10 Volt transformer installed, measured DCC is 14.1 Volt. Everything runs great :-)
I would have a hard time until I would have changed the transformers because I run the electronic of the layout since many years unchanged. All other DCC sound and none sound decoders run happy. Your insisting on too high voltage was badly needed. Thanks a lot!
Reinhard
If you have a bridge rectifier that can easily handle the current - just keep that and don't spend the money on the 10V transformer. 14 volts it right in line with the other various DCC systems on the HO setting. Since it's on the input side, no specail high speed diodes are needed and since you've proven it works...
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I got an idea how to test and proof the over voltage theory while the 10 Volt transformer is on order and expected to arrive tomorrow.
I put a bridge rectifier circuit with a jumper between +/- temporary in one 12 Volt AC line feeding the Intellibox. That puts two anti parallel diodes into the AC line and reduces the voltage by 2 * .7 = 1.4 Volt.
The measured DCC drops below 14 Volt and the Paragon sound decoders are happy as they can be !
Looking forward to get the 10Volt transformers tomorrw.
I agree with your calculations. I am currently feeding 12 AC into the Intellibox and "measure" 16.4 DCC at the track. There are for sure some loose ends.
But the behavior of the Paragons when the DCC voltage is somehow lowered makes me believe the voltage is in a critical area with unstable results. Looks like the Intellibox produces unusual high DCC voltage out of 12 Volt AC.
I read this evening in a German forum that BLI locos with Paragon decoders are banned from the group's layout because 16Volt can fry and 18 Volt will fry them.
I did always prefer lower voltages if possible. This might be a good reason to do a step in the right direction. In case of failure are two transformers cheeper than two scraped Paragon decoders replaced by two Tsunami 2.
The transformers shall arrive on Thursday. I will report Thursday night first results.
Here's the key - is that really a transformer, feeding AC to the system, or is it a DC power supply? If it is AC, feeding 12V AC in to a full wave rectifier with filter results in 15V DC, which should give you around 13.5-14V on the track and be fine. Depends on the circuit design of the Intellibox booster. 9V would be OK for Z or N scale, but a bit too low for HO (though so many locos go way too fast it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing). 15VAC in, would give you 21 VDC after filtering - less a volt or two for the diode drops in the drive transistors and you're still near 20 volts on the rails - that's too much.
Now, many meters will actually read fairly accurately on DCC - the cheapy ones often better since they have absolutely no RMS calculation built into their circuit, so it reads a proper average, which is the correct voltage for a square wave. Basic RMS meters calibrated for sine wave AC will return the biggest error. A True-RMS meter generally has calibrations for sine, square, and triabgle waves and might return the correct value but few are designed to work at DCC frequencies. I have an old Fluke 8060A that was designed for audio engineers and so works at frequencies to about 25KHz, but my new Bryman BM235 is only good to 100Hz.
Thanks for all the help.
In my conclusuion do I have a voltage problem. My other decoders are more greatful but I am at the upper limit.
9 Volt sounds quite low (9 * 1.41 = 12.69V) but a 10 Volt transformer with 14.1 Volt input to the DCC controller sounds good. I ordered two of them (one for the booster) and hope to solve the problem.
I will come back and let you know.
Otherwise get Paragon sound decoders a top place on the black list and the SW1500 get Tsunami 2 decoders.
Might not be any help but my NCE Power Cab uses a 13.9 vdc wall wart and my cheap Harbor Freight digital multimeters show 13.6 vac.
My Scope shows about the same and no spikes.
The decoders put out about 12.4 vdc for lighting. There is about 1.4 volt drop in a decoder.
The club NCE five amp power pro shows about 13.6 vac. The club did not mess with the voltage adjustment.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
The problem is that I do not know the real voltage because the usual digital meters are not very good measuring DCC signals.
Uhlenbrock sells the Intellibox 2 with a transformer suiteable for H0 and N scale. The transformer has a 12Volt and a 15Volt output. The 15Volt end up far to high and unsual is the N scale 12 Volt used for all scales.
That sounds like the voltage is ok but wait ....
The Paragon runs "better" when the idle voltage is dropped by another Loksound engine. The Pargon behaves also better on the programming track in not programming mode. It has 0.5V less voltage. Decoder Pro puts 11.7V on the track out of a 12V DC power supply and Paragon works fine. That sounds like a lower voltage could cure the problem.
The next lower transformers available are 9Volt. Is that what you use in the US to get about 12 Volt? I assumed 9 Volt is used for Z scale motors. I am afraid some other decoders might get in trouble with 9Volt AC?
ps. The effect of "inter decoder communication" might be caused be a comon voltage up ur down switching both decoders on and off in parallel. Another indication to look at the voltage.
pps. Resetting CV8 = 8 and running with address 3 changed nothing
That's a bit high (most US DCC systems put 14-15V to the rails, exception was the Atlas Commander (Lenz Compact) which put over 18V to the rails using the suggested transformer, which is WAY too high for HO scale), but not absurdly so that it should cause problems.
There's no mechanism for communciations between the decoders, I don;t think the Paragon decoders even support Railcom. You aren't using Railcom, are you? The cutout stage when the command station listens could affect decoders not designed to support it. Even more strange is that adding the Losound engine makes the Paragon ones suddenly behave. There's certainly no interaction mechanism between Loksound and BLI.
Are there maybe overlapping addresses, or the same address selected on multiple throttles? What if you reset the Paragon locos and run oen on address 3, does it eventually stop like before? Or make one address 123 and the other 456 or something, just as a test.
The Intellibox 2 is running at a 12V transformer. That is the recommended setup for N scale and is fine for all other H0 decoders I use (about 250).
I measured the track voltage idle and with the Loksound engine on the tracks. The difference is 30mV (0.03V). That is not a high running idle voltage.
It is 16.4V. Measured with a simple digital gauge in AC position. Don't know what it is really. The Intellibox 2 has no option to adjust the voltage. I would need another transformer.
Any Soundtrax, Loksound, QSI etc. had never any problems. Is Paragon 2 known for more strict voltage requirements?
I would agree with Jacktal in checking your track voltage to make sure it's not too high. It should be in the 13-15V range. If the motors or decoder as getting hot then that's not good.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
The first thing I'd check is track voltage,it may be a little too high.
I got my very first BLI SW1500 (CSX) with Paragon 2 sound decoders.
Both engines turn dead after some minutes of operation. No movement, no sound and no lights. The hoods are hot and the locos return to live ofter 10 minutes cool down and a power cycle. Still somewhat hot will they shutdown within less than a minute.
The sound is tuned down to "15". The amplifier should have no stress.
I assume both Paragon 2 sound decoders have thermal problem.
But there is another disturbing symptom:
When engine 1 and engine 2 are both shut down and both engines come back after some time and engine 1 shuts down again after some inches of movement shuts engine two (without moving) down too (lights go off). It looks as if they are somehow communicating. Very strange.
An even more strange observation:
When both engines are shut down they will wake up immediately when I add another engines with Loksound decoder on the tracks. Somehow do the Paragon 2 sound decoders interact with each other, the Loksound decoder and the Intellibox II. The Intellibox 2 does not show any problems or shortage.
Is that a known problem (could not find it but some intermittent decoder problems)
ps. The 3 out of 8 axles are way out of gauge :-(