Hi there. I found that some NWSL motors need a bit of breaking in. I make them spin in both directions on the workbench. I also add a bit of lube - just a tad. One thing is for sure, I would make sure the engine works perfectly in DC before converting to DCC. I use an old trainset powerpack to test my locos in DC, nothing fancy.
Yeah, I only have 1 brass loco myself, mostly because it's too rich for my blood. Theone I have is a diesel, and I just needed something to mix in with the ton of Atlas versions of that loco I have, and the price was right. The one steam loco I can justifiably run in my era, Broadway Limited/PCM was kind enough to make multiple runs of in plastic. And compared to the 'affordable' brass version by NJCB, the BLI model has BETTER detail. There is also an Overland version which is the finest of all, but if you can find one for $1000 that's considered a 'steal'. I can buy a lot of other stuff for my layout for $1000.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Randy,
Good to know that NWSL is good to go that way. They have always been friendly in the past so we will see. I am going to try to work on the loco again this week early if time permits.
And yes, I'm not a huge fan of brass for just that reason. Just can't find another decent model of the 4449! Brass was the best option.
This is also my only brass loco thank goodness. And I have a multimeter that I have gone over the whole model with. I've started with just plugging the lead into the drawbar and checking ohm reading to confirm there aren't any shorts anywhere. And so far from what I can see nothing. Which at this point I'd rather have found something because I'm nervous to go soldering stuff together again.But for initial testing, I'm going to isolate the decoder and take the loco out of the equation. I'll test the motor and everything outside the loco to eliminate any possibility. I also have a new motor from NWSL that will probably work better. So we'll see what that brings as far as issues or anything popping up.
Thanks again for the input!Mike
NWSL is also known for excellent customer service, so if it should turn out to be a bad motor, you should have no problem getting it replaced. Still the possibility of it being a mechanical issue which is why I suggest testing the motor outside of the loco. Brass is pretty to look at, but even the best of brands can have a stinker mechanically or electrically.
If you have more that you want to convert, defintely get at least a basic DC power pack (like the MRC 1370) and the $3 to free Harbor Freight multimeter to take measurements. I generally don't bother with modern models, especially if they are avaialble with DCC already, but with older stuff and definitely brass it is well worth the time to take a few measurements first to make sure everything is OK.
Thanks for the input guys. The decoder has been replaced with a user warranty which was awesome! Bryan at Streamlined Backshop provides some killer customer service for sure.
My main concern is since I have not found a valid reason why the capacitor blew....I don't want to abuse the warranty thing there and keep blowing decoders! LOL! I will look into getting a dc setup. Words I never thought I'd say again! :) And I will also check into the roller setup from Bachmann for checking into things and I like that idea for doing maintenance on the loco's and things.
It very well could be a bad motor. I'll have to see if I can't get it to spin up free and put some voltage to it and see what happens. I have had pretty good luck with NWSL in the past but we'll see. Things happen so.
I'll let you guys know in the next night or two what happens and what the outcome is!Thanks again!
Mike
I'll second/third the bad motor possibility....
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Send the decoder back to ESU (Matt Herman in PA.), they have a user friendly warranty in most cases. He helped me out greatly when I had a decoder issue.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
You should be ok with the Select Direct - they are 1.1 amps peak, not .75. I suspect you might have a bad motor, it may have a shorted winding or commutator segment. Seems next to impossible that there is any sort of short on the motor power leads with the motor installed as you described. And since you are using a Select Direct I'm assuming there aren't any stray wires hanging around that might have touched the loco while you were testing it. Maybe unhook the drive shaft from the motor if possible and test it free running, on DC. And stalled to see how much current it really draws. Even the cheap HF meter is good enough for that, using the 10 amp range.
+1 on the Bachmann rollers. They work well for me.
CG
5150WS6My only other problem is I don't have anything set up for DC. I'll have to find a buddy around that has one I can try it out on.
Hi, Mike
One of the best investments you can make for your loco diagnosis would be a laboratory DC power supply that will give you an accurate readout of the current draw. I got one a few years ago and find it invaluable for testing locos before decoder installs.
https://www.amazon.com/KORAD-KD3005D-Precision-Adjustable-Regulated/dp/B00FPU6G4E/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1480223200&sr=8-18&keywords=dc+power+supply
There are others out there anywhere from $50 to $5,000. I like the one in the link (Korad) and that's the one I bought. Again, maybe the $50 ones are just as good.
Along with the power supply a set of these test rollers is great so you can have the engine slowly rolling on the "dynamometer" while you look for any binding or mechanical issues.
There's the Bachrus ones which can get pretty expensive:
http://www.bachrus.com/runningstands.php
I found the Bachmann ones on sale and they are very well made and do a fine job.
https://www.walthers.com/display-test-stand-rollers-e-z-riders-tm-rolling-w-ball-bearings-for-powered-axles-pkg-4
With this setup you can clip your DC supply directly to the motor and let the running gear turn at whatever desired speed you want. It also makes it easy to spot out-of-round wheels or sloppy running gear. Makes diesel drive-line lubrication and diagnosis nice, too.
Best Of Luck, Ed
Randy!Was hoping you'd chime in as well as you've been a huge help in my DCC conversion process.
So here's what I have. It actually is the Loksound Select Direct. Not the micro. but looking at the manual they both have the same .75 amp limit. But like I said it's the same decoder I'm running in 15 other loco's.....can't imagine the Athearn Genesis are pulling any less amps. And the decoders do just fine.
Right now, and during all testing the decoder is outside the loco. The wires are soldered directly to the + and - leads on the motor. The motor itself is sitting on a bed of silicone which is sitting on a styrene pad thats also siliconed in. No screws are holding the motor or the motor pad in. The Daylight loco shell is off as well as the tender. The tender does pick up one side of the track and transfers it to the drawbar and into the loco. I have confirmed that there are no shorts or no touching parts in this process and have redone the seals and plastic bushings between the drawbar screw and the tender and the frame of the loco. The other pick up is just under the cab of the loco, right in front of the drawbar.
I think what I will do is isolate everything. I think I'll start by putting the - lead of the decoder directly onto the tender. Then leave the tender unhooked from the loco so that it eliminates any chance of a short there. I also might take the motor off although I'm positive there are no shorts or nothing is touching the can. But to be sure I will pull the motor off. Maybe insulate it will some closed cell foam just so I can leave it hooked up to the gearbox.
I think I am going to order another motor that is rated at .75 only because I don't want to have to take any chances of running the loco hard and blowing anything. My fault for not checking first. And the real loco pulled 16 cars or something crazy so it will be working!
I've tried to leave all the tops of the loco and tender off to eliminate any metal on metal contact. But something is just not right. I'll play with it some more tomorrow and see what I can figure out.
Thanks guys for all the input. Appreciated!
Capacitors blow for 2 reasons: too high a voltage, or wired backwards. I dounbt it was placed on the board backwards, but it's possible that this was unrelated to any other issues. But I doubt it. The fact that it runs slowly with either decoder makes the install or wiring suspect.
That NWSL motor should have both brush wires isolated and in no way touching the frame, but it might be rubbing somewhere. How are the wires run to the motor? I assume you have the decoder in the tender and wires running between then two. Don;t forget the standard wiring of most brass locos has the tender pick up from one rail and transfer that to the loco via the drawbar. However, reversing the wheelsets, or missing the insulation on the drawbar would be a short across the rails and not blow up the decoder.
You might want to use the standard Loksound and not the Micro, to get more than .75 amp peak capacity. If the loco runs freely it should rarely see the full stall current but it's not good to exceed the decoder rating on a regular basis like that. There should be plenty of room for a regular size Loksound instead of the Micro.
Researching I'm wondering if that motor isn't too much. I'm going to keep looking though. Just didn't think .85 on a .75 limit was enough to pop caps?
Thanks Mark I will try that. I have really gone over the whole loco looking for any type of resistance at all and haven't found even the slightest amount. I was pretty careful to replace all the worn out washers and bushings knowing I was going to be putting DCC in it.
And it does run smooth as glass. I rebuilt the gearbox and all the wheels and checked bushings and everything. Making sure to lube everything with white lithium grease and I have cycled the running gear perfectly by hand and don't feel the slightest bit of resistance.
My only other problem is I don't have anything set up for DC. I'll have to find a buddy around that has one I can try it out on.
The one thing I did see. My Loksound select decoder tops out at .75 amps but the motor is rated for .85sa. I'm sort of understand regular amps vs stall amps but not enough to know if that .10 will be enough to send a capacitor flying like a bottle rocket.
I'll double check the loco for any slight shorts anywhere and try again. I'm just pissed and don't want to keep blowing decoders as you can imagine. Could get expensive quick. :(
Thanks again for the input,
First thing I always check when converting brass engines .... how does it run on DC ? No binding and smooth ? If it runs great, do a quick current stall test to make sure the decoder can handle the current load.
Using your DC throttle, place a current meter in series with one of the track leads. Hold the motor / wheels so they won't turn and turn the throttle up to 10 to 12 volts and observe the current draw. It shouldn't exceed 1 to 1.5 amps.
If you are still good at this point, proceed with the decoder install. If you then, still experience very low speed - you probably have what would be called a weak short. A direct short is zero resistance between opposite polarites. A weak short will have some resistance, but not enough to read as a short, but enough to cause a higher than normal current load on the decoder.
These can be a b**** to find on brass steam. Worn insulation is usually the cause where it's not worn through, but so thin it's starting to conduct. Even a single thin strand of stray wire barely scratching a surface can create a weak short. Even the brake shoes on the drive wheels (if they are brass) can be just skimming the wheel surface.
Go over the engine with a fine toothed comb looking for any and every thing that could possibly be suspect.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
So I'm not new to converting loco's to DCC. I've done probably 20 of my locos and have a pretty good system down that's good, clean and reliable. But all of those are modern locomotives with lots of injected molded plastics.
I'm working on getting my Brass Daylight converted over but am having some issues. I started with a Tsunami and am converting everything over to Loksound because I feel they are just a better designed decoder. But I experienced the same issue with both the Tsunami and Loksound.
I tested everything with a multimeter. Everything is isoltated. I have negative coming from the tender and positive from the locomotive. No shorts or anything like that.
I was up and running with all working. Sound, lights and motor. But the motor would only do a very slow speed. Say a scale 5mph. So I yanked the Tsunami and put in my Loksound. Same issue. But as I was messing and messing around trying to figure out why the motor speed was slow it popped a capcitor like a firecracker out of the decoder and shot it literally across the room like a rocket.
Do you guys think this could mean the motor is trying to pull to many amps from the decoder? The motor is a NWSL 1630-D and is rated for 12v at 12,000rpm and a .85SA.
I know size doesn't have anything to do with anything(in electronics at least) :) but I have Athearn Genesis motors which are considersably bigger than this motor is that run all day on the same decoder. I would think they would be drawing wayyyy more amps thank this NWSL? But maybe I'm missing something here?
Any thoughts?