I just received and unused P2K UP DC 2-8-8-2 and find it a nifty addition for my HO fleet. It runs fine and is DCC ready with an 8-pin plug in the tender. It's item #23342 and the documentation is LifeLike only, Baltimore address, I presume designed pre-Walthers. It runs fine on DC and the lights work.
On the numerous diesels I have done, I have hard wired my preferred LokSound Select 6Aux decoders and removed the circuit boards. But the tender plug is in the board at the bottom of the tender and the board takes minimal room near the floor so I think I'll just use the 8-pin plug.
a) On speaker choice, I see I can easily add dual 28mm Railmaster / Tony's HiBass speakers, which I find are impressive in my E units. I see that they also have 31mm round and 29x40mm oval. I'm interested in getting the best sound but do not know how these speakers compare as they may have different characteristics. I think I can fit a pair of any of these (adding enclosures) and fire the sound through holes in the coal load readily. So if anyone can advise whether they are comparable in quality I will probably go for the largest. Any other brands suggested is fine also to consider.
https://tonystrains.com/product/tds-high-bass-28mm-1-10-x-0-44-enclosed-speaker/
https://tonystrains.com/product/tds-high-bass-1-22-x-0-62-speaker/
https://tonystrains.com/product/large-oval-speaker/
b) A key issue is getting into the loco shell without damaging things. A first priority, now or inevitably, is getting in to add a touch of lube. To disassemble and totally clean and lube the truck and gear assemblies looks a little scary as it says to remove the shell and (upper) weight over the motor just to lube the worm gear from atop. No idea how to remove the gear tower for total cleaning. Short term, I'd be happy just to get the shell off. The instructions (for getting to the bulb wiring) do say to pull off the round "steam dome" on top and remove a screw. If I could do that surely I could add some lube. But I've pulled on the plastic dome with my fingers (it's tough to get a grip) and does not seem to start rising. I'm hesistant to try to get a knife under its edge as that might just hurt the plastic. Advice here would be most helpful.
c) If I can get into the loco, the question of adding LED lighting arises. I measured the DC operation on the tender backup light and it gets about 2.3v. How long do these guys last on DCC typically? And do you know how that headlight assembly works? Can I just pull the plastic parts loose that the bulb is in or will something break?
Any suggestions are most welcome.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
They are 3V bulbs, and if you just plug a decoder into the 8 pin socket, the light power SHOULD still be going through the resistors, meaning they should still only get about 2.3V.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Hrvoje,
That is a very helpful set of photos.
Would you by chance know if the disassembly process is similar for the Proto 2000 Heritage 2-8-4?
Rich
Alton Junction
Dear Rich,
unofortunately, I do not have it, so I do not know the answer to your question.
Hrvoje
Spalato68 Dear Rich, unofortunately, I do not have it, so I do not know the answer to your question. Hrvoje
I'm guessing that the 2-8-4 is similar. I ask because I am trying to replace the incandescent headlight with an LED, and the task is more than challenging because the two lamp wires have to be inserted into female sockets and then remain there as you try to replace the headlight shroud.
I do not know if they are similar - but I have replaced light is Proto 2-10-2. Huh, completely different design, more "Chinese" style. Very complicated to dissasemble, easy to break some parts. But when you remove the shell (boiler), it is easy to put whatever you want as light source.
But once I have finished with 2-10-2 installation, I hope I will never have to open it.
Btw, I found this thread, it may be interesting for you:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/249680.aspx
Thanks again, Hrvoje.
Wow, I was delighted to arise and see the excellent information you have added. Thanks so much for that. I have sent you a message with my email so you can forward the Roco info. I see the tender says made in Austria. Is that where Roco is (or was). It is a really nice loco.
When I get the shell off and remove the upper weight, will I be able just lube the worm gear and hope the lube gets down to successive gears, or will I also be able add lube further down without disassembling the trucks and gear towers, which I presume would be a difficult step given the wipers, etc. Much more challenging than a diesel truck.
On the speaker arrangement, I'm curious about the setup in terms of baffling (enclosure). I think I see you have installed a floor for the speaker halfway up the tender side. Is the speaker simply atop and not enclosed? I'm assuming that if the tender is considered airtight enough to be the enslosure for the speaker, that the speaker must be mounted on a facing that is airtight to the coal load above (the sound outlet) and the rest of the interior (lower portion below the speaker) that would serve as the speaker "enclosure". I have some interest in seeing if I can include two large ovals but the TDS's I listed above look like pretty crude diaphragms so I may keep looking.
On the lighting, I will take a look but will be hesitant about tearing into the front end parts as it may not be apparent how they (handrails in the way, etc) are attached; i.e., simply inserted or glued in).
Again, thanks for the excellent assistance.
Paul,
Roco was once Austrian company, now it is owned by some banks, they have production sites in the EU (Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania) and outside of the EU they have one factory in Vietnam. When I was young, they had, as far as I know, two: one in Salzburg (Austria) and the other in Freilassing, Germany.
Regarding lubing the gears: yes, you could do this without removing trucks from the frame (see also Instructions I have sent to you), but this is where excellent engineering shows its advantages: you can dissasemble and reassemble this locomotive as much as you want - nothing should break. If you want, you can just lube worm and wormshafts from "above", and open the trucks from below and lube the rest from there.
I usually, if locomotive is old or I am not the first user, dissasemble the drive train as much as possible, clean everything and lube again (Labelle).
Tender shell is acting as a baffle as you decribed it: from below, it has a floor (styrene) that is airtight. Before that, I closed all openings in tender shell (even the smallest) above that line where the baffle floor is. Speaker is installed in the opening towards coal load, and closed completely airtight thru small styrene that form some kind of "flange" to accomodate speaker (I had to file speaker a bit, to fit inside, but diaphragm is intact).
Sorry for my decription if it is not completely understandable, English is not my native language so I am trying my best:)
From the install photos ont he TCS site, the 2-8-4 has a completely different board in the tender, it looks identical to the ones used on many of the diesels, certainly as used on the GP7's that I have. On that 'board', the wires and the 8 pin socker are on a small board that plugs in to a larger board with 6 diodes on it. To use a plug-in decoder with this one, you'd need one that has resistors in place for the bulbs, or else swap them out for LEDs. The connector between the loco and tender is yet a third board, so it is entirely possible to hard wire a decoder in this one without worrying about the loco to tender connection.
I'll report that, thanks to your guidance, I was able to get the steam dome off and thus the boiler top so the circuit board could be loosened and the top weight removed. That allowed lubing the worm gear and the motor. I then removed the truck bottom covers as you suggested and could lube the axle gears. The gears were still "wet" with the original white grease like the LaBelle I used so just a slight addition will certainly do for quite a while
I looked over the headlight bulb arrangement more closely and decided to leave well enough alone, at least for now. So now I just need to decide on what speaker arrangement I want to go with.
Thanks again.
Great, I am happy you did it
For any interested, I'll add a video here that demonstrates the 2-8-8-2 UP Y3 project after conversion. The decoder is LokSound 6Aux (Y6 sound file w/N&W whistle) in the tender. The speakers are dual Railmaster 1.2" HiBass tandem in a 0.040" styrene enclosure of max size below the tender coal load, maybe 25% larger than standard enclosures. The coal load is drilled to let sound out, perhaps inhibited (not much, I suspect) by a layer of real coal secured with diluted white glue.
The loco is a real winner in my opinion. It runs very nicely. Pulling power is limited (as some threads indicated) but it will pull 13 cars or more on my 2.4% grade, ok for my small layout. And I may try consisting it with Genesis Big Boy or Challenger when I get to it.
Thanks again for the guidance provided earlier. On the video, apologies for the inconsistent focus as my G12 will not, I think, allow adjusting focus during video shooting. I hoped that manually selecting an ISO speed (I chose 800) might force a narrow lens aperature for more depth of field but that didn't seem to do the trick.
EDIT: correct video link
Original builder of the Proto 2K 2-8-8-2,....and the Rivarossi Allegheny??
Wasn't Roco of Austria the original builder of these two master pieces?
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Spalato68 Hi, You can get into loco but you need to remove steam dome. I have posted few pictures below, I hope they can help. Beside that, if you send me e-mail address, I will send you scanned original instructions from Roco, who designed this locomotive. This document will help in further disassembly when you remove the steam dome. I have installed Soundtraxx Heavy Tsunami in the tender, as you can see on the picture. For loudspeaker, I have used Visaton BF-32 speaker. Tender shell is used as a completely airtight baffle, speaker firing up thru coal load. How it sounds, can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFSY6rWBHw&t=25s Regards,Hrvoje
I have installed Soundtraxx Heavy Tsunami in the tender, as you can see on the picture. For loudspeaker, I have used Visaton BF-32 speaker.
I just posted a few questions on that Youtube presentation, then I noticed that you appear to be the person who made that video? So I thought I would post those questions here as well.
1)How did you get the whistle to sound like that,.....that deep tone.?? 2)And how did you record the sound for your video? 3)Do I assume some of this sound is coming from those stereo speakers I see in the background? 4)Have you ever experimented with adding more weight to this engine to improve its hauling abilities? 5)And lastly, I see it is a Virginian 2-8-8-2. Did it come with two alternate sets on cylinders for the front ones? ....small ones (matching the rears) and larger ones to make it a compound steamer verse a single??
1)How did you get the whistle to sound like that,.....that deep tone.??
2)And how did you record the sound for your video?
3)Do I assume some of this sound is coming from those stereo speakers I see in the background?
4)Have you ever experimented with adding more weight to this engine to improve its hauling abilities?
5)And lastly, I see it is a Virginian 2-8-8-2. Did it come with two alternate sets on cylinders for the front ones? ....small ones (matching the rears) and larger ones to make it a compound steamer verse a single??
I found what I was looking for, the frequency response graph for that speaker:
http://www.visaton.com/en/industrie/breitband/bf32_8.html
It doesn;t start to roll off until below 200Hz, that's how it gets decent deep sounds. That and the fact that the entire tender is used as an enclosure - the bgger the enclosure, the better the bass response (to a point - a 2" speaker in a 10 cubic foot enclosure would do nothing. But the whoel tender vs the typical cut down pill bottle/film canister arrangement - using the whoe tender is goign to sound a lot better). And unlike their rather poor diesel horns, the steam whistles in Tsunami decoders are actually pretty good.
Hi railandsail, thank you for your questions. As I have replied on No 1 - 3 on You Tube, for no 4: No, I did not experiment, but this locomotive has spare wheelset with traction tires, so maybe this could be the solution. To add more weight could be a difficult task, there is not much space left inside locomotive.
On No 5. I cannot answer, I do not have the knowledge on that.
Yes Randy, this speaker goes well down, and it is relatively flat (11 mm + membrane), so it fits in many locomotives, even smaller ones. I installed it also in Athearn F7 (A and B) - with little filing, though.
It is available also in the USA, and I think, it is better than most of the speakers used there for model trains (e.g. Hi bass speakers, that are also at least to me, more difficult to fit inside the loco).
One more thing - speaker baffle is completely sealed in this locomotive - I think this is important. When I blow the horn, you can see the membrane "jumping".
rrinker I found what I was looking for, the frequency response graph for that speaker: http://www.visaton.com/en/industrie/breitband/bf32_8.html It doesn;t start to roll off until below 200Hz, that's how it gets decent deep sounds. That and the fact that the entire tender is used as an enclosure - the bgger the enclosure, the better the bass response (to a point - a 2" speaker in a 10 cubic foot enclosure would do nothing. But the whoel tender vs the typical cut down pill bottle/film canister arrangement - using the whoe tender is goign to sound a lot better). And unlike their rather poor diesel horns, the steam whistles in Tsunami decoders are actually pretty good. --Randy Yes Randy, this speaker goes well down the frequency curve. It also has one more good side. It is relatively flat, so it fits in many locomotives. I installed it even in Athearn F7 A, and B. I think this speaker is better than most that are sold and used for sound in model trains, I just do not know why others do not use it. It is also available in the USA.
Yes Randy, this speaker goes well down the frequency curve. It also has one more good side. It is relatively flat, so it fits in many locomotives. I installed it even in Athearn F7 A, and B. I think this speaker is better than most that are sold and used for sound in model trains, I just do not know why others do not use it. It is also available in the USA.
I converted my old LL 2-8-8-2 to DCC/Sound a couple of weeks ago. I put in a 1" speaker and enclosure facing forward under the coal load. I removed the coal load (it pops out) and used double-sided foam mounting tape to set the speaker & enclosure up, then put the coal load back on. There's enough room around the drawbar (which has a fairly wide opening) for the sound to go out that way without needing to cut up the tender at all.
No Reply address
When I tried to reply to this message a few moments ago, I got a message back that I had tried to reply to a "no reply" address ? Whats going on with this?
I had another subject thread on this forum that did the same thing to me?
Address not found Your message wasn't delivered to noreply@trains.com because the address couldn't be found. Check for typos or unnecessary spaces and try again.
wjstix I converted my old LL 2-8-8-2 to DCC/Sound a couple of weeks ago. I put in a 1" speaker and enclosure facing forward under the coal load. I removed the coal load (it pops out) and used double-sided foam mounting tape to set the speaker & enclosure up, then put the coal load back on. There's enough room around the drawbar (which has a fairly wide opening) for the sound to go out that way without needing to cut up the tender at all.