A few months ago I opemed a discussion on how to wire turnouts so that a light on my control board would indicate direction. After much assistance on this forum, I committed to keeping what I have and purchasing Snap Relays and a Snapper as it was the most efficient use of $$. Now that I have all that and have wired it as instructed, I am having issues getting the Snapper to switch positions to change the light indicators. I have a test set up that I used to get the wiring corrent and it works fine on my bench. When I go to connect it to the layout, the Snap Relay will not activate. The atlas turnouts work smoothly when the Snapper is inserted but the Snap Realy does not work and the lamps are dimmer with the Snapper in line. I am using an older Tyco 895 Transformer, and my assumption is that it is not powerful enough (amp wise) for full function of the turnout and relay. I am using monetary toggle switches with rice grain lamps. My furstration is that it works on the test bench (toggle switch, turnout, snap relay, snapper and transformer all the same) but not on the layout. Any ideas would be helpful!
The lamps controlled by the snap relay shouldnot be anywhere in the circuit with the Snapper.
Your power suppy should feed the Snapper. the output of the snapper should go to your pushbuttons. The three wires from the pushbuttons should go to both a switch machine and the snap relay control. With nothing else connected, try this. The switch should thrown and the relay operate.
To hook up the lights, either use a different power supply or if using the same one connect the lamps to the sie feeding the INPUT of the Snapper.
See the picture on this site, the one labeled "Wiring Travkside Signals" for a diagram
http://tysmodelrailroad.blogspot.com/p/wiring-diagrams.html
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
"It works on the bench but not on the layout" is a common issue with twin-coils, but the solution is usually to get a CD circuit. Since you've got one, I'd suggest checking the wiring. It may also be that your power supply is inadequate for the job.
When you wire something on the bench, you usually use short wire runs to get from component to component. On the layout, longer wires are needed and that eats up some of the power. A CD circuit should overcome that.
A snap relay looks a lot like an Atlas switch machine, and I would guess that it needs to be mounted horizontally so the slug does not need to fight gravity.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasleyWhen you wire something on the bench, you usually use short wire runs to get from component to component. On the layout, longer wires are needed and that eats up some of the power. A CD circuit should overcome that.
He is also using incandesant bulb's fed off the output of the Snapper...should be either a separate supply for them or connect them to the input side of the snapper like Randy suggested. Which raises another point. He should be using the ACC/AC out to power the Snapper which is usually 18vac. I don't know of any rice grain bulbs that are rated for 18 volts, normally 3v/6v/12v/14v/16v, You can use a resistor in line to lower volts to them, but if you are going to do that, you may as well use LED's. Almost all My turnouts are Atlas/Shinohara with Atlas under-table machines and snap relay for frogs and control panel lights/some signal Led's, which have a separate 12vdc 4amp power supply to the relay. I use a 18vac 6 amp supply with normally open push buttons to drive the turnouts....no need for a CD. My longest run to some turnouts is 32ft. with 18gauge wire and have not had any problems with it since 1985. I only use My three MRC CM 20's for nothing but train control.
Take Care!
Frank
broke4life2...I have a test set up that I used to get the wiring corrent and it works fine on my bench. When I go to connect it to the layout, the Snap Relay will not activate. The atlas turnouts work smoothly when the Snapper is inserted but the Snap Realy does not work...
broke4life2...My furstration is that it works on the test bench (toggle switch, turnout, snap relay, snapper and transformer all the same) but not on the layout. Any ideas would be helpful!
The problem could be the length and/or gauge of the wires. If the wires to the Snap Relay are longer or of a smaller gauge then they could be introducing enough resistance to prevent them from throwing. Ideally, you want the wires to each Snap Relay to be the same length and gauge as the wires going to the matching switch machine so they will have matching resistance.
When I tested one of my Snap Relays with my CDU (home-made from Internet plans),I found that the CDU's power was too strong for the relay wich kept bouncing back out of position.These relays don't have locking springs like Peco turnouts.The Snap-Relays require momentary 16-18 VAC.
Gentlemen, thanks for all the recommendations. I took the lamps out of the circuit with the Snapper. I ran two power wires off the Snap Relay Common (one to lamps and the other to turnouts and toggles). Using two power supplies and it works like a charm.
Now to the next issue. I am running a reverse loop and cannot get it to work correctly. I have an AR-1 and have tried many wiring combinations with no success.
Randy -- you have been very helpful to m in the past. Not savvy enough to insert a photo to this forum, so I sent a photo to the email you have listed under your reply. Hope it is still valid. If you could take a look at it and provide some assitance it would be appreciated.
JacktalI found that the CDU's power was too strong for the relay wich kept bouncing back out of position.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I was using a CDU built from an Internet plan.My idea is to use the Snap Relays in parallel with Peco turnouts to operate lights or frog powering.A bench test showed it wasn't reliable as the TO threw cleanly,the relay didn't all the time.I haven't tested the relay alone though.
I haven't repeated the testing so far as the layout isn't yet ready for powering my TOs.May be it was only a faulty relay,someone else may have the same issue.
Try a different one and see what happens? It would appear that a Snap Relay doesn't have the over-center mechanism that is on the Atlas swith motors. If you take a broken one apart, you can see there is a Z shaped channel that converts the parallel to the track motion of the solenoid to perpendiculat to the track motion to move the throwbar from side to side. What would be the top and bottom of the Z both lean slightly to the middle, so if you try to push the points back they will spring but it won't actually move the solenoid, to move the points manually you must move the little nub sticking out the top. It would appear the Snap Relays have nothing like this (they don't really need it) so if thrown with some decent force like from a CDU, the solenoid/contacts just bounce off the stop at each end.
Years ago there was a company that made devices the screwed right to the top of the regular Atlas switch motor and engaged the nub to move contacts - they had both contacts with screw terminals so you could wire up indictor lights or signals, as well as one that included the signal. I remember having one of them on the layout when i was a kid.