Perhaps this is not as common an issue here as ten or fifteen years ago, but then my mother early on noted how late I could be - to anything. I'm about to retire and will now have time, though perhaps not lots of dollars, to switch to DCC. I'd like to design a new, larger layout where I don't need to limit myself to single polarity, or the inadequacies of blocking. How about some suggestions for basic reading materials on the issue, perhaps on the order of "DCC for Dummies"? It's a little hard to become educated and conversant by merely reading the posts here as most are on issues a little deeper into the pool. I'm not afraid of the water, just need to paddle around in the shallow end for a little bit. I'm sure this question has been asked a few times here over the years but I couldn't find anything that fit my issue nicely in the last hundred or so subject topics. This may reflect how far I am along: I do have one DCC Walthers Proto SD9 that is new in the box, but all the rest of my power is old DC or just DCC-ready Athearn Genesis units. Obliged. John
Hey John,
Here is a website that you should bookmark. I've linked to the section on DCC for beginners, but you will find that there is a wealth of good information all through the site:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm
DCC can be as complicated or as simple as you want to make it. I suggest that you focus on the basics to start and not worry too much about the more complicated stuff like speed tables etc. until after you are comfortable with the basics.
Regards,
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
John, with all due respect to Dave, if Wiring for DCC becomes the first reading that you do on the subject of DCC, you may never again want to read anything on DCC, let alone operate in DCC. It is too technical and complex.
I don't have any books or websites to suggest, but I can tell you this. When I got into DCC, to use your pool analogy, I just jumped into the deep end of the pool with no ability to swim. I did not drown.
Operating in DCC is absolutely simple. You connect a few wires, plug the command station cord into an AC outlet, and you are up and running. The complexities begin to arise when you want to program decoders, especially sound decoders, or when you want to install your own decoders. Or, when you want to create power districts, add reverse loops, install circuit breakers, etc.
To overcome these complexities, I began with a simple layout and later moved up to a larger, more complex layout.
C'mon, jump in, the water is not all that cold.
Rich
Alton Junction
Hi!
I too was very hesitant to go to DCC - until I grasped the fact that it can be as easy or as difficult as you wish it to be. Basic wiring is easier than DC, and once you grasp the concept of individual loco IDs (and how to put them in place), you are off and running.
Both Digitrax and NCE offer good introductory systems, and that will get you on the way. There is a ton of stuff you can do to enhance things later on, but the basics to get you going are "no big deal".
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I would suggest looking into RailPro. You don't have to program an address in or worry about CV's. It comes with radio control unlike DCC where radio control is optional at extra cost. Basically install the decoder, connect power to the rails, run your trains.
The Intro to DCC part of Wiring for DCC is pretty good at covering everything without being too technical.
Other things one the site - well, it depends an lot on your layout size. You can get away with a lot on a smaller layout that won;t be reliable on a large one, hence the various points presented throught the rest of the site. MANY of the problems I see posted in the Digitrax Yahoo group are simply the result of not following the instructions or other best practices in hooking everything up. Most recently someone wondering why they have problems when plugging 10 throttles in with no auxiliary power to the plug panels. Digitrax doesn;t hide this requirement, it's pretty well spelled out in the manuals that you need extra power beyond a certain number because thin phone wire just can't carry enough current.
Some DO hide the information, in the belief that this makes their system "easier" to understand. It works great on a small layout with 2 or 3 throttles maximum. Then you build a basement size lauout and it doesn't work right - only then after much hair pulling do you find that no system is immune to the laws of physics and you need to provide the extra power.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
John,
I too was in the same situation 5 or 6 years ago. The sugestion from Dave to read wiring for dcc was what I did, read the beginers section and then go to wiring section 1 and 2. There is a lot of info to absorb but you can go at your own pace, dont let it scare you off, I did it and you can also. Printing sections for easy reading and refering back to may help, it did for me.
Good luck and enjoy Dan
Three quick points to add to the conversation:
First, I agree with the suggestion to use the Wiring for DCC site as a starting point. As others have noted, start with the "Basics" section, and proceed to other areas later.
Second, electricity is electricity, whether it's DC or DCC. You will still need to pay attention to polarity.
And finally, as far as blocking - Although DCC itself does not require blocks, if you ever plan on signalling, automated running, etc you will need to block your layout. So you might want to consider wiring for blocks right off the bat, instead of having to go back and re-do everything. This is also covered at the Wiring for DCC site.
Just getting into DCC also as I bought a layout that had NCE Power Cab, Smart Booster, and CP6 circuit breakers....CP6 is the problem....now bought NCE Power Pro-R wireless. Thinking about EB1's for circuit breakers, but need to know what other alternatives are being used, pro's, con's, recommendations, etc.
Thanks.
IMO too many MRers seam to enjoy ''over thinking'' every thing.When I switched to DCC ,it was 2 wires from comand station to rails, simple.My engines were dcc equiped off the shelf,had theLHS program address,simple. I went home played with trains,simple. I have learned how to program,along with other stuff along the way.But only what I needed/wanted to know.
Don't allow the over thinkers to scare you
I included a book in my research and, like several track books, found that very helpful for initial learning and some specifics to supplement the Forum, websites, etc.
I bought in 2011 The DCC Guide, which now has a 2nd version. I suggest to read reviews of the 2nd version to decide. It covers all the basics and gives a broad undestanding and was, for me, a good starting point.
https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/search?q=dcc++guide
You might also download some instruction manuals and look them over. For instance, the getting started section of my NCE shows how simple it is to get started. Or a Soundtraxx Tsunami, TCS WoWSound or LokSound Select Users Guide. Also, I found a conversation with someone at Tony's Trains (or other) when I got close to deciding on my system and auxiliary equipment (e.g., reversers) very helpful. Of course visiting an acquaintance or club with a DCC system could also be very helpful.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Hello all,
A couple of resources that might or might not have been mentioned are:
The National Model Railroad Association. They helped standardized the DCC system. Some of it can be a bit too technical but it outlines almost everything.
Also, check out The DCC Guy, A.K.A. Larry Puckett. He covers a lot of topics on DCC.
Also, Kalmbach publishing has a plethora of books on model railroading.
What is your background?
We have folks on these forums that make their own computers and electrical components to folks that just want to run trains- -both DC & DCC.
Some folks have backgrounds in construction and focus on the building side of this hobby.
While others have more artistic backgrounds so scenery and model building are their forté.
You are definitely on the right path by asking questions. The more specific your questions are the better all the folks in these forums can assist.
In regards to the different control systems, it has been said, "With DC you run the track, with DCC you run the locomotives.
Welcome to the forums.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
I hope this link will not over complicate things. Just look at the upper left. DCC for everyone. He also mentiones the Power Cab that I use.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn2/DCC.htm
I had a HO DC layout for some years wired with #22. I bought the NCE Power Cab and plugged it in to the same connector for my hand held power pack.
I use to run three locos at the max. Much of the time only two locos so I stayed with the #22 wire.
TCS decoder company has a good site with many conversions of locos for non sound and sound.
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
JJ,
As for background, I used to be a fabricator of in-house specialized test equipment in a company that produced sonobouys for the Navy. Didn't do any electronic design work, just built 'em. So I'm fairly adept at mechanical stuff and the electrical installation that goes along with it - and, if I may say so, a quality solderer. I may end up giving a stab at scenery, but it's down the priority list at the moment. I'll probably over-build my benchwork, if only out of habit. But my next priority after getting the pike laid, wired (most likely with remotely powered switchs), and up and running, will be slapping some decoders into my Genesis DCC-ready locos, and then a kitbash or two of some MoW/snow equipment. I may farm out any later weathering. In the next year or so I mostly want to see my rolling stock moving! BTW, I'm envisioning a 5"x12' walk-around, perhaps with an "L" if there's room. Doubt that I'll be running more than two locos at a time, one doing circuits, one doing switching.
Attuvian I'll probably over-build my benchwork, if only out of habit.
I'll probably over-build my benchwork, if only out of habit.
If you don't have a lot of dollars, then not overbuilding will save you a little. Using 2x4's and 3/4-inch ply is more than is needed - especially for a small 5x12 walk around. Using 1x4 frame with 1/2 inch ply should be more than enough for Ho.
BTW, I'm envisioning a 5"x12' walk-around, perhaps with an "L" if there's room Doubt that I'll be running more than two locos at a time, one doing circuits, one doing switching.
Did you mean 5 feet x 12 feet? If so and only running 2 loco's at the same time, DCC may be more than you need. I'm not into bluck wiring either but a fairly simple track configuraiton you are planning, DC may be easy enough to run with blocks.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
1arfarf3CP6 circuit breakers....CP6 is the problem.
Can you expand on what problem you have with these?
To the OP a lot of us are returning to the hobby from pre DCC days. DCC requirements for wiring are pretty straight forward. Some of the programming for individual CV's is not. It reminds me of genetics, there may be a gene for Ugly, but there is also also genes for buck teeth, big nose, skinny legs, and no chin. They interact in ways that aren't intuitive. You may have to set on CV to use another CV and the only way to know that is to read the manual, which some people refuse to do.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Riogrande,
Yup, just a case of misbehaving fingers, it should have read 5 feet by 12 feet. I'm not planning something real simple as my design is a bit more than a folded-over loop for the main line with a modest yard (and maybe a second on the "L"), some sidings and a passing track. That's easy in DC and doesn't even require blocking. But I'd like to incorporate a reversing return to the main line to enable a change in direction for my "touring" trains. I'd understood that DCC was an easy enabler for that as well as providing simultaneous mutiple operational control. I was planning on 1x4s and half inch sheeting, just well-braced.
Attuvian I'd like to incorporate a reversing return to the main line to enable a change in direction for my "touring" trains. I'd understood that DCC was an easy enabler for that as well as providing simultaneous mutiple operational control.
I'd like to incorporate a reversing return to the main line to enable a change in direction for my "touring" trains. I'd understood that DCC was an easy enabler for that as well as providing simultaneous mutiple operational control.
BigDaddySome of the programming for individual CV's is not.
Worth noting that many folks go for years using DCC successfully without ever manually configuring a single CV if they purchased a well-designed system.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Breaker fuses are 1 amp and my engines with motion only decoders run fine but engines with motion and sound are drawing more.
That's a little tough to do unless they run all locos on 3!
You have to at least put an address in. Regardless of how it's disguised in the throttle screen, that's setting CVs. EVERY current system isolates you from the actual CVs behind the scenes, but you ARE programming them.
rrinker EVERY current system isolates you from the actual CVs behind the scenes, but you ARE programming them.
Of course, that was my point. That's why I said this in my earlier post:
cuyamawithout ever manually configuring a single CV
Others are (apparently) trying to worry a newcomer to DCC with tales of difficulty in manually configuring CVs.
Even after all these years, mostly all I ever set on any of my locos is the address - I model an era without fancy lighting effects or any of that sort of thing, and the decoders I use start up nice and slow on step 1 without adjustment. Maybe I'll put some momentum in.
No, DCC is NOT complicated. Some people do try to make it so - under the hood, inside the system, or inside the decoder? Yeah, there's a lot going on there, but there is no need to understand even remotely how all those electronics works in order to make effective use of DCC.
What a great background in electronics.
Installing decoders and wiring should be pretty straightforward for you.
My pike was originally DC with 16-blocks and dual cab control and DC control for the turnouts. When I converted to DCC I kept my turnouts DC.
The switching on my pike crosses over the mainline so DCC made more sense than having DC blocks.
Knowing what I now know, I would have jumped in to DCC right off the bat.
Good luck and have fun!
DCC is not complex and the wiring is certainly easier than DC.
As for programming CV's I think the hardest part is finding out which CV to program keep those manuals handy.
Joe Staten Island West
If our newcomer has managed to learn how to use a smart phone in the past four years or so, has programmed a universal remote for several appliances, and has wired circuits for a living, setting up a DCC system will be as hard as falling off a log. I have done that in my sleep.
Maybe my story will help.
When I got back into model railroading maybe 6 years ago I wired for dc. I broke it into blocks simply for power distribution. I also wired it for dual, read 2 power packs, and it ran good. I was able to get a Digitrax DB150 at a good price. I flipped all the dpdt switches one way and hooked the dcc unit to that side, as for the other side I simply disconnected the power pack. Low and behold it worked wonderfully. I have had a few issues, metal heels on older cars will sometimes short the unit out, and the dcc had a bad power supply.
Model Railroaders have a tendency to make things overly and needlessly complex. This is not brain surgery.
Mike