Hello
I found strange case on Lok Sound Select Decoder. I have 2 train that installed ESU Lok Sound Select
1) SCALE Trains Big Blow Gasturbine : Lok Sound 4.0 Select micro
and
2) BRAWA DBBR 220 : Lok Sound 4.0
Both of trains have same problem and syntoms
- Sound engine start- Light on - No Run/Motor not work- Can't reset decoder : try to reset via Program Trak (ROCO Z21) or ESU Lok Programmer. No error response but the decoder configurations value not changed to default setting.- CV 3 value is changed to "40" - CV 4 value is changed to "255"
I found these case in both train. There are 2 unit of Scale Train Big Blow A and B. A unit no problem.The CV 3 and 4 value I didn't change it, I checked with manufactor's manual the default values are "16" and "16". When I tried to reset decoder (CV8=8), the value of CV3 and 4 still be "40" and "255" !!
Are there anyone found problem like this ?
Skyrider V8
Hi Skyrider:
Welcome to the forums!
Sounds to me like you might be using the wrong address.
I had a similar issue a while ago and I eventually realized that I was entering the default address incorrectly. I use an NCE Power Cab system. When I want to select decoder address '3', all I put in is '3' not '003' which is what I was doing wrong. The confusing part is that the throttle shows the locomotive address as '003'.
I hope your problem is as simple as that.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Seriously? You have to put in leading zeroes?I have an Intermountan F7 that has an ESU decoder and I have the same problem. I'll let you know if that works.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
No, you DON'T put in the leading zeros. NCE is one of those 'overlap' systems. Original DCC addresses went from 01-127. "Long" addresses then extended that to 10239 (weird ways that parts of the bits are used results in 'uneven' numbers like that). Since different systems already did things differently - Lenz only went from 1-99, the rest all went to the full 127 - the extended or long address was left with multiple options. On lenz, 1-99 is a short address, and 100+ is a logn address, always. On Digitrax, 1-127 is a short address, always and 128+ is a logn address, always. NCE does 1-127 as short OR long, and 128+ is always long. So depending on how you key the address in, 3 can be long or short. If you press JUST 3 and enter, it's short address 3, the default for decoders. If you press 003, its long address 3, which will run fin on another NCE system but will not be accessible with Lenz or Digitrax.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
The address 3 or 003 has nothing to do with the question since nowhere does he say that he has an NCE system. Plus changing CVs 3 and 4 also have nothing to do with the problem since they are the momentum CVs, unless the values are so large that he is not waiting long enough for the units to start rolling once he applies power.
I don't think we know what the original values in CVs 3 and 4 were unless he read them before he did anything else. The way the reset with the Lokprogrammer works is it will reset the decoder to the latest CV values, not the original values unless told to do otherwise. Again, I don't think the values in CVs 3 and 4 have anything to do with the issue.
Now, the newest Loksound decoders have a brake feature which is activated by one of the function keys. The function list with the locos should specify which function the brake is. Most of the function keys are latching, which means that the function stays "functioned" until the key is pressed again. So, if the brake has somehow been activated, the loco will not run until the brake function key is pressed again.
I'm not saying that I'm sure this is the problem, but it is something to look at.
I don't understand the OP's post
He didn't change these CVs but they are changed in 2 different locos and identically so in two different manufacturers locos. Is it the Scale train manual that says CV 3 = 16 and why would it say that?
The Lok Programer has a throttle function, do the engines move with that?
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Michael:
Sorry, I didn't explain myself very clearly. Randy is right. You do not want to put in the '00' before the '3'. The mistake I was making was a result of looking at the NCE Power Cab readout and seeing '003' as the locomotive #. It's a bit confusing.
maxman:
maxmanThe address 3 or 003 has nothing to do with the question since nowhere does he say that he has an NCE system.
Are you sure? The OP is using a ROCO 21 (Z21?) command system. I have no idea whether or not the ROCO system behaves the same as my NCE system, but I thought it worth mentioning since my symptoms were the same.
If he is using the Lokprogrammer, he should probably be reading the decoder before he does anything else. Once he does that, he'll know what the address is. In any case he says he has one-half of the big blow set working properly, so if he got that running he should be able to do the same thing to the other units to get them running.
Also, he seems to know what the values of CVs 3 and 4 are, so he must know what the addresses are in order to be able to get that information.
I'm sort of assuming that the locos came with the decoders installed, but maybe he installed them himself. So when he says what the "manufacturer's default values" are, I don't know if that means the manufacturer of the locomotive which came with a decoder, or the manufacturer of after market decoders that he installed himself. It is possible that the default values could be different.
Looking at the Scale Trains website, I don't see any place where it would indicate that the Big Blow units came without decoders. I did find the following manuals for the units: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0642/8107/files/SXT80001-Turbine_Set_Manual.pdf?1032320948084841533
The manual states that the address for the units as supplied is 03. So if the OP's command station acts like an NCE and he uses this address he should be good to go. If he uses some other type I'm assuming that they would treat 03 and 3 as the same.
The manual also states that the units should be programmed seperately. I presume he is doing that. It states that F8 starts the hostler motor in the A unit, but that speed will be limited until he starts the B unit. You need to use F3 to start the B unit.
I don't see any place in the manual where it indicates the default values of CV 3 and 4, so don't know where the OP is getting this information unless there is a seperate document packed with the model containing this information.
I also see from the manual that the default value of CV 29 for the units is 4, which means that analog mode is enabled and the unit will run on the short address. So if he changed the loco address to a long address without making the appropriate change to CV 29 the loco will not move.
Again, not an expert. Just trying to throw out some stuff to see if any of it sticks.
Hi All
Thank everyone for reply my topic.
I sent mail to Scaletrains about decoder setting. He explain me that CV3 and CV4 default value are "40". Ok I havn't problem about this but I think the value "40" is too long for start running.
For entry/select address , I used Roco's multimaus and Z21 App for programming. It don't need to input zero prefix like "00X" and I didn't change the CV 29 value for long address.
maxman If he is using the Lokprogrammer, he should probably be reading the decoder before he does anything else. Once he does that, he'll know what the address is. In any case he says he has one-half of the big blow set working properly, so if he got that running he should be able to do the same thing to the other units to get them running. Also, he seems to know what the values of CVs 3 and 4 are, so he must know what the addresses are in order to be able to get that information. I'm sort of assuming that the locos came with the decoders installed, but maybe he installed them himself. So when he says what the "manufacturer's default values" are, I don't know if that means the manufacturer of the locomotive which came with a decoder, or the manufacturer of after market decoders that he installed himself. It is possible that the default values could be different.
Hi
Both of locos came with ESU Lok sound decoder installed, "the manufacture's default value" mean to default value is ESU Lok sound's manual that I download from ESU website. Because I didn't see all CV value default in Scaletrains/Brawa product manual. So I think I can download from ESU website but I was wrong. I just get confirmation from Scaletrains that the default value of CV3 and CV4 is "40".
For reset decoder, I use Roco Z21 : Multimaus (also try with MRC Prodigy Advance) on Program Track. With ROCO Z21, I not need to select the address, I can programming by select menu CV=8 direcly.
When I first get the trains, I changed trains' address CV1=7 on each Unit A and B (Program each unit seperately)
So my problems are
- I not understand when I reset decoder in many ways : Z21, MRC and LokProgrammer, the CV1 still be "7" not change to "3"
- Trains Unit A is running normal without do anything. When I test reset , it's CV1 changed to "3".- Trains Unit B is not work, when test reset the CV1 not change to "7"
I accept that I did a mistake by not backup or keep the CV list on first read with Lok Programmer.
BigDaddy I don't understand the OP's post He didn't change these CVs but they are changed in 2 different locos and identically so in two different manufacturers locos. Is it the Scale train manual that says CV 3 = 16 and why would it say that? The Lok Programer has a throttle function, do the engines move with that?
I'd like to say about I have same problem in 2 locos about not running. Both of them using ESU's decoder. So I download the ESU decoder manual because I didn't see more CV detail from ScaleTrains manual.
So I'm wrong for assuming that the CV3 must "16" . Scaletrains' support guy confirm me that the value must be "40"
With throttle function on Lok Programmer, engine not move :(
SkyriderV8When I first get the trains, I changed trains' address CV1=7 on each Unit A and B (Program each unit seperately) So my problems are - I not understand when I reset decoder in many ways : Z21, MRC and LokProgrammer, the CV1 still be "7" not change to "3" - Trains Unit A is running normal without do anything. When I test reset , it's CV1 changed to "3". - Trains Unit B is not work, when test reset the CV1 not change to "7" I accept that I did a mistake by not backup or keep the CV list on first read with Lok Programmer.
If you have the Lokprogrammer, make sure that you have the latest update.
If I'm understanding correctly, when you are resetting the addresses, they go back to the default value of 3, and not the 7 that you want it to be. Is that right?
When you are resetting the decoders, they will always reset to the original default values unless you have used the Lokprogrammer to install a new set of values and told the Lokprogrammer that these new values are the new default. When you "write" to the decoder there is a check box that asks you if you want to over-write the original values or not. I forget if the box comes pre-checked or not, but I believe that it is defaulted to prevent one from making an inadvertent error.
So I think what you need to do is read the decoder, change the address to the number you want, and then write that new information back to the decoder making sure that you understand what that check box wants you to do. Make sure you don't change anything else or you may lose all the original programming.
What might work better for you is to just change the address to what you want with your command station and see if the unit will run with that number. Just understand that if you use the command station to set the number at 7, it will go back to 3 if you reset the decoder because that was the original default. And the same thing will happen with any of the other CVs you change unless you have used the Lokprogrammer to write a new set of defaults.
maxman If I'm understanding correctly, when you are resetting the addresses, they go back to the default value of 3, and not the 7 that you want it to be. Is that right?
Ok I'm sorry because I typing wrong about
" Trains Unit B is not work, when test reset the CV1 not change to 7"So it may make you confuse
The correct must be
" Trains Unit B is not work, when test reset the CV1 not change to 3"
On first open the box, the CV1 is "3" and I already changed to "7" and it had run normal for a month until last 3 day. I found problem Unit A is only a unit that can run and Unit B is not run (with CV1 address = "7"). So I try to reset decoder each Unit. Unit A can be reset , CV1 changed to "3" as expected. But Unit B not changed to "3" it still be "7". I got "Error3" message on Multimaus screen.
I tried to change address manual, it can change to any address 1-127 but it can't not run. Finally I tested by Lok Programmer (This is the final step if I can't do anything with my Z21 or MRC). The software is latest update version and it also detect firmware on Decoder and automatic download latest version from ESU. When I reset decoder, the address always turn back to "7" although I change it to any value like 1-127 before. The correct value must be "3" as factory default
Now I receive mail from Scaletrains for confirmation about returning item for repair. So I hoped they may investigate and tell me what is cause of problem.
Thank :)
When they return the units, please let us know what they say the problem was.
maxman When they return the units, please let us know what they say the problem was.
Sure, now I just ship the item it may take time for 3-4 weeks from Thailand to US 555