Getting ready to lay track (Kato Unitrack) for my N scale Digitrax DCC layout. I have done all this before and know how to make control panels and all the wire needed to make the control panels work. However, I have not looked very closely into alternate ways to control my layout such as using a computer vs more traditional approaches. As I get closer to actually wiring everything up, I am having second thoughts about my old school design and shifting directions by adding a computer to the mix. My primary objective would be to avoid building and wiring up the control panels. My 8'x23' layout has about 60 turnouts and I am not looking forward to all the wiring needed for a traditional control panel with various LED's and switches for 60 turnouts.
I have heard about JMRI software so I took a quick look at it and it appears to offer me some options that would simplify my wiring and eliminate all my control panels. Placement of the control panels has become a major concern of mine since I do not have a good way to fit them into the space I am working with. If I can eliminate physical control panels via JMRI, I think I will do that. Following is what I want. Will JMRI and its associated apps do the job?
My deal breaker question is can I build a control panel that would graphically display my layout and all the turnouts on a computer screen such that I can activate the turnouts and run routes via the computer? In effect, do everything that I could do via a traditional control panel. This would all be on a system run with Digitrax DCC components. Web images I have seen for JMRI (PanelPro) suggest I can do that.
I know there are many other features that I could take advantage of if I was using JMRI but they are secondary to my desire to eliminate control panels.
A related question concerns size/type of computer required to host all the JMRI and related software. If I do this, I would buy a laptop to dedicate to this activity. I am assuming that a basic (budget) laptop with a large screen, Win 10, Java, USB and wifi will do the job. Any key requirements I missed?
Paul D
N scale Washita and Santa Fe RailroadSouthern Oklahoma circa late 70's
PED,
You can build panels in JMRI using Panel Pro. You will also need 'stationary decoders' to control the switch machines.
Basically a low-end computer and an interface between the PC and your Digitrax system(like a Locobuffer USB or a PR3) are needed. The processor requirements are pretty minimal(I was running mine on an old XP system with a 2 gHz processor and 4 GB of RAM).
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
This could get expensive pretty quickly. Plus you end up with one centralized control panel.
On a layout that size, i would expect you would be waling around with your train - the usual way to run control panels is to have lots of small ones near the actual turnouts they are controlling, so as you walk around with your train you are right there to throw switches. You can do so from the DCC throttle when using stationary decoders, but with any system it's awkward switching between train running and turnout operating modes, and you need some way to remember the address of each turnout. It's doable, but not my idea of fun.
There aren't a lot of options for stationary decoders for kato turnouts because they don't work like typical twin coil motors. The Digitrax DS64 will do it, as will the NCE Switch-Kat. You're looking at $15-$20 per turnout to add accessory decoders.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I alread have everything I need for DCC operation (DS64, throttles, etc) and was prepared to set up 4 seperate control panels with LED's and pushbuttons to flip switches and activate routes via my DS64's. However, I don't really have good spots for my control panels plus the work it will take to wire everything up. Looking for a good alternative.
Well you can certainly use JMRI to create a control panel. A layuout near me has also used cheap Android tablets as remote panels for JMRI so not everything is back in one spot: http://www.quaker-valley.com/
Under the JMRI section there is a lot of information about using JMRI to make control panels. That it is an NCE layout makes no difference - he uses Digitrax for the signalling and detection.
The Quaker-Valley appears to have what I need plus a lot of stuff that I would not attempt near term but would be nice to do long term. The use of touch screens that can change the view from one control panel to another is exactly how I would like to implement it. Looks like I have a lot of research to do to get all the pieces for this puzzle via JMRI. As a engineer with a good understanding of computers, I know I can handle it but it looks like it may take some time since I am starting at zero on the learning curve with JMRI.
Follow his panel tutorials,and there are also some on RR-CirKits page. That will help you learn what JMRI can do and how to do it.
After your comments, I have looked at a lot of Youtube videos on JMRI applications and I am convinced that I can do everything I wanted and it may be easier than I expected. I think all I am missing is a dedicated laptop and then download the software to get started. I already have everything else including a PR3 for the interface to my system.
Thanks for the help.
I'm not absolutely sure, but I think the Elmhurst Model Railroad Club, Elmhurst, IL has implemented exactly what you're looking for on their N-scale layout. I forget what computer they're using, but any PC or MAC should be fine. They have multiple small touch-screen displays around the layout showing track schematic for that area of the layout. I'm pretty sure there's also a "master" where you can lay in the train route. They're using JMRI.
http://emrrc.org/nlayout.htm
rrinker Follow his panel tutorials,and there are also some on RR-CirKits page. That will help you learn what JMRI can do and how to do it. --Randy
I downloaded JMRI and then followed the tutorials on Quaker Valley site and actually made a working control panel per the tutorial. I do not think I could have done it without the tutorials. The JMRI instructions help but lack many details needed to pull all the pieces together. I wish I had discovered what JMRI can do many moons ago. Would have avoided a lot of headaches in how to implement some elements of my layout.
I am going to use the Layout Editor to make an simple/operational control panel that will get me started. I eventually want a nicer panel such as can be done with the Panel Editor but I quickly discovered that will take some time and a lot more effort to learn how to use all the features of the Panel Editor. I was able to build a CTC panel per the tutorial but making it operational is a longer term project. The software is not very user friendly and it is a tedious process. However, I will prevail.
The biggest point of disconnect seems to be the difference between system names and user names for the various items. JMRI will find stationary decoder addresses as you activate them and populat the device table. The system names are all very specific - with Digitrax and using DS64's, the DS64 address that you might operate from the throttle as, say, switch 123, will be LT123 in JMRI. For routes, it is probably best to use the option of starting them off with a 'dummy' address rather than use the first physical address as the reference, so route 10 (LT10) might be set 101 closed, 102 closed, 103 thrown.
As a JMRI newby, the main thing I am missing so far is the "Undo" button.
Yeah there isn't one. Also the concept of store and save are not the same as with most common applications.
The lack of an undo seems critical in some aspects (not for a panel though, really) - it's why I gave up on trying to do automation, I built the entire loop with all 16 blocks and realized I made 2 of the segments the same block number and skipped one. Fixing it by reassigning the sensor number absolutely did not work, it still kept thinking that segment was the former mistaken sensor number, so I ended up having to do it all over again. Only to find it still got false detections.
There's a reason I'm rolling my own virtual CTC panel in VB....
Did you try to edit the xml file directly? Tricky business and I have never tried it but that may have allowed you to "fix" your errors.
Hi
Just a quick question(s)
With a layout (room?) only 8ft wide (assuming the layout is about 2ft deep leaving a 4ft wide asile) and using DCC why are you needing control panels. Why not use manual ground throws to operate the turnouts? Also there are sometimes JMRI clinics at some of the train shows you could attend.
Ed
PS Also try Model Railroad Hobbyist website
beartracks Hi Just a quick question(s) With a layout (room?) only 8ft wide (assuming the layout is about 2ft deep leaving a 4ft wide asile) and using DCC why are you needing control panels. Why not use manual ground throws to operate the turnouts? Also there are sometimes JMRI clinics at some of the train shows you could attend. Ed PS Also try Model Railroad Hobbyist website
Perhaps its the Geek in me.
Actually, my layout is in a 26' travel trailer and it is about 20' from one end of the isle to the other. I have about 60 turnouts and I want to set up routes and change switch settings without running back and forth and looking at each switch on layout to make sure it is set correctly. Initially, all I am doing is using the JMRI to replace my contol panels (and all the associated wiring). Once I have it all up and running, my next step is to add blocks, detection, etc so I figured I would need to cross this bridge at some time anyway so now is a good time.
I have already used the JMRI Layout Editor to make a working diagram of my layout so this allowed me to have a crude replication of a control panel immediately. Next step is to use Panel Editor to make a nicer panel but I can already tell that will be a slow and tedious process. I understand the IF/THEN concepts it is implementing via Logix but the menu structure of Panel Editor is not intutively obvious. I am chipping away at it via some of the on line tutorials I have found but I am a long way from implementing some of the advance features of JMRI
PED As a JMRI newby, the main thing I am missing so far is the "Undo" button.
It's four years later, and this is still apparently missing from JMRI PanelPro (this conversation was one of the top links for the search, [JMRI panelpro "undo"]. Going to submit a feature request to JMRI... it's astounding to me how such a fundamental feature hasn't been included (especially considering how counterintuitive many of the other UI choices feel to me.)
PED My 8'x23' layout has about 60 turnouts and I am not looking forward to all the wiring needed for a traditional control panel with various LED's and switches for 60 turnouts.
FWIW what I'm doing on my layout (HO, also using Unitrack) is controlling the electrically thrown turnouts using NCE "Switch-Kat" stationary accessory decoders. It runs off track power so I don't have any separate wiring or controllers, just two wires from the turnout to the decoder, and two wires from the decoder to the DCC power. I've found that at like a crossover I can control two turnouts from one decoder.
I don't have any type of control panel, it's just walk-around. I can throw the turnouts on my radio walkaround unit.