They are distinct modes with any system that supports both. Even those that do not have a different set of connections for the "program track" like the Powercab or the Digitrax DB150.
Programming on the program track, or service mode (that's why programming on the main is also called Ops Mode) is a broadcast. Any decoder receiving the signal is suppose to respond. Service mode provides for but does not require a read back capability.
Programming on the main, or Ops Mode, is directed programming to the selected address. It CAN be broadcast if programming to address 00, which is the broadcast address (also used to run an analog loco on Digitrax and Lenz). There is no reading back, although with the addition of Digitrax Transponding or Railcom you can read information from decoders on the main.
For those systems without a separate program track connection, calling it "programming ont he main" is probably confusing - they only HAVE one track. Unless they have rigged up an isolated section and added a toggle switch to control power to the rest of the layout - but if they understand that then they should get the distinction between a "programming track" and the "main track". On those systems that DO have 2 different connections, it's fairly easy to see the difference.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I don't mean to argue the point about the differences between Programming on the Main (POM), aka OPS, versus programming on the Programming Track. Maybe the terminology differs with different systems. On my NCE PH-Pro, Programming on the Main and programming on the Programming Track are two distinct, and different, modes.
What concerns me is that we not confuse newcomers or casual browsers of these forums. Perhaps the topic is worthy of a separate thread.
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrain tstage Ed is technically correct, Rich. Well, then, let's call it a matter of semantics. As Ed describes it, it is no longer a "programming track" in the purest sense. Rich
tstage Ed is technically correct, Rich.
Ed is technically correct, Rich.
Well, then, let's call it a matter of semantics. As Ed describes it, it is no longer a "programming track" in the purest sense.
I think that depends on what "it" is.
Ed
Ed is technically correct, Rich. With a Power Cab hooked up to your layout as the main DCC system, you can choose either POM or Programming track mode to program your locomotives. Granted, it's better to use the latter because of the lower voltage and the ability to read CVs. With the Power Cab - it's just a different mode but the same wires.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
richhotrain Well, that is not quite right. You cannot program "on the main" on the programming track. Two different things, two different "tracks". Also, the programming track is fed a lower voltage than the main, so the programming track is the better place to play with an untested decoder. Rich
Well, that is not quite right. You cannot program "on the main" on the programming track. Two different things, two different "tracks". Also, the programming track is fed a lower voltage than the main, so the programming track is the better place to play with an untested decoder.
It IS right. I have a "programming track". It is a very nice stretch of Kato Unitrack completely separated from the layout. But I can do "on the main" programming on that very same track by moving the wires on my ProCab.
And, if I want, I can do "program track" on my whole layout. In that case, there IS no physical programming track.
My point is that the differences are in the electronics, NOT the physical tracks. EVEN THOUGH they are usually described as physical tracks: "programming TRACK" and "on the MAIN".
As I said, it took awhile for that to get through to me.
BigDaddy So how is it his resets didn't erase the long address?
So how is it his resets didn't erase the long address?
If the long address is programmed as the default from the factory, a factory reset will return it to that factory set number. A "factory reset" doesn't necessarily mean 03 with Loksound decoders - you create your own "factory reset".
I mentioned this way back with my first post on this topic ....
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
7j43k For DCC, there are (presently) two ways to program a locomotive: "programming track" and "on the main". Note that these terms don't really mean the physical track. Again: THEY DON'T REALLY MEAN THE PHYSICAL TRACK. The real difference is that the two methods have DIFFERENT characteristics. And one of them is that you cannot "read back" CV values with "on the main" programming. So, as has been mentioned or implied by some folks above, you cannot read CV values when you are in the "on the main" mode. Whatever track you are physically on. Lifting a loco from your "programming" track to your layout does not affect which mode you are in. Nor does going in the other direction. While the above is obvious to old timers in DCC, it was NOT obvious to me when I was a beginner. Ed
For DCC, there are (presently) two ways to program a locomotive: "programming track" and "on the main".
Note that these terms don't really mean the physical track. Again: THEY DON'T REALLY MEAN THE PHYSICAL TRACK.
The real difference is that the two methods have DIFFERENT characteristics. And one of them is that you cannot "read back" CV values with "on the main" programming.
So, as has been mentioned or implied by some folks above, you cannot read CV values when you are in the "on the main" mode. Whatever track you are physically on. Lifting a loco from your "programming" track to your layout does not affect which mode you are in. Nor does going in the other direction.
While the above is obvious to old timers in DCC, it was NOT obvious to me when I was a beginner.
It is not clear from his comments exactly what the IM tech guy did to get it working.
And, it still leaves unanswered if the decoder was a LokSound or a Tsunami. It may well be a LokSound that he programmed as if it were a Tsunami.
Who knows, he may have locked the decoder in which case even a reset won't work until the decoder is unlocked.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Ok guys I tried reprograming in ops on main line,dir on the program track,nothing worked,finally I got in touch with intermtn tech guy and he walked me thru some cds and we finally figured out that intermtn programed the engine to a 4 letter address,(the engines number) and since it was a new engine I put it on the number3 when I got it,funny thing is I test ran it on 3 on my layout before it started acting up.Now I have it on the four digit engine number and EUREKA it works.....!!!! T hanks to all for your time and help.
Mark R. I can't help thinking you aren't accessing the proper address for some reason or the engine is still assigned to another throttle. Seeing as how we are down to pulling at straws, tell me what values are in CV1, CV8, CV17, CV18, CV19 and CV29. Mark.
I can't help thinking you aren't accessing the proper address for some reason or the engine is still assigned to another throttle.
Seeing as how we are down to pulling at straws, tell me what values are in CV1, CV8, CV17, CV18, CV19 and CV29.
Mark R. Seeing as how we are down to pulling at straws, tell me what values are in CV1, CV8, CV17, CV18, CV19 and CV29.
I researched the Tsunami manual and the use of CV116, 209-212 is for "CV Optimization". So, apparently, that is what the OP set out to do after reading about it somewhere, but he may or may not have a Tsunami since IM now uses LokSound.
The other CV to check is CV16, the Lock CV. If it is set to something other than zero, it is locked and no other CVs can be changed until CV15 = CV16.
So, check CV8 first to determine whose decoder you have and then check CV16 to see if the decoder is locked. Also, recall that if the decoder is a Tsunami, CV30=2 is the preferred reset to factory default but only after CV15=CV16 if CV16 is other than zero.
I read them back and they read 0.
Mark R. the old train man Just found my list.as follows cv116 to 15,cv209 to50,cv210 to 1,cv212 to 25 I'd like to know where you got that list. I just inspected the file for the Intermountain SD40-2 and NONE of those CVs are valid numbers for that file. Changing them should have basically done nothing, but they may interact with other CVs. Since they are not valid CVs for that file, go back in and set them all to 0 and see what you get. Mark.
the old train man Just found my list.as follows cv116 to 15,cv209 to50,cv210 to 1,cv212 to 25
Just found my list.as follows
cv116 to 15,cv209 to50,cv210 to 1,cv212 to 25
I'd like to know where you got that list. I just inspected the file for the Intermountain SD40-2 and NONE of those CVs are valid numbers for that file. Changing them should have basically done nothing, but they may interact with other CVs. Since they are not valid CVs for that file, go back in and set them all to 0 and see what you get.
BigDaddy The enemy of good is better. I'm not the DCC guru for sure, but it looks like current production IM's have Loksound. You haven't said differently.
The enemy of good is better.
I'm not the DCC guru for sure, but it looks like current production IM's have Loksound. You haven't said differently.
I'm not the DCC guru for sure, but it looks like current production IM's have Loksound. You haven't said differently. There is a locking function in decoders, Loksound doesn't address this in the parts of the manual that I read, but CV 15 & 16 are used to do this in some decoders.
My theory is if you changed CV 16 instead of 116 you locked the decoder and won't be able to reset it until it's unlocked. Again, I'm not the guru, I never locked a decoder and I don't know for sure that function is part of Loksound. You can read more about it here http://www.dccwiki.com/Decoder_Programming_Lock
Rich,I did test run the engine a few minutes on the layout,it worked fine,then i read on some forum to make intermountain engines run better change the cv values to the values I mentioned before then i got locked out. It seems as though I accidently locked something and nothing works. I do dread sending the unit back to intermountain for something I did.
Hmm, say wait a minute. Is this a Tsunami decoder?
If it is, try CV30=2 in OPS mode, then cycle power to the decoder by turning power to the track off and then back on.
The Loksound Select manual provided on the IM site doesn't even mention CV116 in the list of CVs?
the old train man I have a new intermountain sd40-2 and I was resetting some cvs. I tried to make it move and I get no response. The sound is there but nothing else. I tried putting cv 8 to 8 without any luck. Any ideas? Thanks.
I have a new intermountain sd40-2 and I was resetting some cvs. I tried to make it move and I get no response. The sound is there but nothing else. I tried putting cv 8 to 8 without any luck. Any ideas? Thanks.
Thanks for ideas but still no solution.
CVs above 255 need to have upper register Cvs 31and 32 set properly first as there are multiples of the same CV number depending on how the upper register CVs are set. If you don't know what you are doing whe setting these upper register Cvs, hard to tell just what you set.
On the program track, write a value of 8 to CV8 and power cycle the engine. The address will be reset to the same address it was set to when you bought it -not necessarily address 3 if it was set to the engine number from the factory.
PennCentral99 You may want to remove other locos, just to ensure they don't get reset
You may want to remove other locos, just to ensure they don't get reset
Definitely remove all other engines/decoders. They will be changed when programming address 00 in OP's mode.
I had a similar thing happen with one of mine a while back (I'm using Digitrax). Finally got JMRI up and running and did a Decoder read using Decoder Pro, turns out it had spontaneously decided it was part of a consist (In other words, I unwittingly did something stupid). Can't remember which CV(s) handle consist info, but many on this forum know them inside and out. I corrected the errant consist CVs, and got full control back.
Lost/Non-Responsive Decoder – PROG → OPS → Address “00” → CV 8 = 8, CV 30 = 2 → Power Down. You should regain control under address 03
Inspired by Addiction
See more on my YouTube Channel