Installing a Keep Alive on a BLI

[Docjmp]

Hi Everyone,

Does anyone have any suggestions for installing a TCS Keep Alive on a BLI EMD NW2 switcher. It's a nice DCC switcher but doesn't do well on crossovers where I run it in my staging yard. Is replacing the board with another board witha KA built in a viable option? BLI doesn't want to share any information which rules it our for me with any further purchases. I recently installed my first TCS Wow surround kit in a Atlas Trainman that I got when I first started in HO a few years ago, and it is amazing in how it runs, sound, options, etc.

Jim

[Rastafarr]

I'd love to help you on this one Jim, but I'm in the same boat: i need to gut a BLI steamer and stick a TCS Wow w/ keep-alive in it. Gorgeous engine but picky as heck on the turnouts.

Randy? Tom? Help?

Stu

[tstage]

I just...just finished (literarlly 15 min. ago) installing a TCS decoder in a Proto 2000 0-8-0 switcher, which was a relatively simple plug 'n play installation.  All it required was to disconnect the NMRA 8-pin socket from the DC board in the tender, unscrew and replace the DC board with a TCS LL8-LED decoder, and plug the 8-pin socket onto the new TCS decoder.

Along with that I installed a TCS KA1 keep-alive module because this was one of the 1st-release Proto 2000 0-8-0 switchers which, IIRC, didn't come with all-wheel pickup until the 2nd release.  I also replaced the incandescent front & rear headlights with LEDs.

I tested everything on my programming track and the decoder, keep-alive module, and LEDs all work as expected - Woohoo!  In fact, I just timed the switcher on speed step 001 and it crawls at...0.14 sMPH.   Not too shabby motor-control; hence why TCS is my go-to default decoder for DCC installations.

Tom

[tstage]

Docjmp

It's a nice DCC switcher but doesn't do well on crossovers where I run it in my staging yard. Is replacing the board with another board witha KA built in a viable option?

Jim,

Is there a sound decoder in your NW2 presently?  Or, is it just a motor-only decoder?

If the latter then I suspect that decoders with KA-capacity will be larger and possibly not fit under the hood.  Even if you were able to add a KA1 to your present decoder and place it in your cab area, it might be a rather tight fit.

Thanks to the Loksound manual, I was able to install a homemade KA module in my older Walthers SW1 Stewart VO-660.  The cap alone was at least 1" OD and its base just barely fit inside the cab, as seen below:

Tom

[rrinker]

 Apart from cramming it all in (the switcher isn't all that big), electrically it's a no-brainer. The wires all plug in to various parts of the BLI board, so just unplug them, and likely yoiu will need to cut the connectors off, but it will be obvious where the wires go (track pickups, motor, headlight, etc) so it should be no problem to reattach them to the approriate points on a WOWSound decoder. Unless they have a smaller motherboard, you probably can't go that route, but rather will need to use a hard wired WOW decoder. The same speaker should be fine.

 If you google some of the DIY kepp alive connections, you will see how to find the proper connection point on nearly any decoder. BLI or whatever, the FIRST thing the track pickup wires connect to in the circuit is the bridge rectifier where you need to get the negative side for the keep alive capacitor from. Outside of the main chip, the main rectifier diodes are probably some of the biggest components on the board. A single bridge will be rather square with 4 leads, but most decoders seem to use individual diodes - in which case there will be 4 identical components all right next to one another as a clue. BLI won't tell you where this is - soldering wires to the decoder will void the warranty. None of the others gave up this information either - new models provide the keep alive connections so those are documented but no one tells you where to solder wires on for  keep alive for any of their products that don't have said connector already on the decoder. The info on how to attach keep alives to various decoders all came from the investigation of people like Marcus with his page on keep alives.

                          --Randy

 

[tstage]

I'm glad that wasn't the case with the TCS decoder, Randy.  I guess since it was their decoder and their KA1 module, there was nothing proprietary to hide.  In fact, it couldn't have been a much simpler installation for connecting the KA1 to the LL8-LED decoder than it was.  The KA1 manual clearly outlined where the module wires connected to a decoder - i.e. ground and 12V(+).  And the LL8 manual outlined where those specific pads were located.

Tom

[Docjmp]

Hi Tom,

Yes, there is already a sound decoder on the switcher.

[tstage]

Jim,

According to TCS the KA1 module is 0.647" x 1.052" x 0.293"(H).  Try measuring the cab of your NW2 to see if that might fit inside.  And it's only two wires to hook the module to another decoder.  With ~6" of wire, that should be plenty of length to accomplish that.  Just be sure you are soldering them to the correct pads of your Paragon/Paragon2 decoder.

Tom

[rrinker]

Hey Tom, that looks like a VO660, not an SW1  

I guess the WOW decoders aren't as big as they look. Seems smaller than a Tsunami but bigger than a Select Micro.

                            --Randy

 

[tstage]

Doh! - You're right, Randy.  Someone's asleep at the helm.   Earlier post modified with correct info.  Thanks for keeping me honest.

Tom

[rrinker]

 Have to, since I have the same one, only in a MUCH snazzier olive green paint scheme I need some more, although it may look like my railroad only bought Baldwin switchers and Alco road switchers if I keep this up.

                     --Randy

 

[tstage]

rrinker

I need some more, although it may look like my railroad only bought Baldwin switchers and Alco road switchers if I keep this up.

Could be worse scenarios, Randy...could be worse.

[BN-Steve]

This is response to the first question on this topic – could a current-keeper be installed in a Broadway Limited Imports (BLI) Paragon-2 EMD-SW1500 switcher to help avoid engine stalling when going over switches and crossovers. I have a BLI Paragon-2 EMD-NW2 switcher and this was a question I also had.  I believe the inter-workings of these two engines are the same.   From the comments related to this topic, the general consensus was a lack of space for a current keeper.  To address that question, I removed the shell of the engine.  To do this, first remove the 2 back handrails that go between the shell and the frame.  Then looking at the bottom of the engine you should observe 2 front and 2 back tabs.  Gently squeeze the shell at either the front or rear tabs and slowly pull up on the shell.  Once the shell slightly releases, do the same for the other tabs.

Once inside, I observed there is a fair amount of space above the decoder at the back.  Taking a few measurements, it appeared that a TCS KA1 Keep Alive (1.063" x 0.35" x 0.244") might fit and it does. The next issue was locating where to solder the wires.  The information of an excellent site on current-keepers (http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm) indicates that I needed to find  DC-positive and  DC-negative connection points.  For this decoder with plug-in connections for everything, it was going to require taking DC voltage measurements using a multi-meter at the bridge-rectifier diodes.  These are the square chips located near the large capacitor.  With the engine on the a powered and circuit protected track, I was looking for a two solder points on the diodes that would supply +12 DC-Volts.  Do not use to the + terminal of the large capacitor as a test point as this only supplies power to the sound system and not to the motor.  However, the other terminal of the large capacitor can be used for the DC-negative as it shares a connection to the DC-negative on the diodes.  These DC-positive and DC-negative are shown on the photo below.  (NOTE: the blue wire has already been attached to the DC-positive connection point)

NOTE:  I was not able to upload the photos.  If you desire them contact me off-line.

Once DC-Positive and DC-negative are found, the next task is attaching the blue wire of the Keep Alive to the DC-positive connection point and the black/white stripe wire to the DC-negative connection point.  This is not for the faint-of-heart as the working space is small and connection for DC-positive is very small.  Making these connection required me to use a strong head-band magnifier and a solder iron with temperature control and a small pointed tip.  A steady hand is also needed.  Realizing that the DC-positive connection would be the most difficult because of its difficult location, I started with that one.  I first tinned the connection point on the diode by placing a small drop of liquid flux on the connection point and using the solder iron set to 550-F degrees to tin the connection point using a solder with 4% silver, 56% tin and 40% lead.  This tinning should happen quickly.  If heat is applied too long it could damage the diode.  I then trimmed the  blue wire, stripped off 1/4" installation, tinted the wire with the same solder and then trimmed the tinned wire to 1/8".  Then using tweezers, I placed the tinted blue wire on the tinned diode and apply heat and the solder of the two should melt together to form a strong connection.  The connected blue wire is shown in the photo above.

Desiring to know if I have done any damage to the decoder, I placed the engine back on the track and everything still worked.  In connecting the black/white stripe wire, I used the same process but it was easier as there was more room to work.  Then back to track to see if everything still worked and if the Keep Alive was functional.  Everything worked and the Keep Alive keep the engine running for 6-8 inches on non-powered track.  The next step was securing the Keep Alive with Kapton tape.  The Keep Alive was placed fairly far back to avoid contact with the larger components on the decoder board to avoid overheating issues.(see photo below).

NOTE:  I was not able to upload the photos.  If you desire them contact me off-line.

The last step was to re-install the shell while being careful to correctly arrange the wires.  Once done , I have a much better running engine.   I hope this information is of use to someone.

BN-Steve
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