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, June 10, 2017 4:04 AM

gdelmoro

I would love to hear what they think.  Also I may have the EB1's set too high!

 https://imgur.com/gallery/O5Teg

I have it set for 8 AMPS
 

Since the NCE booster is a 5 amp booster, the circuit breakers should be set to trip lower, say 4 amps. At 8 amps, the booster will trip before the circuit breaker in the event of a short. In that instance, the entire layout will shut down instead of only the individual power district that you are trying to protect.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Saturday, June 10, 2017 5:36 AM

OK 2 improvements. 1-remove the breaker on the program tracK. That is exactly the problem I had when I tried to read a new decoder.  2-Reduce the breaker trip voltage to 7 AMPS.

Thank you

Gary

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, June 10, 2017 5:39 AM

gdelmoro

OK 2 improvements. 1-remove the breaker on the program tracK. That is exactly the problem I had when I tried to read a new decoder.  2-Reduce the breaker trip voltage to 7 AMPS.

Thank you

 

Set the breaker trip amps to 4. At 7 amps, the main booster will trip before the EB1 ever has time to act.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by gdelmoro on Saturday, June 10, 2017 6:29 AM

Thanks Rich! 4 it is. These BLI are nice Locos I hope the CB change and Surge Protector makes things better.

BLI 282

Gary

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Posted by PRR8259 on Saturday, June 10, 2017 7:01 AM

I have been disappoinnted with the sound and intermittant chuff of BLI steamers.

My brass steamers run better, period.

See my post far down page 2 for more info.

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Posted by gdelmoro on Saturday, June 10, 2017 7:24 AM

Well that's discouraging. My track is gleamed and I clean it once a month. The BLI locos that have been repaired run well.

Gary

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Posted by floridaflyer on Saturday, June 10, 2017 8:57 AM

My 2 BLI T-1's just run and run and run. Have  six BLI engines, all steam, and they run trouble free. Had to send one back, my fault, and they fixed it NC. 

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Posted by gdelmoro on Saturday, June 10, 2017 5:37 PM

Ok something is wrong!  2 MORE BLI Locos stopped working.  I moved the EB1 to 4 Vlots so short. When I tested the track voltage with a multimeter (I know wrong thing but I don't have a DCC meter yet) it shows about 10VAC. Voltage is steady. A SS washer across the tracks trips the breaker.

One loco just runs backwards now. It was running fine until I programed volume CV's and switched some function buttons. The horn will sound but it does not stop until I shut power. The other (JUST Repaired) ran forward until I tried to switch to reverse and then it stopped (still making sound) but cant sound horn or bell and wont move.

I'm guessing it cant be BLI must be something wrong with the Wiring or NCE.  Wiring is simple a 12Ga Buss with 18Ga feeders connected with Suitcase Connectors.  All sections have equal power. 

Just pulled the only hair I have OUT! Crying

Gary

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, June 10, 2017 9:02 PM

 Are you using the meter on AC or DC? On AC, an ordinary cheap multimeter should read close to the real track voltage. 10V is way too low for HO scale. The in-between types, like if it says "RMS" but not "True RMS", will be the most INCORRECT - so you either want to use something pretty fancy, or else a really cheap one, like the Harbor Freight meter. I get almost exactly what the track voltage is supposed to be when measuring with the HF meter. If you are using something similar and getting only 10V, that's a problem. Check the voltage right at the track terminals (ahead of the EB1's) on the base unit. And then test at the output of each EB1. It shouldn't drop from a nominal 14-15V to only 10V passing through the EB1.

 Hpwever, being low, it may CONFUSE the BLI decoder, but it's not going to fry it.

The one that won't stop - bet you accidently set CV4 when you meant to program something else. CV4 is braking momentum, and a high value there can make the loco run for minutes after you set the speed to 0.

 Have you tried resetting any of them when they 'fail'? They might just need a reset to go back to working normally.

                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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