gmpullman I would like to see a way that the valve gear can be "hooked-up" to replicate shortening of the valve motion. This would help eliminate the staccatto drone that can destroy exhaust steam sounds at higher speeds.
I would like to see a way that the valve gear can be "hooked-up" to replicate shortening of the valve motion. This would help eliminate the staccatto drone that can destroy exhaust steam sounds at higher speeds.
Just curious; Soudtraxx advertises that Tsunami2 steam does have manual valve cutoff functions (default to F5/6) that alter the chuffing. Do you find these do not work/do not meet your satisfaction (since you've installed Tsu2 decoders)?
I'm about to convert a small fleet of steamers from DC, and I'm really agonizing over going with the Tsunami2 or TCS WOW steam decoders. I only have hands-on experience with the first gen Tsunami.
Tsunami 2 marketing copy would have you believe they've added a lot and surpassed TCS WOW (surprise surprise) in terms of features, but there's relatively little actually out there about them considering they launched 6+ months ago. By comparison, it's easy to find many videos of TCS WOW steam, even the recent v3/4.
Almost certainly it is for the Athearn loco that the recording is being made of 844 - it IS the actual loco the model is made from. I'm not sure how Loksound's recording contracts with loco manufacturers work, but all the Bowser Baldwins that come with Loksound have new (well, past couple of years) recordings made using SMS Rail's operationg Baldwins, and those sound projects are available on the ESU web site for anyone to download. The turbine from the Scale Trains model is there as well as some Intermountain specific ones with special lighting and also the Bowser Alcos with air start. About the only one I don't see is the FL9 from Rapido. The turbine is particularly amazing, both the diesel hostling prime mover adn the turbine, and the automatic flange squeal and also the squeal at switch frogs - somehow all done automatically.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinkerGetting good steam recordings is a little more difficult in the US due to the few locos actually operating, and many of those only on short lines where they never run much about 10-15 mph.
Yes, very true, but I'm sure I read somewhere that Matt was making recordings of the 844 and, I hope, the 765 as well. Jason Shron from Rapido is also working closley with Matt on some of the custom recordings needed for new Rapido locomotives.
Seems like even Athearn is coming around by offering Loksound in a new release of the UP 4-8-4. (LED lighting, too!) I'm guessing this is the project Matt is getting recordings for.
http://www.athearn.com/newsletter/112516/01_GEN_FEF_4-8-4_Northern_112516.pdf
Spalato68The same does Tsunami 1. This feature is called DDE
Yes, I'm aware of this. The original Tsunami had a neat wheel slip setting, too, that I found very impressive. My only point is that in order to stay on top of the market share they have to offer a product that will deliver.
I'm not sure what "Full Throttle" can do for steam since the transmission of power is not through a generator/motor arrangement. I would like to see a way that the valve gear can be "hooked-up" to replicate shortening of the valve motion. This would help eliminate the staccatto drone that can destroy exhaust steam sounds at higher speeds.
I'm looking forward to the availability of updated sound projects for steam from ESU.
Regards, Ed
The REAL difference is that when ESU adds features like the Full THrottle effects, you don;t have to go buy a new decoder to get it, you can update all your existing ones without even taking them out of the loco.
Clearly, at least for US prototypes, ESU has concentrated on diesels. Most of them are all new recordings made since they started the US office under Matt., Getting good steam recordings is a little more difficult in the US due to the few locos actually operating, and many of those only on short lines where they never run much about 10-15 mph. You end up kind of having to take what you can get rather than an exact recording, especially where many of the locos don't even exist as "stuffed and mounted" examples, let alone operational under steam. So you end up utilizing sound recordings made in the 50's and 60's, and no matter how good they seem to be, the quality is nowhere near what you can do with modern recording equipment.
gmpullmanWOW when I hear them dig into a grade and the exhaust picks up intensity, then with no intervention from me, the exhaust quiets down as the train gains momentum.
The same does Tsunami 1. This feature is called DDE (Digital Dynamic Exhaust), it just has to be properly set up (steam only in Tsunami 1). Look for my video above. I have demonstrated the grade by putting finger in front of locomotive. The sound change from heavy chuffing to light chi - chi is very nicely reproduced. You can also set up a high, medium and low levels for rod clank.
For Tsunami 2, I do not have it, so I do not know.
ESU until now even did not had a brake.
Tsunami 1 did not have good motor control. But Tsunami 1 can control coreless motor in my Trix Mikado, while TCS WOW cannot. On my KATO NW 2, I cannot see famous "jackrabbit" start.
I am not arguing WOW is not excellent decoder - on the contrary. I have two, and I am impressed. Gradual braking function (further development of old Tsunami 1 brake) is something completely new which was not offered before by any manufacturer, and the sound quality (real "CD" quality) is superb.
Yes, Tsunami 1 did not had horns loud as much as ESU or now WOW, but for home layout, more than enough.
Sound decoder is complicated product, and it will not deliver maximum without proper adjustment. This was possible with DC (just put a loco on track and run it), but even with non-sound decoder, you have the option of setting up the momentum, speed step curve etc. With sound option, variables that need adjustment just multiply. Sound decoder is not a hamburger – only that is perfect out of the box.
Furthermore, without proper speaker setup, even decoder with perfect sound and features will sound bad.
I also look forward to "Full Throttle" feature in ESU Steam Select, and will very probably buy one for testing. Very soon we will have three excellent steam decoders, with differences between them, but I consider every one of them high quality decoders, and could not pick one as better than the other - just, each of them has something that is maybe more interesting for particular user than the other.
Hrvoje
joseywalesDont know why some of you guys think WOW in steamer are good??
You mention that your judgement is based on listening to samples on web sites and YouTube videos.
joseywalesI think they stink!..
I politely disagree.
I installed one of the first TSU1000 large steam decoders about ten years ago in an N&W Y3. At the time Tsunami was the best sounding decoder, hands down.
I have since installed probably a dozen more Tsunami and Tsunami2 steam decoders plus maybe another dozen factory installed Tsunami diesel decoders from Athearn and Walthers. [edit] plus 4 "soundcars" and three Econamis.
So, from my first-hand knowledge, those will be the last Soundtraxx products I'll buy. My most recent was an Econami Steam in a NYC 0-8-0 and the "rod clank" sounded like a monkey banging on a tin can!
TCS WOWsound is my steam decoder of choice (I haven't tried the version 4 yet) but of the dozen or so I have installed I am absolutely sold on their sound and motor functions. Personally, it is a little awkward for me to work around the "Audio Assist" feature but it is only because I prefer Decoder Pro. Audio Assist IS a pretty neat feature I just have to use it more often to become familiar with it.
When I run the engines I have the WOWsound decoders installed I really do think... WOW when I hear them dig into a grade and the exhaust picks up intensity, then with no intervention from me, the exhaust quiets down as the train gains momentum. I love it.
I have Loksound decoders in a few steam locomotives and I'll be the first to admit that the sound projects available from ESU for U.S. steam is... pretty poor.
I understand Matt Herman is about to make available all new recordings, some from the UP 844, for the Loksound decoders. It is a simple matter for me to download the new sound file (project in ESU speak) and in less than a half hour it is installed in the existing decoder without any more effort than plugging in a USB cable and setting the engine on the Lokprogrammer track.
In summary, both TCS and ESU are excellent products. I will not bash anything Soundtraxx does but they need to up their game if they want to stay competitive.
You need to do some real world evaluations rather than base your opinions on what you heard on YouTube.
Thanks, Ed
rrinker Tsunamis have had one problem common across steam and diesl - the horns/whistles are WAY too quiet, no matter how you set the mixer. --Randy
Tsunamis have had one problem common across steam and diesl - the horns/whistles are WAY too quiet, no matter how you set the mixer.
Or, just downright anemic sounding. The LE version that came in one of my Bowser VO-660 switchers sounded awful. And the motor-control - even after tweaking - was not anywhere as good as TCS out of the box.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
WOW has all the rod clank and so forth, even had it automatically activated by sensing the load on the motor before Tsunami2 came out with the same feature. That was shown off in some of the very first WOW videos, before you could even buy them. Tsunamis have had one problem common across steam and diesl - the horns/whistles are WAY too quiet, no matter how you set the mixer.
Dont know why some of you guys think WOW in steamer are good?? I think they stink!..Was on there site to check out there sound samples...and wasnt impressed with them...the Diesels they have are good..But man the Tsunami sounds way better then the WOW for steamers and Im very picky on sounds for a steamer..Seen a you tube video on a bigboy and asked the guy what sound system he had in it,,because you can hear the clanking and banging of the side rods...Said it has a Tsunami in it....To bad all these companys dont put that sounds in there decoders!...
The Bachmann parts website has a picture of the Berk tender PCB:
http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_68_198&products_id=1433
It has an 8-socket NMRA connector, so the easiest TCS installation, given that they don't have a drop in MB for the 2-8-4, would be a WOW101(-KA optional) with their T-harness (9-pin JST to NMRA plug) of the needed length.
I have a Bachman K4 with decoder installed in this manner (Tsunami, not TCS, but that should be irrelevant), and it's as easy as decoder installs get. I have heard that it's wise to remove the motor capacitors from the Bachmann board (labeled C1, C2, C3) when installing a BEMF-enabled decoder; I'd need to open up my K4 tender to even remember if I clipped mine or not.
According to the TCS website installation guides, your Proto 2000 Heritage 2-8-8-2s likely also have 8-pin NMRA sockets in the tender, though unlike the Bachmann they don't have provisions for a speaker, so slightly more complicated install for sound.
Hi,
for Bachmann, it seems TCS WOW is excellent choice.
For Proto 2000 Heritage, 2-8-8-2, if you can find some "old" Tsunami (1), it can also be a very good choice. Maybe somebody will offer a Heavy Steam version for atractive price, considering the fact it is an "old" decoder.
Well, in Proto 2-8-8-2, this Tsunami can really perform. The trick is that in this particular locomotive, Tsunami 1 can drive it without BEMF (CV 212 = 0). If BEMF (motor control) is switched off, the "DDE" effect that Tsunami offers will excel, because Tsunami 1 likes when BEMF is switched off (you will find that in Tsunami manual).
If you go further, and select a good speaker, and build an airthight baffle, you will, after careful DDE related CV setup, be rewarded with excellent sound. In fact, this step should be done in any case, regardless which decoder is installed - decoder is just a half of the story, the other half is a speaker setup. By "speaker setup" I mean speaker and baffle. The larger baffle, the better.
How old Tsunami can sound in Proto 2000 Heritage 2-8-8-2, see here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFSY6rWBHw
Btw, TCS WOW is really excellent, hi-tech decoder, but it does not like old 3-pole or coreless motors. It has "automatic", non-adjustable motor control, which performs wonderfully with modern, 5-pole motors.
Regards,
tstage So, the motherboard is optional and is just for a convenient interface to PNP the decoder?
So, the motherboard is optional and is just for a convenient interface to PNP the decoder?
In some instances the motherboard also contains the KA capacitors. Here's a link to the Kato "WOWKit" that shows the various parts not yet assembled:
https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/WOWKits/Diesel/Kato_WK.php
I just had this installed in a Kato SD40-2 at Trainfest. TCS had a special where you could buy the kit for $99 online and pick a timeslot at TF where they would give you a personalized "clinic" on installing it.
Yes, the motherboard is just a convenient connection point, converting the loco's wiring to the now becoming common 21 pin mtc connector. So, much like Loksound does, TCS only has to make a single 21 pin decoder, adn then offer various form factor motherboards to fit specific locos. They do still have WOWSound with just plain wires for those cases where there's no room for a motherboard or for those like me who just like to hard wire everything.
If you look closely at the Loksound Select Direct, you'll see that the Athearn/Atlas/Kato format board has the decoder plugged in to it. The board provides connection points and also some drivers for functions but the main chip and all the main workings are on a smaller board that plugs in to it. The TCS motherboard products are a similar solution.
I have a WOW sound decoder in a Bachmann 4-6-2, it is simply excellent. I removed the Bachmann circuit board and hard wired in the decoder. I believe it is the 101 with Keep Alive, which I highly recommend. I am not familiar with using the motherboards by TCS.
Once decoder is installed you will find there is an audio assist menu and you can scroll through various whistle sounds to find the one appropriate for you locomotive. This can be done on the main.
You wont be disappointed.
K4Kid,
You need to find out what connector-type those locomotives use in their tenders. The WOW121-Steam comes with a 21-pin connector and the WOW101- & WOW101-KA-Steam come with a 9-pin JST. These can be found here. The only difference between the latter two is that the "KA" includes a keep-alive module.
It looks like you'll also need an appropriate motherboard for fitting it into each particular tender so that you can plug the WOW decoder into it. Here's an installation pictoral of a Bachmann Heavy 4-8-2. The Light 4-8-2 and 2-8-2 Mike each use different mother boards. It appears that the primary difference between motherboards has to do with size and the location of the screw holes for fastening it to the floor of the tender.
I have never owned a WOW sound decoder but I did hear one at the NMRA National Trainshow in Cleveland a few years back and they sound terrific. I would choose it over the Tsunami/Tsunami2 because TCS decoders have excellent motor-control - right out of the box. So, there's little to no tweaking required to get a slow and smooth start. While the Tsunami steam decoders do have excellent sound, you do have to play with the CVs to improve motor-control and you probably won't ever get it to TCS "standard issue".
Keep us posted how the install(s) goes...
If I were to purchase a Bachmann 765 Berkshire HO scale steam engine, then put a WOW sound steam deccoder in it, which decoder would be my best choice?
The same situation with two Proto 2000 Heritage 2-8-8-2 engines I already have tat have no DCC decoders in them at all. This or a Tsunami for them..