This is sort of new territory. I'm not sure how often you would ever need to change the firmware - there's only so many features you can have or need. Over the years, TCS changed a good deal, the original T1 decoders did not have BEMF and then later versions added it. There have been some revisions fo the firmware since, and also in other brands, without any actual hardware change, and usually the change is invisible unless they use the CV reserved for revision number AND assumign anyone bothers to read it to see. Mostly it's probably bug fixes that unless you actually experieneced the issue being fixed, probably never even knew about.
I can think perhaps there may be Lokpilot firmware upgrades to go along with Loksound upgrades that have an effect on the motor drive - like the Full Throttle feature. If you have a consit all using the same address and enage the throttle lock so you can crank up the prime mover on the loksound, increasing the throttle is want to going to increase the speed of any other decoder that isn't aware of this option. Another possibility for an upgrade would be new function effects. Or just general improvements in the motor drive BEMF functionality.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker ...with Lokpilot...they can be firmware updated with the Lokprogrammer.
...with Lokpilot...they can be firmware updated with the Lokprogrammer.
Well that's an interesting side note, Randy. On average, how often would firmware be updated on a decoder? Or, is that just a Loksound feature?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I've been considering going with Lokpilot to match the Loksound sound decoders - they are no more expensive than the TCS ones I've been using, plus they can be firmware updated with the Lokprogrammer. I doubt I will replace any, the TCS run well with the Loksound, but future purchases probably will be Lokpilot.
Well, I took the plunge this evening and picked up the Lokprogrammer from Litchfield Station. I have 6 steam & diesel locomotives with Loksound decoders in them: (3) V4.0 Selects, (2) V3.5, and (1) V2.0. The only one I won't be able to reprogram is the V2.0 decoder, which is in a Trix Mike. The other Trix Mike I have was upgraded to V3.5 a few years back.
So - like you, Randy - it "Loks" like I'll be standardizing my fleet on Loksound decoders for any future sound installations; like I've been standardizing them on TCS decoders for motor-only installations. I can live with that. I'd still like to try a TCS Wow! decoder one of these days though...
Well, the real thing did have this fancy air throttle thing where you could pretty much just yank it open and the power was regulated by the slip sensors so unlike some other locos you could be pretty rough with them and they'd just give maximum power at all times - but jerking a train like that would surely pulla drawbar somewhere.
There's all sorts of interesting Baldwin goodies here: http://baldwindiesels.railfan.net/contents.html
They were different which is part of why the didn;t really stand a chance against EMD and Alco.
They just added this. I love how perfectly neat and clean the engines are in manuals like this, not all oily and greasy like an actual in use one would be. ANd superman down there guiding the connecting rod out with one hand not even straining - the con rod even with the piston removed is NOT some 5 pound piece of metal.
http://baldwindiesels.railfan.net/tech/handhole/index.html
Although maybe it's still connected at the crank end, and by "guide it down" they just mean keep it upright so it doesn't fall against the cylinder wall.
rrinker richhotrain Here is a YouTube link to the Bowser V-1000 with Tsunami sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwyhKi7j60 Rich Yup, that one is the older one with a Tsunami all right, you can clearly hear the prime mover 10 cars back in the train but barely hear the horn when it's sitting right next to Dana. --Randy
richhotrain Here is a YouTube link to the Bowser V-1000 with Tsunami sound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwyhKi7j60 Rich
Here is a YouTube link to the Bowser V-1000 with Tsunami sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwyhKi7j60
Rich
Yup, that one is the older one with a Tsunami all right, you can clearly hear the prime mover 10 cars back in the train but barely hear the horn when it's sitting right next to Dana.
I remember having one of those in a VO-1000. Between the anemic horn and the motor-control (aptly demonstrated at mark 1:05 & 1:13 in the video), I promptly sent the decoder back to the vendor for a refund.
No, you can only adjust the VOLUMES on the Tsunami, maybe select an alternate bell or whistle.
Tsunamis most definitely cannot do what Loksound does - that is change the actual sounds loaded int he decoder. I can program one to, for example, say quotes from Thomas the Tank or play Crazy Train by Ozzie.
Or if I had the proper gear, go trackside and get recordings of some real AC4400CW's as they roll by and load them in the decoder.
Or take one that was set up for EMD 567 and turn it into a Alco 244.
You can;t do those things with Tsunami. At least not without sending it back to the company. The new features they added to the Tsunami 2? ESU added similar stuff to Loksound, except I don't have to swap out my decoders, I can just update them without even taking the shell off the loco.
AFAIK, the only other decoders currently available that have user adjustable sounds are QSI Titans. ANd has anyone even heard from QSI lately? Every OEM that was using them dropped them.
I may have read you and Tom wrong, if so I apologize, but I can adjust individual sounds in my Tsunami's (bell, whistle and prime mover), that isn't a Loksound only feature.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Thanks, Randy. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain all that.
You can update all of them, at least from Loksound 3.5 up - I changed the air pump and bell on my PCM Reading T1's to use an actual recording of the real loco when it was used for the American Freedom Train. Changed a couple of others at the club, too.
Loksound 4.0, you can change individual sound - I did that for a 4.0 I got to put in one of my RS3s, the 244 sound had some 5 chime whistle in it, and the Loksound library had the correct M3RT-1 to match the horns used on my prototype. Just swapping sounds without altering any of the 'script is pretty easy. With Loksound Select, you can only swap out the overall sound 'package' which typically includes 1 or more prime movers plus a bunch of different whistles and bells which there is just 1 CV you adjust to pick which will play with the appropriate function.
So basically, if you want to superdetail the sound and really customize things, or swap in your own recordings, or any of the really complicated stuff, you use the 4.0 (although the sound sets you download for the 4.0 have the prime mover, horns, adn bells in them already, and like I said, just swapping say the horn for one that is already in the full library of sounds you can download is actually quite easy - it's making up your own scripts and making your own recordsings that is hard). If you just want to have a decoder that can take on whatever application you want to use it for, then use the Select. Since I have a Lokprogrammer, I can get mine anywhere I cna get the best price, and it doesn't matter which loco I decide to put it in, I just load whatever sound I need. Once I get to that point again I will probbaly just have a few on hand - they don;t really go obsolete since the firmware is also upgradable - so you can add the new Full Throttle feature to the oldest Loksound Select you have, no hardware change. That's one of the main selling points for me - not all the individual sound customization, just that there is ONE part per form factor - There's a Select Direct, a Select Micro, and a Select (and the big one for larger scales). There's not a Select Direct Alco, Select Direct EMD 567, Select Direct EMD 645, Select DIrect GE FDL, etc.
I got my Lokprogrammer for well under MSRP by carefully watching eBay. They also just had a sale on them to coincide with the release of the Full THrottle feature. Well worth it - that ugly page of dropdowns for function mapping in JMRI, the one that takes even the best DCC systems close to an hour to read the full sheet on? With the Lokprogrammer that all reads in like 30 seconds. And I have a nice GUI to make the changes, just like JMRI.
Tom the website has sound files for Generation 1 thru 4. http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/ They also have a download to upgrade a V3.0 decoders to 3.5. Dunno if 3.5 supports all the bells and whistles, pun intended
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Randy,
Can you utilize the Lokprogrammer on all Loksound decoders? IIRC, you stated that the Loksound 4.0 was the only one that you could manipulate the individual sound files and/or introduce your own recordings.
The Bowser locos should have Loksound Select in them. The only way I think you can accurately tell the firmware revision is with the Lokprogrammer. That 255 sound suspiciously like an "I didn't read that CV" value. The firmware is more or less automatically updated when you connect to it via the Lokprogrammer if using the latest version of the Lokprogrammer software.
The Loksound manuals can be a bit intimidating when you look at them initially. However, they are fairly-well written. You just have to bite things off small chunks at a time.
tstageAnd, if you haven't already, download the Loksound decoder manual of the version you have in your VO-1000.
I downloaded one for my other loksound select. Look about as much fun as my old biochemsitry textbook. How do I know which version/generation I have in the Bowser so I know which sound files I can download? Ver 255
rrinkerAssuming the OP is accurate, the problem should be quite obvious. He said the horn honks when he presses F1. The Horn button on the NCE cabs is the same as F2 (except not latching).
The OP has been diagnosed with horn-bell-function button dyslexia. F1 is the bell and F2 is the horn, as Randy states it should be.
It is the BELL button that did not work, though I just got it to work for a once or twice. Stranger still I went back to see exactly what the display said, because when I previously pushed the bell button a '5' was displayed. Now the headlight turned on and off with the bell button.
Surely I would have noticed it that happened earlier. I did a reset on the controller and now all works as it should. The Russians did it or sunspots.
Assuming the OP is accurate, the problem should be quite obvious. He said the horn honks when he presses F1. The Horn button on the NCE cabs is the same as F2 (except not latching).
I do find this strange though as my Bowser Baldwin with Loksound had the more US tandard function mapping with the horn on F2 and the bell on F1. If it really is that the horn works on F2 but not the horn button, then either a setting got modified in the PowerCab settings or there is a fault with it, because if the F2 button sounds the horn, the horn button should as well. Considering a previous loco ALSO did not work with the Horn button suggests there most certainly is an issue with the PowerCab.
And if you think it's neat now - find someone with a Lokprogrammer to update the firmware to get the Full Throttle feature, plus maybe yours already has it but if ModelTrainStuff was closing it out it's probbaly older stock, but there are some fairly recent new Baldwin sound sets available from ESU to update the sounds, recorded from the still working Baldwins at SMS Rail Service. For what the Full Throttle does - see this demonstration by Matt Herman on Ken Patterson's video (skip to about 23:00 to see the demo start if you don;t want to hear them talk about it first, but also before that in the video is a neat interview with Michael Gross (the actor and a huge train guy))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ZYqjZ_L3U
Henry,
If it's too clanky for you, you can reduce the volume of the individual sounds with the Loksound decoders (vs. decreasing the overall master volume). I recently did that with a Loksound install. After reducing the master volume, I decreased the horn a tad and boosted the bell. It's nice being able to tweak the CVs to one's likings.
And, if you haven't already, download the Loksound decoder manual of the version you have in your VO-1000. They are in .pdf format and it's a convenient way to peruse the features from your computer.
Alton Junction
The new ones are Loksound. The V1000 was kind of clanky anyway, as I understand. I'll see if I can't put up a short Youtube vid tomorrow.
I didn't mean to imply that it doesn't work out of the box. I think there is a sink hole in my NCE Power Cab knowledge.
My parents met another couple from NYC in 1959 in Myrtle Beach, SC. We went to visit them on the Upper West side. They stuck me on the balcony with a pair of binoculars overlooking a rail yard. I can't say if I was looking at V1000's or not but it was the best rail faning of my life.
Henry, about a year ago, I bought a Bowser V-1000 with sound (Tsunami) in the C&NW color scheme. All of the sound functions worked perfectly right out of the box.
I have several diesels with sound, and i like all of them and all of the sound decoders. But, I have to say, the sound on the Bowser V-1000 is "noisy" and "clanky". Those are my words, noisy and clanky. Honestly, it sounds like a tin can with birdshot in it.
tstageWith steamers the tender is generally the only place that has enough room for both the decoder AND the speaker.
I am not advocating for moving the decoder out of the tender. But I do feel there's enough room in a Z-8:
for a speaker.
Ed
BigDaddy 7j43k I am constantly irritated that steam sound comes out of the tender. It's worst on big articulateds, like my new Athearn Z-8. I hadn't seen that said before. In fact there has been at least one thread about putting sound in the car behind the loco.
7j43k I am constantly irritated that steam sound comes out of the tender. It's worst on big articulateds, like my new Athearn Z-8.
I hadn't seen that said before. In fact there has been at least one thread about putting sound in the car behind the loco.
With steamers the tender is generally the only place that has enough room for both the decoder AND the speaker. Sometimes that's the case with diesels, too. I was just able to fit a Loksound Select decoder in my Con-Cor Aerotrain. The speaker had to go in the "sound" car directly behind it.
7j43kI am constantly irritated that steam sound comes out of the tender. It's worst on big articulateds, like my new Athearn Z-8.
I hadn't seen that said before. In fact there has been at least one thread about putting sound in the car behind the loco. I have an 0-6-0 and a Shay I will probably put sound in. My layout is small and will likely always remain small. In a room size layout it probably wouldn't be as noticeable.
Welcome to the sound side. I can understand both sides of this question, as many locos are much too loud and are using inadequate speakers. (sugar cube speakers are the way to go)
As many have stated before, I prefer the volume to equal distance as if I was watching the 1:1 scale. The engine roars by and quickly gives way to steel on steel.
If you get to experience a perfect tuned sound loco with one or two of Soundtraxx sound cars, again properly tuned with volume, flange squeel and clicky clack, nicely weathered through some nice scenery, it can send chills down your spine.
I have started turning the sound down on my locos. I was inspired by a new Athearn that was just TOO LOUD. I also noticed that the sound quality was better, too. When I park my Alco switcher, it sounds so good I like to still hear it. Sort of as background noise. But, again, not real loud.
I'm very fond of sound.
Except.
Turbine sounds drive me nuts real soon.
And.
I am constantly irritated that steam sound comes out of the tender. It's worst on big artuculateds, like my new Athearn Z-8.
Oh, yeah. I also like all locos in a consist to have sound. It really makes a difference. To me. A 4 unit set of F's really sounds nice.
I could have stirred the pot with the title of this thread and titled it People Who Hate Sound Voted for X or Do you like sound? or some such but I have no interest in trolling the group. I honestly did not know how I would like sound. I've read that some people, very knowledgeable people, whom I respect in this forum don't like it. Maybe the gimmick wouldn't click with me. It's often too loud. Virtualy every Youtube video is constant horn blowing and bell ringing. That doesn't do anything for me.
As a kid I was quite satisfied with what clicky clack an HO train did make. My first DCC (no sound-NCE) died, for reasons unknow. My next Loksound sound installation did not have a horn when I pressed horn on my NCE power cab. I became discouraged and did other stuff on the layout.
Modeltrainstuff had a 30% sale on Bowser V1000 and they had a SP in a paint scheme that could be easily converted to my fictional railroad so I bought one. I am still early in the build stage so in real distance I bet all my various engines haven't gone a collective 30 linear feet. I bought it, but it took a couple days for me to muster the courage to put it on the track after some misadventues with decoders I installed.
The Power Cab recognized it. The headlight button worked. It moved but no sound. F8 started up the sound and the Edit F2 sounds the horn F1 sounds the bell. The horn button works the bell button does not. bell button works. F1 made the horn honk but the Horn button still does nothing. The warm start function doesn't seem to do anything either. The momentum was too much for my limited layout but I've figured that out too. Yes it was too loud but I took care of that.
I need to read the manual again. In the sound arena there are 2 camps: those that don't like/want it and those that park the engines without it. I think I will be in the second camp.
Almost forgot. Bowser had different variations for every railroad. It's more than just a different paint scheme, it's stacks and body details. They are coming out with new RS-3's this year. I'm happy with the purchase. Did I say it was 30% off?