I have just recently gotten into DCC, with a Bachmann Dynamis system ($65 on ebay, can't beat it) and now have 4 DCC equipped locos, including my first with sound that I just installed today. I reall, reealy like sound and will be doing all sound from here on out. What I don't like is the complexity of programming DCC decoders. It seems very non-21st century to me, and my 6 year old son who I claim to be building the layout for doesn't really care for the DCC controller as he has grown up with iPads and smartphones and it is very clunky in comparison. I imagine other systems would be similar.
Today while browsing the the web, I came accross the RailPro system, and my first thought was that this is what DCC should be.
So my question is for people who have used both, which do you prefer? I am not very far in to DCC, maybe $200, so $$$-wise switching isn't that big a deal.
The sound decoder I installed today is a Loksound Select V4.0, into a Proto2k SW9/1200 (I know, it was a terrible choice for my first install, but the results were phenominal). The sound is awesome, and the motor control is incredible. How does RailPro compare? And what does the future look like for RailPro as far as longevity?
There are no HO scale MRR clubs around me that I am aware of (Austin, TX), so that is not an issue. Heck, there is only one hobby shop left here that sells trains.
I have no experience programming with the Dynamis system. Does it give you any prompts to walk you through programming - albeit sound or non-sound decoders? Programming with my NCE Power Cab still takes some button-pushing but the buttons are are clearly labeled and intintuitive.
Decoders - sound or non-sound - are crammed full of features you can opt to choose or not choose. If you want a particular kind of whistle, bell or horn or special light-effects (e.g. ditch lights, Mars lights, strobes, etc.) then you have to read the decoder manual to know how to access your decoder to turn on or off those features with the DCC system you are using. With DCC you can get into it as light or as deeply as you want.
Again, I don't know how the Dynamis is to program with but the Power Cab is pretty straightforward.
If your son has grown up with iPads and smartphones, there is software that can be downloaded so that you can use either as a throttle on your layout. One version uses bluetooth with it's own decoders. It's in its infancy but features are continually being added regularly. Another version can be used with your current DCC system and decoders, alough I'm not sure how it works with the Dynamis. Other folks who are more qualified can answer that question.
I prefer hand-held throttles over smartphones because I don't have to continually look at the screen to change speeds or to operate the bell or whistle. I know where the button is on my throttle and can pretty much do all that one-handed and without looking.
But...to each his own. And that's the beauty of this hobby of ours that there are features and avenues that appeal to a variety of likes and preferences. I'm sure others will chime in on how DCC compares to RailPro.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Dynamis is fairly capable, although it is a stripped down reduced feature set version of a system ESU no longer sells - effectively a dead end. Not having used one, I can't comment on the programming, but the whole system seems rather cumbersome, with the fairly large hand held unit and the requirement for more or less line of sight to the IR base. Other DCC systems such as NCE and Digitrax have multiple throttles, fancy ones with all the buttons for programming as well as simple ones with a knob and a direction switch to just run trains. Plus the option of using Android and IOS handheld devices as throttles via the free JMRI software. The features offered this way are similar to RailPro in that you cna scroll through roster pictures of your locos to select one. This is something common on European DCC systems but has always semeed like a more difficult way to me - maybe for the non-readers, although it does make sense in European modeling where locos do not have nice 4 digit or shorter numbers. In the US, where practically every railroad used a 4 digit or shorter number, it's just as easy or easier to use the cab number as the selection address instead of a photo of the unit - especially when you have say 5 F units in the same paint scheme, differing only by cab number. Key the number into the throttle and go, no scrolling through images.
As you've seen, Loksound has very good sound and excellent motor control. RailPro has some sounds but thus far not the variety that is available for Loksound or other DCC sound decoders. They seem to always be adding more, maybe they will eventuially catch up.
Ring seems to be a solid company (but then again, so did GM). My concern is that all these various systems are not compatible with one another, leaving you (at the present) stuck with a single vendor system. With DCC, you could replace the Dynamis with another brand system and your locos would all continue to operate just as they do now. Not so with RailPro or any of the current competitors. Pre-DCC, there was the Lenz Digital system, which became the baseline for NMRA DCC because Lenz gave up their patents. All the other command control systems at the time have drifted off into obscurity. Some of them were better than what Lenz Digital offered at the time, but DCC has since grown and added features. What happens if/when a direct radio standard is established? Once you can buy that nifty handheld from any one of several companies, and use it with loco receivers from any of several companies, where does that leave RailPro, unless Ring becomes the Lenz of direct radio? There is at least one other system out there today that sends stnadard NMRA DCC packets, but via radio direct to a receiver in the loco instead of through the rails. You use whatever DCC decoder you want with their receiver in the loco, thr protocol is NMRA standard, only the transmitter and receiver modules are proprietary at this time.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I have both DCC and RailPro. I have too much money and time invested in my DCC system to just rip it out and start over. So I run my RailPro locomotives on the DCC system. The only thing that RailPro uses from the DCC system is power from the rails. Everything on RailPro system is radio control directly to the locomotives. Radio control is extra on all the DCC systems I am aware of.
You are correct, RailPro is everything DCC should be. There are no addresses to keep track of, no CVs to program, no clunky multiple unit programing, and sound is part of the decoder, not an add on like some systems. Even sound is easy to set up. Your 6 year old son should take to it like a duck to water.
You can check out the RailPro forum here.
Software upgrades for your RailPro equipment are downloadable from the net, and easy to install.
If you do find a club and they are DCC, your RailPro engines will run on it.
I have way too many engines to do a complete conversion. I just wish I had found RailPro before I started with DCC.
And, this is a big plus, RailPros customer service is the best. Getting your questions answered by the owner is awesome. No other DCC system comes close.
Check the Bachmann forums. They sell a smartphone system.
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,31067.0.html
Also.
http://bluerailtrains.com/
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I have read of some who use the Dynamis and it is ok. The EZ Command is the pits.
In the link I provided about Bachmann, there are forums and Bachmann reps and users of the dynamis.
Also, today many use the below for easier programing.
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/community/clinics/NMRA2008/DecoderProClinic2008.pdf
All the problems people have had with DCC over the years kept me away from investing in this system. People are still having the same problems as they did 20 years ago, this old technology is as good as it is going to get.
Three years ago I discovered RailPro and took the plunge, a great decision. In that time I have had no issues of any kind, just pure enjoyment. This system is so easy to install and operate, no CV's, no test tracks, no head scratching programming. Consisting locomtives can be done in seconds, locos don't have to be lashed up to each other, they can be placed anywhere in the train and they run perfectly together. Price is comparable to Radio operated DCC systyems. Last week I got my CI-1 device from Ring Engineering that turns my laptop into another radio controller with the same format as the hand held one. All for $40.00 bucks.
I have never owned or operated an DCC system but I did run my RailPro loco on a DCC layout without any problem. Again, RailPro is the system that every other should be.
The other Mel
Rich, you shouldn't need a third party interface to make programing easier. It should be easy out of the box.
With a lot of locos, it does help a lot. Many in various forums I belong to love it. Ever reprogram a bunch of locos at one time, accidently. Some have.
I use the NCE power Cab right out of the box with no issues but I am not a complainer.
DCC programmign is only complicated if you make it so. There is nothing that NEEDS to be set other than a uniwue address, once again usign the cab number, which is already printed on the loco so there is nothing to memorize. No one has yet answered me on how you handle the selection with these whiz-bang picture controllers when you have multiple of the same loco. I have a dozen Alco RS-3s. They're all green. They all look pretty much identical (I can tell some are Atlas/Kato, some are Athearn, some are MDC, but to the casual observer - they are the same). Only thing different is the number on the side of the cab. How am I supposed to see the little number on a picture of an RS-3 on my controller? Better yet, why shoudl I have to push a button or turn a knob TWELVE TIMES to get to my loco when I can press 4 buttons on my DCC system and that's it? Sorry, but 4 buttons trumps 12 any day. These picture based things are great for the 'fun' modeler who has a dozen different locos, each a different road name, as opposed to an operator with fleets of the same kind of locos, because there is only one Sante Fe F unit, one Union Pacific Dash-8, one Conrail SD40-2, etc. Pictures there are easy, although I still say it's way more button pressing and knob turning to scroll through pictures of a dozen or more locos when you could be pressing mo more than 5 or 6 buttons worst case.
ANd that's something I do CONSTANTLY, every day, several times per operating session. Programming? Once and done, it never has to be touched again. Where does it truly get complicated? When trying to remap functions? Because you can't begin to do what most DCC decoders can do with RailPro. But you don't HAVE to do it. It's something that's there though, shoudl you WANT to do it.
hirailer22 All the problems people have had with DCC over the years kept me away from investing in this system. People are still having the same problems as they did 20 years ago, this old technology is as good as it is going to get. Three years ago I discovered RailPro and took the plunge, a great decision. In that time I have had no issues of any kind, just pure enjoyment. This system is so easy to install and operate, no CV's, no test tracks, no head scratching programming. Consisting locomtives can be done in seconds, locos don't have to be lashed up to each other, they can be placed anywhere in the train and they run perfectly together. Price is comparable to Radio operated DCC systyems. Last week I got my CI-1 device from Ring Engineering that turns my laptop into another radio controller with the same format as the hand held one. All for $40.00 bucks. I have never owned or operated an DCC system but I did run my RailPro loco on a DCC layout without any problem. Again, RailPro is the system that every other should be. The other Mel
How many locos do you have? How many will railpro support?
Randy sumed it up, large fleet, pictures don't work.......
Sheldon
With RailPro, the decoder has the address built in. The controller detects the new device (when told to) and adds the loco to the locomotive selection page. You can then give it a name or number that you prefer.
Turn a knob twelve times?? Not on my RailPro system. Don't know where you came up with that. I just press the Locomotive Icon, select the locomotive I want, then run it. Two buttons and a speed control knob.
SouthPenn With RailPro, the decoder has the address built in. The controller detects the new device (when told to) and adds the loco to the locomotive selection page. You can then give it a name or number that you prefer. Turn a knob twelve times?? Not on my RailPro system. Don't know where you came up with that. I just press the Locomotive Icon, select the locomotive I want, then run it. Two buttons and a speed control knob.
Again, how many locos do you have? How many does railpro support? I have 130 locos, and takes about 70 of them for one opps session.
Quote
"How many locomotives and handheld controllers can be used at the same time?
There is no limitation on the number of locomotives you can have on your layout. The handheld can have hundreds locomotive pictures loaded into it. For each handheld controller you have you can set 24 locomotives in motion. You can be driving 24 trains with a single handheld. You can run any 24 of the over 100 locomotives loaded into a handheld controller. If you have 24 locomotives in motion with a single handheld controller, than you would need to stop one locomotive to put another in motion. If you have a second handheld, you can run 24 more trains for a total of 48 trains running at the same time and so on. It would be normal for all handheld controllers to have all locomotives on the layout loaded into them so any user can run any locomotive. The limit of 24 locomotives per handheld in motion was selected because we do not expect any one user to be able to keep track of that many trains at the same time and therefore is not a limitation at all. There is no limit on the number of handheld controllers that can be used. With 40 handheld controllers the response time should be just about the same as with one controller. As you get over 40 the response time may or may not slow down. Our Direct Radio is much faster than the DCC signal so RailPro's response time will be much better than any DCC system."
More information here.
About 18 months ago I threw out my Digitrax system and bought a NCE Power Pro radio system. ( a 10,000% improvement ). I recently bought the RailPro system. I have over 60 locomotives, but I only have RailPro in 14 so far.
SouthPennTurn a knob twelve times?? Not on my RailPro system. Don't know where you came up with that. I just press the Locomotive Icon, select the locomotive I want, then run it. Two buttons and a speed control knob.
Yeah, if the loco you are selecting happens to be on the first page, it only takes two touches to select, but what if it's on page 8 (Tap on the loco to go to the first select loco page, next, next, next, etc..., oh there it is!, tap on loco to select)? If you have a few dozen locos or more, it can take a lot more than two touches. With most DCC systems, it will never be more than six (for example: 'LOCO', 4 digits, 'ENTER').
So if you have 130 locos in the controller, how do you find a specific loco, how many locos are on one screen?
Next question:
If I have four locos consisted together, and I park the train for the night, and turn off the system, are they still consisted when I turn the system back on?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Next question: If I have four locos consisted together, and I park the train for the night, and turn off the system, are they still consisted when I turn the system back on? Sheldon
The locomotives stay in the consist untill you remove them. Shutting the power off has no effect.
All my RailPro locomotives are in permanent 4 or 5 unit consist. There is no speed matching or special addressing. It is all taken care of in the decoders and controllers, automatically.
South Penn, thanks for the answer, that is a good feature.
130 locos, divided by 6 locos per page, I would have 22 pages to sort though........
I have no interest in onboard sound.
Understand this guys, I think direct radio is a better approach to command control, and for what I know about it, Railpro is a good system. My questions are to understand if it would ever fit my layout goals which right now is advanced DC cab control with Aristo Radio throttles.
I will admit, I don't really like the picture screen approach. I don't use a smart phone, I reluctantly use a tablet for work, I am older and have eyesight issues with small stuff like that up close. My general vision is very good, but up close and small like a smart phone is a problem.
I have no interst in onboard sound in HO, sound quality too poor. I think its funny how guys worry about the "correctness" of sounds that are so poorly reproduced in the first place. If I was going to have onboard sound, fairly "generic" sound files would be just fine.
When it comes to new technology, I think the only thing a person can really do is operate it to see if it is right for them. Listening to comments often gets a bit misleading.
Comments almost always tout the convenience of the new tech compared to the old.
And they usually start off with the phrase..."All you have to do is....." I've noticed with many new things, the part after the "is" isn't really that convenient.
I'm also wary of when comments say..."You can.." ...touting new tech's features.
Well, with my old DC system, "all I have to do is" flip a few toggles and "I can" run multiple trains.
New tech usually just replaces the inconveniences of an older system with the inconveniences of a newer system. Its just a matter of which inconvenience a person prefers.
I use my phone for talking, texting, or emailing. Its a tool dedicated for communicating with people. I like dedicated tools, and find that nondedicated, more universal tools are ultimately less convenient.
Smart phones are like pliers. Sure, pliers will loosen a hex nut, but if I really want to do the job correctly, "all I have to do" is get off my butt and go fetch the proper tool to do the job instead of just using what's conveniently nearby.
The OP asked for comments by people who have used both systems. I have not, so I can't compare. The only thing I can do is compare comments about each of the technologies, and they both sound about the same to me. Both have their conveniences and inconveniences it seems.
- Douglas
Doughless When it comes to new technology, I think the only thing a person can really do is operate it to see if it is right for them. Listening to comments often gets a bit misleading. Comments almost always tout the convenience of the new tech compared to the old. And they usually start off with the phrase..."All you have to do is....." I've noticed with many new things, the part after the "is" isn't really that convenient. I'm also wary of when comments say..."You can.." ...touting new tech's features. Well, with my old DC system, "all I have to do is" flip a few toggles and "I can" run multiple trains. New tech usually just replaces the inconveniences of an older system with the inconveniences of a newer system. Its just a matter of which inconvenience a person prefers. I use my phone for talking, texting, or emailing. Its a tool dedicated for communicating with people. I like dedicated tools, and find that nondedicated, more universal tools are ultimately less convenient. Smart phones are like pliers. Sure, pliers will loosen a hex nut, but if I really want to do the job correctly, "all I have to do" is get off my butt and go fetch the proper tool to do the job instead of just using what's conveniently nearby. The OP asked for comments by people who have used both systems. I have not, so I can't compare. The only thing I can do is compare comments about each of the technologies, and they both sound about the same to me. Both have their conveniences and inconveniences it seems.
Very well stated.........
Just to clarify, you can get RailPro decoders with or without sound.
One feature I find interesting, but don't use, is RailPros power supply. It can be controlled from the hand controller. If you need to emergency stop your trains, you can send a stop signal to all the trains, or shut off the power supply.
Digitrax has that, and I'm pretty sure NCE does as well.
It was covered, but WORST CASE with DCC is you press exactly 6 buttons to select ANY loco you own. Sometimes less, if the loco has less than 4 digits in the address, but NEVER more, for ANY brand DCC system. I CAN have up to 32 'recalls' saved up, the last 32 locos I've used, but to access that requires 2 button pushes plus up to 32 clicks of the knob - I count each clicking turn of the knob the same as pressing a button. I'm not sure why I would want to push a button, turn the knob 10-20 times, and then press another button when I could just press 6 buttons and be done. Hence I do not use the recall stack feature.
Now, I don;t have as big a power stable as Sheldon (yet), but say I had 60 locos. At 6 per page, that's 10 pages on the RailPro throttle, so depending on the loco I may have to hit the page up or page down as many as 10 times to get to my loco. Plus tap on the picture, so 12 taps or button presses to select a loco, worst case. Great when it's on page 1, you'd hit the loco select, page 1 comes up, you tap on the loco on page 1, so just 2 taps, not so great when it's on page 10. With DCC, it's never more than 6 button pushes no matter if you have 20 locos or 200 locos. And when you have multipels of the same type, you're still using the same method to identify them - looking at the loco (or a picure thereof) to see the cab number, the only difference is instead of then using that number for th selection, you are using the picture with that number on it for the selection. But you aren't 'memorizing' an address which DCC has and RailPro does not.
Now if they could make it so the list was a list, without pictures, brief description and number, and I could arrange the list putting the lead unit of each consist where I wanted them, maybe 12 or 15 on a page, that could work........
I have a question that don't seemed to be addressed by the Ring Engineering web site or any other source I have come across.
While it is clear that the engine modules will operate off of DCC power, instead of the $100 Ring Engineering PWR-56 power supply, it is not at all clear if the initial setup requires the PWR-56. The same question applies to using a non Ring Engineering regulated DC supply for track power.
So, can modelers who already have good DCC or regulated DC supplies simply buy the controller and loco modules, or must they spring for the PWR-56 as well, as I suspect?
CG
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Now if they could make it so the list was a list, without pictures, brief description and number, and I could arrange the list putting the lead unit of each consist where I wanted them, maybe 12 or 15 on a page, that could work........
That is exactly what popped into my mind when I watched a video of the RailPro controller being used.
I am afraid Railpro will go the way of Crest! This is my prediction as the cost for startup is hefty.
I don't see what in Ring's documentation would lead you to believe you MUST use their power supply. Just as you don;t need to use Digitrax's power supply with their DCC system or NCE's power supply with their DCC system, you can use anything that puts out the approriate voltage with sufficient current to operate as many trains as you expect to run. If you are a newcomer to the hobby, I suspect you would be just buying the Ring supply to kep things simple.
Keep in mind, a large layout will certainly require a bus and feeder system to keep voltage from dropping at distant parts of the layout - just like DCC (and a large DC layout of the traditional cab control type). Circuit breakers would be a good idea, both to keep one derailment from shutting down the entire layout and to keep 5+ amps out of a single loco.
Then there's signallng - you will still need to break the layout into detection blocks if you want to have detection and signalling, just like DCC. Long turnout and short locos need frog power, same as any other system. Or keep alives - is there any provision on the Ring receivers for a keep alive device?