Wiring Tortoise to Two Toggles

[ROBERT PETRICK]

Is it possible to control tortoise machines from two toggles? Kinda like three-way switches for household lights?

A bunch of electronic stuff has arrived, and my layout build has now gone into the wiring phase. Here's a sketch of the middle peninsula (simplified). The diagonal line is a more-or-less crossover that crosses the 4-foot wide peninsula forming a reversing loop of the mainline. The diagonal is about 6 feet long, so it is a little different from a 'normal' crossover. It also has industry spurs turning out from it. For that reason I don't want to throw both switches of the 'crossover' simultaneously.

What I want is to be able to throw one or both of the tortoises from either side of the peninsula and have some way to indicate turnout position at a glance. I show a simplified fascia panel with red/green LEDs on the sketch, but just the simple up/down direction of the toggle thumb switch would be good enough. Here's where the situation differs from normal household three-way switches: the thumb toggle of those household switches point up or down and so there is no 'on' or 'off' position to give a visual clue as to status.

Any ideas?

Thanks, Robert

[carl425]

edit: Never mind.  I just noticed you don't want to throw both at the same time.

[fwright]

We deal with this in Free-mo (or any modular system) that requires turnout controls on both sides.

As you pointed out, using two DPDT toggle switches in series is like the 3 way light switch situation - the toggle handle will not work as an indicator of turnout direction.

At our HOn3 modular club, we turn the Tortoise toggles horizontal so that there is no temptation to use the handle as an indicator.  Turnout direction is determined by visually sighting the turnout - works pretty well in HOn3 where modules are 3ft or less wide, and there are no known turnouts in tunnels (so far).  We don't like LED lights on the module fascia - we want operators to focus on the train and the track.

The next easist solution is to drive LED indicators with the contacts on the Tortoise, not with the toggle switch.  LEDs are powered separately from the Tortoise and indicate actual position of the Tortoise.

Another solution I have heard of is to use push buttons or momentary switches instead of toggles to drive a latching relay (can subsitute latching electronic circuit for a relay).  DPDT contacts on the relay serve as the single toggle for the Tortoise.  Then the momentary switch/switches at the 2 (or more) control points can always drive the Tortoise in the specified direction.  Using this system on our modules, the lower button always pulls the points towards you, and the upper always pushes the points away from you.

A more prototypical method would be to install operating switch stands that are driven by the Tortoise.  One of our guys installs harp style switch stands that are actuated by the Tortoise.

Hope this helps

Fred W

 

[Old Fat Robert]

Robert: The answer is yes and it is quite easy. If you have access to Model Railroader back issues (such as the MR archives) look at the July 2002 issue. It has a color schematic including leds. I am quite sure that there are other people on the forums that are better at posting pictures than I am and I am quite sure one them will oblige you soon. If not, I will attempt to get that diagram posted here shortly.

Old Fat Robert

[lifeontheranch]

Using a $1.99 latching relay:

You can have one or more switches control one or more Tortoises. Each push of a momentary switch changes throw of Tortoises. Schematic and, if desired, PCB mask are here: http://www.lkorailroad.com/tortoise-printed-circuit-boards/

 

[ROBERT PETRICK]

fwright

As you pointed out, using two DPDT toggle switches in series is like the 3 way light switch situation - the toggle handle will not work as an indicator of turnout direction.

At our HOn3 modular club, we turn the Tortoise toggles horizontal so that there is no temptation to use the handle as an indicator.  Turnout direction is determined by visually sighting the turnout - works pretty well in HOn3 where modules are 3ft or less wide, and there are no known turnouts in tunnels (so far).  We don't like LED lights on the module fascia - we want operators to focus on the train and the track.

Hey Fred-

Thanks, this does help. Especially these two paragraphs.

Since the direction the toggle handle points in such a three-way setup is no indication of the turnout direction (and could be downright confusing), I like the idea of turning the toggles sideways and sighting down the rails for a visual cue. I can also live without the green/red LEDs; less fiddling with the wiring and less distracting clutter on the fascia.

Do you have a wiring schematic diagram handy? If not, I'll google around for one.

The fact that you (and your club) faced the same situation and solved the problem pretty much answers my question.

Robert

 

[Guy Papillon]

My problem was a little bit different but maybe it can help you. I have an hidden 3 tracks staging in a closet. I wanted to be able to activate the two turnouts either when I was in the closet assembling trains or outside when running them from or to the staging.

Note than I used the Tortoises integral switches to power the tracks and to light a Led indicating on the fascia outside the closet (where I can't see the position of the turnout points) which track was used.

I hope it can be of some help.